patch 5.2 ?

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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby KysenMurrin » Mon Mar 04, 2013 3:04 pm

What they need to do for a big instance like that to work is make a few different end-boss runs (like the current "prison" and "Emperor" ones), and bring in features that highlight the boss you need to kill for the bonus on the map. Some streamlining of the instance and better highlighting of the routes on the map would help, too (there are major overlapping sections where you just can't tell which levels connect where).

You still have a huge instance you can zone into and explore in full, but when you go in through dungeon finder you get specific "missions" to particular sections.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Chunes » Mon Mar 04, 2013 3:24 pm

I was one of the masochistic few that enjoyed ST and BRD back in the day. Hell, with ST I dedicated a fair amount of time to just memorizing the optimal path through it down to the point of memorizing the order of the statues and helping the group spread out so we could activate them faster.

BRD's main issue as I remember it was just the absurdly wide level range.

I'm all for huge, sprawly dungeons as opposed to the "loot corridors" someone described above, but when you think of the attention span of the average player these days, they'd never really get into that kind of thing.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Fenris » Mon Mar 04, 2013 4:26 pm

Klaudandus wrote:We already killed the Wind elemental guy...

we could go back to space though!

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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby jere » Mon Mar 04, 2013 6:23 pm

Chunes wrote:I was one of the masochistic few that enjoyed ST and BRD back in the day. Hell, with ST I dedicated a fair amount of time to just memorizing the optimal path through it down to the point of memorizing the order of the statues and helping the group spread out so we could activate them faster.


I also loved Sunken Temple. One of my favorites. Though, the last boss was a lot more difficult as a paladin tank when you didn't have taunt.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Teranoid » Mon Mar 04, 2013 7:18 pm

Man they weren't kidding about pacing LFR.

Full LFR doesn't unlock until April 16th.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Klaudandus » Mon Mar 04, 2013 7:29 pm

Teranoid wrote:Man they weren't kidding about pacing LFR.

Full LFR doesn't unlock until April 16th.


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Holy fuck, that is retarded!
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Darielle » Mon Mar 04, 2013 7:58 pm

These dungeons lately have been bad enough with tanks that don't speak english/have never been there before/ignore party chat that I couldn't imagine sitting through "OKAY WAIT WE HAVE TO DO THESE STATUES THE RIGHT WAY OTHERWI- oh fuck it.. /leave group"

The problem with BRD is when you zone in unless you're like 57 or something you have absolutely no idea which section you're on unless you meander your way around. It's to the point where I'd rather get 2 min of questing in between being steamrolled by bored lvl 90s than sit through another run of that hellhole.


That's not a problem with the dungeon. As I said, it's from a different era. Meandering through the dungeon WAS the thing back in the day. The biggest thing about a place like Sunken Temple and navigation was that instance maps back in the day sucked (they didn't exist, you just saw the zone), and the minimap did and still sucks at handling multiple levels. BRD suffers less from that, but the wide level range, the massively long run, etc. did not help it at all.

What you're observing is the effect of LFD on top of the super-acceleration of efficiency and ridiculously short runs for loot. People complain about 20-30 minutes in a dungeon nowadays. Chuck a bit of heirlooms and the entire levelling process pretty much becoming destroyed, and a place like BRD seems pretty much out of place, but it fit perfectly back in its time, and its purpose was a lot more relevant when it still had relevance from the little things within (Onyxia questline, Black Forge/Grim Guzzler/MC rep), and so on.

If they'd put a bit of work into it, the two wouldn't necessarily be mutually exclusive (e.g., LFD puts you in a different instance where a set area is unlocked, you kill stuff and get done).

Holy fuck, that is retarded!


It keeps the idea of Normal mode being more relevant and prevents LFR people being bored with the patch by the end of April in one swoop.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Fetzie » Mon Mar 04, 2013 9:33 pm

Yeah, BRD's problem was that you started the instance at level 48-50, but if you weren't all level 57+ you weren't going to get the the end in one run. I guess the 4 hour run was a turn-off for some too.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Klaudandus » Mon Mar 04, 2013 9:39 pm

Darielle wrote:
Holy fuck, that is retarded!


It keeps the idea of Normal mode being more relevant and prevents LFR people being bored with the patch by the end of April in one swoop.


