patch 5.2 ?

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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Andurin » Tue Mar 05, 2013 3:44 am

Teranoid wrote:Man they weren't kidding about pacing LFR.

Full LFR doesn't unlock until April 16th.


A birthday gift for me :o

Anyone else got ACDC preloaded already? Our raid leader just announced that we`ll have Thunderstruck over the voice chat the first time we are going in ^^
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Ruldar » Tue Mar 05, 2013 7:17 am

bldavis wrote:Gold : 3:27:15
silver: 4:14:29
bronze: sub 7 hrs


It's funny that you say 3 hours. When I was leveling my warlock recently, I managed to get in an LFG BRD run that took about three hours and we killed every mob in the dungeon and did every quest, including the bank key quest. It was the most gloriously nostalgic thing I have done in the game in years.

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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby halabar » Tue Mar 05, 2013 8:50 am

Andurin wrote:
Teranoid wrote:Man they weren't kidding about pacing LFR.

Full LFR doesn't unlock until April 16th.


Yeah, their intended desire to spread it out will:

1) Help some normal raiders see the content first on normal
2) Further deincentivize the hard-cores from running it
3) Keep the casuals busy longer

But it will also:

1) Keep the casuals who are trying to catch up hopelessly behind.

My 25-man already discussed it, and we are going to just continue to push through the 5.0 raids, and work on the team chemistry. I'm sure we'll loose a few that want to bang their heads on the new raids undergeared, but we'll be better for it in the long run.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Teranoid » Tue Mar 05, 2013 9:21 am

How is it going to leave casuals "hopelessly" behind? If you're not doing structured raiding why do you need that gear to begin with or are you just in a hurry to finish it all in a week and then go back to doing nothing? They're even upping the frequency of drops in the 5.0 raids and slapping a 10% nerf on everything.

I like it. This tier will last quite a while and I'd rather not have it run into the ground and be sick of it 2 months in like I was with this tier.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby halabar » Tue Mar 05, 2013 9:32 am

Teranoid wrote:How is it going to leave casuals "hopelessly" behind? If you're not doing structured raiding why do you need that gear to begin with or are you just in a hurry to finish it all in a week and then go back to doing nothing? They're even upping the frequency of drops in the 5.0 raids and slapping a 10% nerf on everything.


Considering that the ilvl value for getting beyond the 3rd boss of the new raid is supposed to be ~500 or so based on various rumblings, getting a raid group geared up to that is going to take a while, even with the increased drop rates on the old stuff.

End result is it is really going to spread out what people are doing.

Personally I don't mind that much, but I fully expect a few from my new 25-man that's still working on MSV (a lot of new raiders, a lot of blues still) to go all nerd-rage because we aren't going in the new content yet. Will probably be a good thing, but we might loose a few good people too.

The issue is that Blizz is now spreading people across the content, after 3 tiers of shoving everyone into the same level. That's not going to go over well with everyone, especially with very new people who haven't experienced multiple relevant tiers before.

Teranoid wrote:I like it. This tier will last quite a while and I'd rather not have it run into the ground and be sick of it 2 months in like I was with this tier.


I really don't mind it myself either, I'm just being realistic about what some of the other reactions will be.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby bldavis » Tue Mar 05, 2013 9:43 am

Ruldar wrote:
bldavis wrote:Gold : 3:27:15
silver: 4:14:29
bronze: sub 7 hrs


It's funny that you say 3 hours. When I was leveling my warlock recently, I managed to get in an LFG BRD run that took about three hours and we killed every mob in the dungeon and did every quest, including the bank key quest. It was the most gloriously nostalgic thing I have done in the game in years.

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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby fuzzygeek » Tue Mar 05, 2013 9:44 am

Klaudandus wrote:I wonder if 5.2 is gonna be easier in normal than 5.0 was -- several of the fights were pretty tight in their tuning, even GC admitted erring in garalon, as an example.

but still dont see why 2 weeks between part 2 and 3, and 2 weeks between part 3 and 4.


I think the new idea is to let normal raiders beat fights if they can do mechanics, and heroic raiders get tight enrage timers.

The time lag is just stretching content. 2 weeks seems a bit extreme, unless they expect us to be in this tier for considerably longer than we were in t14.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Teranoid » Tue Mar 05, 2013 9:46 am

It's almost cringeworthy reading the R&D forums with people claiming Blizzard is treating them like "second class citizens" because they're not unleashing the entire raid in LFR today.

The ignorance of this playerbase never ceases to amaze me. This really IS the entitlement generation.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Klaudandus » Tue Mar 05, 2013 9:49 am

fuzzygeek wrote:
Klaudandus wrote:I wonder if 5.2 is gonna be easier in normal than 5.0 was -- several of the fights were pretty tight in their tuning, even GC admitted erring in garalon, as an example.

but still dont see why 2 weeks between part 2 and 3, and 2 weeks between part 3 and 4.


