Patch 5.3 Notes

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Re: Patch 5.3 Notes

Postby bldavis » Wed May 08, 2013 2:10 am

Winkle wrote:Warbringers have around 20m hp, for it to take 30mins you'd have to be doing 10k dps.

i was thinking that too

hell if i can down one as blood in less then 10 min, as a dps with minimal kiting skills you should be able to down it faster than 30 min
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Re: Patch 5.3 Notes

Postby Fetzie » Wed May 08, 2013 3:12 am

I take about 8 minutes to kill a Warbringer.
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Re: Patch 5.3 Notes

Postby bldavis » Wed May 08, 2013 4:04 am

im prob not much more than that
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Brekkie:Tanks are like shitty DPS. And healers are like REALLY distracted DPS
Amirya:Why yes, your penis is longer than his because you hit 30k dps in the first 10 seconds. But guess what? That raid boss has a dick bigger than your ego.
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Re: Patch 5.3 Notes

Postby Bellanka » Wed May 08, 2013 7:37 am

Fenris wrote:
Nooska wrote:Thats a datamined spellchange, most likely ean error in datamining.

On the other hand,the 5% nerf to SotR seems legit :|


Likely the result of the MOAR HASTE mentality.
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Re: Patch 5.3 Notes

Postby halabar » Wed May 08, 2013 8:00 am

Nooska wrote:Thats a datamined spellchange, most likely ean error in datamining.


Nope. Apparently it was mentioned in a blue post somewhere, will try to find it.
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Re: Patch 5.3 Notes

Postby halabar » Wed May 08, 2013 8:04 am

Winkle wrote:Warbringers have around 20m hp, for it to take 30mins you'd have to be doing 10k dps.


One does not meerly stand and burn a Warbringer... unless you are a DK.

Mortal classes must genrally kite them, which of course makes things take longer.
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Re: Patch 5.3 Notes

Postby halabar » Wed May 08, 2013 8:35 am

Nooska wrote:Thats a datamined spellchange, most likely ean error in datamining.


Found it.. a Tweet by Holinka:

@3v1lc0w @scmpoez Exotic Beasts no longer has the 30% reduced cooldown and pet CC abilities have had their cooldowns increased


So it is indeed yet another PVE nerf due to PVP, and an overall BM dps nerf.

Glad I'm working on the warlock, that might get accelerated.
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Re: Patch 5.3 Notes

Postby Worldie » Wed May 08, 2013 8:55 am

Well it's hardly a PvE nerf, since all the pet abilities are used for CC or control and have no effect on damage.
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Re: Patch 5.3 Notes

Postby benebarba » Wed May 08, 2013 9:10 am

Bellanka wrote:
Fenris wrote:
Nooska wrote:Thats a datamined spellchange, most likely ean error in datamining.

On the other hand,the 5% nerf to SotR seems legit :|


Likely the result of the MOAR HASTE mentality.


Dev1:'Hey, tankadins are still going after haste and ret gear.'

Dev2:'Wait... they didn't start going after dodge/parry with that awesome buff to grand crusader in 5.2? Guess we better nerf something.'

I figure that's about how that went. :P
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Re: Patch 5.3 Notes

Postby Jabari » Wed May 08, 2013 9:28 am

Worldie wrote:Well it's hardly a PvE nerf, since all the pet abilities are used for CC or control and have no effect on damage.


Doesn't it apply to Rabid at a minimum as a direct DPS nerf?

Also, it would certainly apply to two different abilities that I use rather a lot: Spirit Mend and whatever the Tallstrider's AoE Sunder is called. :(

It actually really sucks for any of the debuff-giving pets for any fight at all with target changes - Tallstrider/Windserpent/Worm/Ravager lose a ton of their utility if they can't consistently put the debuff on new targets relatively quickly.
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Re: Patch 5.3 Notes

Postby halabar » Wed May 08, 2013 9:32 am

Worldie wrote:Well it's hardly a PvE nerf, since all the pet abilities are used for CC or control and have no effect on damage.


The way the BM talent reads, and Nooska can correct me if I'm wrong, the BM exotic talent effects speed of all pet attacks. So yeah, it would be a BM nerf.