I wonder if 5.2 is gonna be easier in normal than 5.0 was -- several of the fights were pretty tight in their tuning, even GC admitted erring in garalon, as an example.

but still dont see why 2 weeks between part 2 and 3, and 2 weeks between part 3 and 4.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby halabar » Mon Mar 04, 2013 9:57 pm

Klaudandus wrote:
Darielle wrote:
Holy fuck, that is retarded!


It keeps the idea of Normal mode being more relevant and prevents LFR people being bored with the patch by the end of April in one swoop.


I wonder if 5.2 is gonna be easier in normal than 5.0 was -- several of the fights were pretty tight in their tuning, even GC admitted erring in garalon, as an example.

but still dont see why 2 weeks between part 2 and 3, and 2 weeks between part 3 and 4.


They posted about that...

Basically, the wanted to give the LFR crew 2 wings fairly early, but push the other 2 out so guilds doing normal progression would have a better chance to see it on normal first, rather than have already been farming it in LFR for weeks.

Since they are providing 2 wings reasonably early, I don't mind, it will still allow for earning the raid rep.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Archeth » Tue Mar 05, 2013 2:29 am

Fetzie wrote:Yeah, BRD's problem was that you started the instance at level 48-50, but if you weren't all level 57+ you weren't going to get the the end in one run. I guess the 4 hour run was a turn-off for some too.

That's a problem now. It wasn't a problem when BRD was relevant because you weren't supposed to clear the whole place in one run, it was more of an instanced zone to adventure/quest in so only finishing a part that matched your level, for you to return later for more, that was working as intended.

Obviously that's not how most players, especially nowadays, want to run instances.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby bldavis » Tue Mar 05, 2013 2:46 am

crap i LOVED running BRD and ST back when they were PITAs and required full 4-5 hr runs
i still prefer doing all of BRD in one go if i can...and actually miss the old ST
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby KysenMurrin » Tue Mar 05, 2013 2:48 am

For ST, I do think I'd have preferred them to remove only the basement, and not the upper level with the trolls.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Sagara » Tue Mar 05, 2013 2:55 am

I liked Lower ST as well, but only in a decent group. I wouldn't have minded having LFG only cover the top floor if we had the complete dungeon when zoning with a normal group.

Still, imagine: ST and BRD CHallenge Marathons. The horror!
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby bldavis » Tue Mar 05, 2013 3:28 am

Gold : 3:27:15
silver: 4:14:29
bronze: sub 7 hrs
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Andurin » Tue Mar 05, 2013 3:44 am

Teranoid wrote:Man they weren't kidding about pacing LFR.

Full LFR doesn't unlock until April 16th.


A birthday gift for me :o

Anyone else got ACDC preloaded already? Our raid leader just announced that we`ll have Thunderstruck over the voice chat the first time we are going in ^^
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Ruldar » Tue Mar 05, 2013 7:17 am

bldavis wrote:Gold : 3:27:15
silver: 4:14:29
bronze: sub 7 hrs


It's funny that you say 3 hours. When I was leveling my warlock recently, I managed to get in an LFG BRD run that took about three hours and we killed every mob in the dungeon and did every quest, including the bank key quest. It was the most gloriously nostalgic thing I have done in the game in years.

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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby halabar » Tue Mar 05, 2013 8:50 am

Andurin wrote:
Teranoid wrote:Man they weren't kidding about pacing LFR.

Full LFR doesn't unlock until April 16th.


Yeah, their intended desire to spread it out will:

1) Help some normal raiders see the content first on normal
2) Further deincentivize the hard-cores from running it
3) Keep the casuals busy longer

But it will also:

1) Keep the casuals who are trying to catch up hopelessly behind.

My 25-man already discussed it, and we are going to just continue to push through the 5.0 raids, and work on the team chemistry. I'm sure we'll loose a few that want to bang their heads on the new raids undergeared, but we'll be better for it in the long run.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Teranoid » Tue Mar 05, 2013 9:21 am

How is it going to leave casuals "hopelessly" behind? If you're not doing structured raiding why do you need that gear to begin with or are you just in a hurry to finish it all in a week and then go back to doing nothing? They're even upping the frequency of drops in the 5.0 raids and slapping a 10% nerf on everything.