I think the new idea is to let normal raiders beat fights if they can do mechanics, and heroic raiders get tight enrage timers.

The time lag is just stretching content. 2 weeks seems a bit extreme, unless they expect us to be in this tier for considerably longer than we were in t14.


I sure hope so. It was annoying to die in garalon several times when his health was below 5% when he hit enrage
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby halabar » Tue Mar 05, 2013 9:50 am

fuzzygeek wrote:
Klaudandus wrote:I wonder if 5.2 is gonna be easier in normal than 5.0 was -- several of the fights were pretty tight in their tuning, even GC admitted erring in garalon, as an example.

but still dont see why 2 weeks between part 2 and 3, and 2 weeks between part 3 and 4.


I think the new idea is to let normal raiders beat fights if they can do mechanics, and heroic raiders get tight enrage timers.

The time lag is just stretching content. 2 weeks seems a bit extreme, unless they expect us to be in this tier for considerably longer than we were in t14.


Given the supposed "2-3 months" between patches, stretching out LFR to 6 weeks before it's all available is a bit interesting. Granted that the next patch won't have a new raid, but it surely will have some new faction to grind rep with.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Teranoid » Tue Mar 05, 2013 9:51 am

They said in dev interviews the fights in Throne are more about mechanics than they are DPS checks. Heroic will obviously be pushing both at the same time but they stated that you should have to swap people in if they're failing the mechanics and not so much for someone lacking in dps.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby halabar » Tue Mar 05, 2013 9:53 am

Teranoid wrote:It's almost cringeworthy reading the R&D forums with people claiming Blizzard is treating them like "second class citizens" because they're not unleashing the entire raid in LFR today.

The ignorance of this playerbase never ceases to amaze me. This really IS the entitlement generation.


Well, if you look at it from the perspective of someone who ONLY does LFR, 6 weeks before you can see it all is quite a bit of time. They really don't care that Blizz wants normal raiders still doing the old content and then seeing the new, or that Blizz wants to further discourage the hard-cores from doing LFR.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Teranoid » Tue Mar 05, 2013 9:57 am

Of course not. They only care about what they get and the hell with everyone else.

"I pay the same 15 bucks a month and god dammit I should get everything other people get and to hell with anyone who thinks otherwise because they're just an elitist who doesn't understand the plight of the casual player."

Boo.hoo.

I don't even know why this gets me fired up. It happens every patch. Guess I just hold some sort of hope that the general population will gain some shred of common sense and go "oh I see. Well that kinda sucks but it's cool I understand."

HAH yeah right.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Qeeze » Tue Mar 05, 2013 10:07 am

My prediction, the next patch will be about lore and so on, and the next raid will probably be released in August or September.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Nooska » Tue Mar 05, 2013 10:07 am

It will leave people trying to gear up hopelessly behnd, because LFR is the stated catch-up mechanism, to have an ilvl worthy of being recruited into a T15 guild (or gods forbid, trying to gear up to start raiding as a group) and be able to do more than see the first three bosse son normal (per teh statements out there from designers), you need quite a bit of gear above ilvl 500 - and considering the only gear above ilvl 500 is from T14H, T15N, T15L and the rep you gain in T15, its just a brick wall to trying to gear up. Now I wouldn't have a big issue for gearing Nooska, but so help me if I wanted to gear up either Morosin or Niisca, yikes...
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby fuzzygeek » Tue Mar 05, 2013 10:08 am

Klaudandus wrote:I sure hope so. It was annoying to die in garalon several times when his health was below 5% when he hit enrage


I'm wondering if that's the case as well. Looking at the first three fights it seems like there's still a lot of soft enrage mechanics.

Boss 1: kill boss before room turns into shit and you die.
Boss 2: kill all the things before you get overwhelmed by adds or giant dinosaur enrages and eats your raid.
Boss 3: break empowerment before raid gets AOE to death, while also dealing with ten other mechanics.

These look like fun, active fights, but I don't know that they fit into the "do mechanics and you can do boss" paradigm.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Nooska » Tue Mar 05, 2013 10:12 am

Qeeze wrote:My prediction, the next patch will be about lore and so on, and the next raid will probably be released in August or September.

Well on the 2 month cycle T16 should release in early July. Thats the summer, and the tradeoff between some people ( mainly the kids) having a lot of time, and some people bbeing away for summer holidys, make it plausible that its in augist. But that also means that we will have 4 tiers this expansion or run into the 6+ month final tier - even with 5.5 added in with story etc, we still don't have any idea when they will announce next expansion (smart money is on blizzcon), and then there is the beta which historically takes some months (The last one I had access to for almost 6 months prior to release).

So unless they are going to be going wit "mini-expansions" in terms of new stuff, I think T15 will be dragged out to at least september (3 month cycle x 2 for 2 patches) and an announcement at blizzcon with the last story patch in early december, and beta starting in early feb next year - and then hoping the beta will keep "us" occupied without a new raid tier. (Doesn't sound too exciting though)
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Flex » Tue Mar 05, 2013 11:43 am

Nooska wrote:Well on the 2 month cycle T16 should release in early July.