To be fair, there are some other buffs on the PTR for hunters overall, but the changes are pulling BM down to the others and pushing the other specs up.

Ran femaledwarf.com on my gear/talents/etc, and SV is now slightly less that 2% behind BM.

The other concern is that there have been so many CC nerfs to hunters, it's really going to effect BM playstyle.

Still will be working on my lock, and seeing how that goes...
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Re: Patch 5.3 Notes

Postby Klaudandus » Wed May 08, 2013 9:33 am

I say nerf dr part of sotr more but increase its duration.
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Re: Patch 5.3 Notes

Postby halabar » Wed May 08, 2013 9:35 am

Jabari wrote:
Worldie wrote:Well it's hardly a PvE nerf, since all the pet abilities are used for CC or control and have no effect on damage.


Doesn't it apply to Rabid at a minimum as a direct DPS nerf?

Also, it would certainly apply to two different abilities that I use rather a lot: Spirit Mend and whatever the Tallstrider's AoE Sunder is called. :(

It actually really sucks for any of the debuff-giving pets for any fight at all with target changes - Tallstrider/Windserpent/Worm/Ravager lose a ton of their utility if they can't consistently put the debuff on new targets relatively quickly.


They reduced the cooldown on Rabid, but that of course doesn't help those special abilities.

Yep, it's a direct nerf to Spirit Mend, and all those timed debuffs.
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Re: Patch 5.3 Notes

Postby Jabari » Wed May 08, 2013 9:49 am

halabar wrote:
Worldie wrote:Well it's hardly a PvE nerf, since all the pet abilities are used for CC or control and have no effect on damage.


The way the BM talent reads, and Nooska can correct me if I'm wrong, the BM exotic talent effects speed of all pet attacks. So yeah, it would be a BM nerf.


Can't imagine it would apply to the pet's autoattack, but if this hits Basic Attacks (Claw/Bite/etc) this is actually a fairly substantial nerf. Especially as we're picking up lots more Crit/Haste and Basic Attacks are firing a lot closer to "on cooldown" than they used to.

halabar wrote:To be fair, there are some other buffs on the PTR for hunters overall, but the changes are pulling BM down to the others and pushing the other specs up.

Ran femaledwarf.com on my gear/talents/etc, and SV is now slightly less that 2% behind BM.


I don't mind this at all actually, provided that BM gets something in return to close the gap with Serpent Spread.

It's just that Hunters were ... not great on the overall charts last time I looked (though it's been a while). I'm more concerned about the spread between BM and Frost (for example) than between BM and SV. *shrug*
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Re: Patch 5.3 Notes

Postby Flex » Wed May 08, 2013 9:54 am

Frost's simed potential is so far ahead of what people play it at it is silly. Same with BM. May sim high but its real world performance is often worse than other specs.
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Re: Patch 5.3 Notes

Postby Jabari » Wed May 08, 2013 10:07 am

Flex wrote:Frost's simed potential is so far ahead of what people play it at it is silly. Same with BM. May sim high but its real world performance is often worse than other specs.


Any idea why? I don't have a mage, but I can understand those running low "IRL" - small position adjustments kill spells in progress, and the level 90 talents all look like a total PITA to manage optimally.

I don't get why BM would be substantially lower than sim - it's a relatively easy spec to play, and you can move around all you want and not lose dps. The only thing I can think of would be if the pet is losing contact with the target a lot - maybe Blink Strikes would help with that a bit. *shrug*

Hmm, maybe because BM has a lot of instants and there's more "gaps" between shots on those than chain-casting timed spells?
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Re: Patch 5.3 Notes

Postby Flex » Wed May 08, 2013 10:24 am

Frost and BM have a stigma of low DPS so people don't play them. Selection bias is a very real thing.

Sims have some uses, but real world DPS rankings isn't one of them.
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Re: Patch 5.3 Notes

Postby Flex » Wed May 08, 2013 10:43 am

Worldie wrote:Well it's hardly a PvE nerf, since all the pet abilities are used for CC or control and have no effect on damage.