I like it. This tier will last quite a while and I'd rather not have it run into the ground and be sick of it 2 months in like I was with this tier.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby halabar » Tue Mar 05, 2013 9:32 am

Teranoid wrote:How is it going to leave casuals "hopelessly" behind? If you're not doing structured raiding why do you need that gear to begin with or are you just in a hurry to finish it all in a week and then go back to doing nothing? They're even upping the frequency of drops in the 5.0 raids and slapping a 10% nerf on everything.


Considering that the ilvl value for getting beyond the 3rd boss of the new raid is supposed to be ~500 or so based on various rumblings, getting a raid group geared up to that is going to take a while, even with the increased drop rates on the old stuff.

End result is it is really going to spread out what people are doing.

Personally I don't mind that much, but I fully expect a few from my new 25-man that's still working on MSV (a lot of new raiders, a lot of blues still) to go all nerd-rage because we aren't going in the new content yet. Will probably be a good thing, but we might loose a few good people too.

The issue is that Blizz is now spreading people across the content, after 3 tiers of shoving everyone into the same level. That's not going to go over well with everyone, especially with very new people who haven't experienced multiple relevant tiers before.

Teranoid wrote:I like it. This tier will last quite a while and I'd rather not have it run into the ground and be sick of it 2 months in like I was with this tier.


I really don't mind it myself either, I'm just being realistic about what some of the other reactions will be.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby bldavis » Tue Mar 05, 2013 9:43 am

Ruldar wrote:
bldavis wrote:Gold : 3:27:15
silver: 4:14:29
bronze: sub 7 hrs


It's funny that you say 3 hours. When I was leveling my warlock recently, I managed to get in an LFG BRD run that took about three hours and we killed every mob in the dungeon and did every quest, including the bank key quest. It was the most gloriously nostalgic thing I have done in the game in years.

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Posts: 1? I've been lurking for 4 years and never posted before? Shesh.

welcome to the posting side! :twisted:
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Flex:I don't make mistakes. I execute carefully planned strategic group wipes.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby fuzzygeek » Tue Mar 05, 2013 9:44 am

Klaudandus wrote:I wonder if 5.2 is gonna be easier in normal than 5.0 was -- several of the fights were pretty tight in their tuning, even GC admitted erring in garalon, as an example.

but still dont see why 2 weeks between part 2 and 3, and 2 weeks between part 3 and 4.


I think the new idea is to let normal raiders beat fights if they can do mechanics, and heroic raiders get tight enrage timers.

The time lag is just stretching content. 2 weeks seems a bit extreme, unless they expect us to be in this tier for considerably longer than we were in t14.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Teranoid » Tue Mar 05, 2013 9:46 am

It's almost cringeworthy reading the R&D forums with people claiming Blizzard is treating them like "second class citizens" because they're not unleashing the entire raid in LFR today.

The ignorance of this playerbase never ceases to amaze me. This really IS the entitlement generation.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Klaudandus » Tue Mar 05, 2013 9:49 am

fuzzygeek wrote:
Klaudandus wrote:I wonder if 5.2 is gonna be easier in normal than 5.0 was -- several of the fights were pretty tight in their tuning, even GC admitted erring in garalon, as an example.

but still dont see why 2 weeks between part 2 and 3, and 2 weeks between part 3 and 4.


I think the new idea is to let normal raiders beat fights if they can do mechanics, and heroic raiders get tight enrage timers.

The time lag is just stretching content. 2 weeks seems a bit extreme, unless they expect us to be in this tier for considerably longer than we were in t14.


I sure hope so. It was annoying to die in garalon several times when his health was below 5% when he hit enrage
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby halabar » Tue Mar 05, 2013 9:50 am

fuzzygeek wrote:
Klaudandus wrote:I wonder if 5.2 is gonna be easier in normal than 5.0 was -- several of the fights were pretty tight in their tuning, even GC admitted erring in garalon, as an example.

but still dont see why 2 weeks between part 2 and 3, and 2 weeks between part 3 and 4.


I think the new idea is to let normal raiders beat fights if they can do mechanics, and heroic raiders get tight enrage timers.

The time lag is just stretching content. 2 weeks seems a bit extreme, unless they expect us to be in this tier for considerably longer than we were in t14.


Given the supposed "2-3 months" between patches, stretching out LFR to 6 weeks before it's all available is a bit interesting. Granted that the next patch won't have a new raid, but it surely will have some new faction to grind rep with.
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