There will be a small patch about 3 months from now with new storylines about the Horde and Alliance, then a few months after that will be a new raid tier. So this will be about 6 months of this raid content.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby djlar » Tue Mar 05, 2013 12:11 pm

I predict yet another "legendary gem" for next patch, what about necks? I'm surprise no neck piece has a gem slot, aren't necklaces ideal for a huge gem hanging in?
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby halabar » Tue Mar 05, 2013 12:33 pm

Nooska wrote:It will leave people trying to gear up hopelessly behnd, because LFR is the stated catch-up mechanism, to have an ilvl worthy of being recruited into a T15 guild (or gods forbid, trying to gear up to start raiding as a group) and be able to do more than see the first three bosse son normal (per teh statements out there from designers), you need quite a bit of gear above ilvl 500 - and considering the only gear above ilvl 500 is from T14H, T15N, T15L and the rep you gain in T15, its just a brick wall to trying to gear up. Now I wouldn't have a big issue for gearing Nooska, but so help me if I wanted to gear up either Morosin or Niisca, yikes...


Yep, totally. As I said before, just looking at my current raid team, which still has plenty of blues, it will take quite a while to get to where everyone is 500+.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby halabar » Tue Mar 05, 2013 12:34 pm

Nooska wrote:
Qeeze wrote:My prediction, the next patch will be about lore and so on, and the next raid will probably be released in August or September.

Well on the 2 month cycle T16 should release in early July. Thats the summer, and the tradeoff between some people ( mainly the kids) having a lot of time, and some people bbeing away for summer holidys, make it plausible that its in augist. But that also means that we will have 4 tiers this expansion or run into the 6+ month final tier - even with 5.5 added in with story etc, we still don't have any idea when they will announce next expansion (smart money is on blizzcon), and then there is the beta which historically takes some months (The last one I had access to for almost 6 months prior to release).

So unless they are going to be going wit "mini-expansions" in terms of new stuff, I think T15 will be dragged out to at least september (3 month cycle x 2 for 2 patches) and an announcement at blizzcon with the last story patch in early december, and beta starting in early feb next year - and then hoping the beta will keep "us" occupied without a new raid tier. (Doesn't sound too exciting though)


Sounds about right.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby KysenMurrin » Tue Mar 05, 2013 12:49 pm

In the interviews last week it was mentioned that patch 5.3 will start to bring the story back to the Horde and Alliance rather than about Pandaria, and 5.4 would be Orgrimmar. They also said they were trying to avoid the extra-long wait between the last tier and next expansion. But the timing of Blizzcon so late in the year doesn't seem well placed for an announcement unless the gap is gonna be just as big as normal.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Lieris » Tue Mar 05, 2013 1:12 pm

Teranoid wrote:It's almost cringeworthy reading the R&D forums with people claiming Blizzard is treating them like "second class citizens" because they're not unleashing the entire raid in LFR today.

The ignorance of this playerbase never ceases to amaze me. This really IS the entitlement generation.


I see nothing has changed.

If they unlocked LFR today these same people would be making topics next month complaining about having seen all the content and being bored already. If they want to see the thunder king raid nothing is stopping them doing it on normal but if they just want to do LFR then that's their problem.

Also unless something has changed since I last played, ANYONE can make the step up to real raiding if they can demonstrate that they have made the most of the gear available to them, can write a decent application (this is still shockingly rare) and semi-decent conversational skills when an officer asks questions. They are deluding themselves if they think day one LFR is a ticket to easy catchup epics and a good guild. If a guild wants you they will gear you up on farm epics within a few resets anyway; my friend's guild is 16/16 heroic (I think I have that number right) and they recruited someone in mediocre gear a few weeks ago because he knew how to write an app, had good experience and was the right class/spec. If you can sell yourself properly it doesn't matter if you still have a few blues or whatever, it really isn't that important.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby halabar » Tue Mar 05, 2013 1:18 pm

Lieris wrote:If they unlocked LFR today these same people would be making topics next month complaining about having seen all the content and being bored already.

Agreed. Complaints either way. You can't please most of the people most of the time.

Lieris wrote:They are deluding themselves if they think day one LFR is a ticket to easy catchup epics and a good guild.


I don't think that was the point we were making.. the issue is still the work involved in catchup, assuming you don't have a already well geared group to drag you through. As I mentioned before, my raid team is going to need to do a lot before they are ready for N T15.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Flex » Tue Mar 05, 2013 1:25 pm

KysenMurrin wrote:But the timing of Blizzcon so late in the year doesn't seem well placed for an announcement unless the gap is gonna be just as big as normal.


I'm gonna guess the big things will be 1) Starcraft 2 Protoss campaign information 2) Next WoW expansion 3) Diablo 3's first expansion 4) First systems preview of Titan
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