Going through holinka's twitter feed and it is basically PvE abilities have had their cooldowns reduced. CC abilities have had their cooldowns increased. Exotic Beast had the blanket cooldown reduction removed.
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Re: Patch 5.3 Notes

Postby bldavis » Wed May 08, 2013 12:23 pm

Flex wrote:Frost and BM have a stigma of low DPS so people don't play them. Selection bias is a very real thing.

Sims have some uses, but real world DPS rankings isn't one of them.

i dont play it cause i dont like the style, and unless it is leaps and bounds above surv, ill play the spec i like
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Flex:I don't make mistakes. I execute carefully planned strategic group wipes.
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Re: Patch 5.3 Notes

Postby Jabari » Wed May 08, 2013 2:34 pm

Flex wrote:Going through holinka's twitter feed and it is basically PvE abilities have had their cooldowns reduced. CC abilities have had their cooldowns increased. Exotic Beast had the blanket cooldown reduction removed.

Well, if that's the case I guess it's ok. Of course, they're going to forget about 25% or so of stuff they should reduce, but whatever. *shrug* Just surprised that the "remove blanket 30%" has been datamined but (for example) a CD change on Spirit Mend hasn't been.

Flex wrote:Frost and BM have a stigma of low DPS so people don't play them. Selection bias is a very real thing.

Not sure exactly how this applies to/answers my question. Are you saying that it's only "bad players" (relatively) that get logged in the "top 100 parses" or whatever?

I also don't know how BM in particular has a "bad spec" stigma right now - it's been top (or equal to SV) single-target hunter spec for quite some time now. *shrug* (Unless it still has the "noob spec" stigma that it did since, oh, release...)
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Re: Patch 5.3 Notes

Postby Nooska » Thu May 09, 2013 1:29 am

Exotic Beasts does NOT apply to basic attacks and autoattacks - everything else though.

As to the difference with simmed BM and actual BM - the sims clearly overvalue haste, and all the high simming results are haste builds - this does not translate into real world gain because most people will still be doing the 6 second minicycle (which is the best for most consistent dps, and with the least amount of risk of failing).

Also, the sim results for BM being thrown around all include complete heroic TF sets...

BM has had quite an amount of people switching to it (of t he imn/maxers that go to 0.01% and don't realize playstyle figures in) - and a lot of those are former MM haste addicts, that want haste to be the absolute best stat at all costs, while being used to a 10 second cycle with loads more room to use and actual priorty system (there just isn't room in the BM cycle to use actual priority, its a priority subset that gets used at specific points in the cycle)
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Re: Patch 5.3 Notes

Postby Archeth » Thu May 09, 2013 3:05 am

Jabari wrote:
Flex wrote:Frost and BM have a stigma of low DPS so people don't play them. Selection bias is a very real thing.

Not sure exactly how this applies to/answers my question. Are you saying that it's only "bad players" (relatively) that get logged in the "top 100 parses" or whatever?

Not only, but mostly. The selection bias is that there's no equal amount of skilled, competitive players parsing all three specs. Most top hunters choose to play SV/MM because they're slightly ahead in sims or because BM is "known" to be the low DPS options or whatever.

So even if BM might perform close to SV/MM in theory, the parses won't show that because people still playing BM are less competitive/geared/skilled players, and the gap will appear larger than it really is. And then even fewer hunters will play BM because according to parses, BM sucks.
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Re: Patch 5.3 Notes

Postby KysenMurrin » Thu May 09, 2013 4:47 am

Does Frost still have a higher skill cap than the other Mage specs? It certainly seemed that way in Cataclysm, more effort for less reward.
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Re: Patch 5.3 Notes

Postby Worldie » Thu May 09, 2013 5:01 am

Don't think so, it's very easy to play right now. Spam 1 button, press button 2 and 3 when they light up, repeat.
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Re: Patch 5.3 Notes

Postby KysenMurrin » Thu May 09, 2013 5:22 am

You don't have to manage your FoF charges, bank one at all times for Brain Freeze procs, weave in Water Elemental's Freeze on cooldown without wasting charges? And what about Frost Bomb?
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