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Re: patch 5.2 ?

PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 1:53 pm
by Newsom
Another interesting thing. According to mmo-champion's database all three versions of the trinket use the same proc effect, meaning the only gain from LFR->normal->heroic is in the agility portion of the trinket.


That's not quite how trinket procs work these days. Since MoP, procs scale with the item's item level (and even your character's level I believe). If they hadn't done this, you could potentially cheese challenge modes by using high item level trinkets. Database sites seem to have trouble picking up the scaling properly in their tooltips (armory example).

Edit: took that quote out of context. Disregard my post.

Re: patch 5.2 ?

PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 2:02 pm
by Rhiannon
Newsom wrote:
Another interesting thing. According to mmo-champion's database all three versions of the trinket use the same proc effect, meaning the only gain from LFR->normal->heroic is in the agility portion of the trinket.


That's not quite how trinket procs work these days. Since MoP, procs scale with the item's item level (and even your character's level I believe). If they hadn't done this, you could potentially cheese challenge modes by using high item level trinkets. Database sites seem to have trouble picking up the scaling properly in their tooltips (armory example).


He's talking about the agi trinket with the proc that shifts crit/haste/mastery to the highest of the three, and frankly it's kind of obvious that the proc for that one would be the same for all three versions - how exactly would they make it different?

Re: patch 5.2 ?

PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 2:21 pm
by Darielle
Someone on the official forums suggested something like 80%/100%/120% of your stats, but that has a clear problem - double-dip scaling when it scales off the stats of your other slots AND has a % scalar.

The trinket itself would be better as a "Converts 50% of your low stats, increases this converted amount by 100%, THEN tacks it onto your Highest stat". Then you're actually gaining something. At that point, you could even get into "Converts 50%, up to 2500", and it works out to an exact gain of 5000 free stat (on top of the value of 5000 converted stats), and THEN you can scale on the trinket to go increases by 100%/120%/140%.

It's not bad as a flavour concept, but poorly polished.

Re: patch 5.2 ?

PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 10:44 am
by Flex
They're sort of in a hard spot in trinket design. It is tough to make a new and interesting design that beats out the traditional designs.

Re: patch 5.2 ?

PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:17 am
by halabar
Flex wrote:They're sort of in a hard spot in trinket design. It is tough to make a new and interesting design that beats out the traditional designs.


Same goes for some armor designs.. coughhunterdurrlookwhatIjustkilledI'mwearingitdurrcough...

Re: patch 5.2 ?

PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:21 am
by Flex
halabar wrote:
Flex wrote:They're sort of in a hard spot in trinket design. It is tough to make a new and interesting design that beats out the traditional designs.


Same goes for some armor designs.. coughhunterdurrlookwhatIjustkilledI'mwearingitdurrcough...


Makes perfect sense for hunters to skin and make armor from their kills, just like all rogue gear should mimic the minions of the faction they're going to kill so they can easily sneak in and kill.

Re: patch 5.2 ?

PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:42 am
by halabar
Flex wrote:
halabar wrote:
Flex wrote:They're sort of in a hard spot in trinket design. It is tough to make a new and interesting design that beats out the traditional designs.


Same goes for some armor designs.. coughhunterdurrlookwhatIjustkilledI'mwearingitdurrcough...


Makes perfect sense for hunters to skin and make armor from their kills, just like all rogue gear should mimic the minions of the faction they're going to kill so they can easily sneak in and kill.


The problem is, hunters are skinning and wearing murlocs.. and yaks.. and sauroks.. what's gonna happen in the last patch of Mists and we are raiding Orgrimmar.. hunters skinning and wearing those terrifying little boars outside of Org?

Re: patch 5.2 ?

PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:44 am
by Flex
Orcslayer Battlegear. Kinda awkward if you're an orc hunter.

Re: patch 5.2 ?

PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:47 am
by Klaudandus
"I carry my family with me, my cousin ortuk is now my shouldergard!"

Re: patch 5.2 ?

PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 1:16 pm
by Darielle
They're sort of in a hard spot in trinket design. It is tough to make a new and interesting design that beats out the traditional designs.


Poppycock.

The issue is a compound of:
- They don't fully look at trinkets from the point of view of the users, so they typically end with either one or more that are just plain overpowered, and then a couple of others that are pretty much crap. The trinket that requires a Dodge proc is an extremely good example of this, but even things like Vial that went live and had to be readjusted because apparently no one thought they might get used by players against players count on that issue.
- They don't iterate very hard on trinket design once they have an idea. At best, they adjust proc rates slightly. If they have a bad design, they will just pretend it doesn't exist, especially if that makes the trinket correspondingly bad, therefore there's no issue of overpowered players running around in PvP.

The problem is, hunters are skinning and wearing murlocs.. and yaks.. and sauroks.. what's gonna happen in the last patch of Mists and we are raiding Orgrimmar.. hunters skinning and wearing those terrifying little boars outside of Org?


If in doubt, Orcs ALWAYS tame Dragons.

Re: patch 5.2 ?

PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 1:34 pm
by Flex
Darielle wrote:They don't fully look at trinkets from the point of view of the users


Because if players had their way Trinkets would be nothing but stat/stat proc on a predictable timer. Which is pretty much the exact opposite of what Blizzard really wants to do every tier.

Re: patch 5.2 ?

PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 1:44 pm
by Darielle
Because if players had their way Trinkets would be nothing but stat/stat proc on a predictable timer.


You could have at least pretended to read the rest of that instead of taking the line out of context.
Players don't have an interest in wanting plain stat/stat procs. If anything, players complain that so many trinkets ARE straight stat/statproc.

The actual issue that results from that is that you have trinkets that wind up underwhelming or overpowered, with very little in between. It didn't take a genius to figure that Vial would be used by players in PvP, or that one of the only trinkets in the tier being a dot-proc kinda means Arcane is stuck (although now that Bombs are talents, ~, but that's horrible in itself), etc. THOSE are what "considering them from the point of view of the users" involve.

As a result, they get this broad range between the hilariousness that was Mirror and how good it was (cause hey, we certainly hadn't had precedent from Sindy's Fang that a resist proc is usable far beyond its intended level), and the horribleness that was, say, Corpse Tongue Coin. Even stat/stat procs fail that boat because some stats are just SO bad for classes that a 509+8 barely beats a 463+8, and falls beind DMC.

Re: patch 5.2 ?

PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 7:18 pm
by Newsom
Blizzard wrote:Arena and Rated Battleground Season 12 is scheduled to end on Wednesday, March 6. At that point, we will determine who is eligible for the end-of-season rewards, a process that should take approximately one week. It's very important for players who feel that they may be eligible for Arena titles and/or the Malevolent Gladiator's Cloud Serpent to refrain from transferring their characters to another realm or faction until after Season 12 ends. The awarding of Season 12 titles and mounts will occur approximately two weeks after the season ends.

At the end of the season, Conquest Points will be converted to Honor Points and any honor above 4000 will be converted to gold at a rate of 35 silver per point. The honor cap will remain at 4000.

All Season 12 items will cost Honor Points (equivalent to their previous Conquest Point cost) when the season ends, with the exception of any items with rating requirements attached. These items will no longer be available for purchase.

The next Arena and Rated Battleground season will begin approximately one week after the current season ends. During the break between seasons, all Rated Battleground and Arena matches will be unavailable. Team and Personal Ratings will be reset when Season 13 begins.


Looks like we have 2 more weeks before the patch hits?

Re: patch 5.2 ?

PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 7:33 pm
by Worldie
Klaudandus wrote:"I carry my family with me, my cousin ortuk is now my shouldergard!"


This made me fall off the chair :D

Re: patch 5.2 ?

PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 11:06 pm
by Fenris
We like our recent change to a lower cooldown on Avenging Wrath for Retribution in PvP. We like it so much that we want to make it a baseline change for Retribution and not a set bonus, since many PvE paladins are benefiting from shorter wings today, and our recent DPS testing suggests that Ret needs a DPS buff. However, this does mean changing the existing T14 4pc PvE bonus.


So the list of changes reads like this:

Retribution has a two minute cooldown on Avenging Wrath baseline.
We are reverting the PvP set bonus change. The Retribution set bonuses remain as they are on live. This line will no longer appear in patch notes.
We are changing the T14 4pc PvE bonus to +10% damage on Seals and Judgment. We want you to graduate to the T15 set bonus fairly quickly and you won't be losing the shorter Avenging Wrath cooldown.
Retribution damage was too low, but as I mentioned above, we buffed it through more frequent use of Avenging Wrath.

I'm a cinic but i can't avoid reading that "we liked it a lot" as "we have no idea how to actually fix your low sustained damage so here,take the shorter cd burst spikes"

But again,a buff is a buff...

Re: patch 5.2 ?

PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 12:49 am
by Fenrìr
I almost feel like there's a simple solution for ret dmg. We're earlier too high on the charts so we get nerfed. Then, we're too low so they buff us and we end up at the top. How about taking the average of the adjustments and, wow, what a concept, decent sustained dmg.

Re: patch 5.2 ?

PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 3:50 am
by Nooska
Newsom wrote:
Blizzard wrote:Arena and Rated Battleground Season 12 is scheduled to end on Wednesday, March 6. At that point, we will determine who is eligible for the end-of-season rewards, a process that should take approximately one week. It's very important for players who feel that they may be eligible for Arena titles and/or the Malevolent Gladiator's Cloud Serpent to refrain from transferring their characters to another realm or faction until after Season 12 ends. The awarding of Season 12 titles and mounts will occur approximately two weeks after the season ends.

At the end of the season, Conquest Points will be converted to Honor Points and any honor above 4000 will be converted to gold at a rate of 35 silver per point. The honor cap will remain at 4000.

All Season 12 items will cost Honor Points (equivalent to their previous Conquest Point cost) when the season ends, with the exception of any items with rating requirements attached. These items will no longer be available for purchase.

The next Arena and Rated Battleground season will begin approximately one week after the current season ends. During the break between seasons, all Rated Battleground and Arena matches will be unavailable. Team and Personal Ratings will be reset when Season 13 begins.


Looks like we have 2 more weeks before the patch hits?

3 weeks, no? doesn't the season end 1 week before patch?

Re: patch 5.2 ?

PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 5:50 am
by Newsom
I was under the impression it ends when the patch hits, that's how they did it the last time anyway.

Season 10 ended on Nov 29, 2011 (holy crap has it been that long?) and patch 4.3 went live on the same day. You can't really compare season 11 since expansion releases are a bit different. Of course this is just informed speculation so they might do it differently this time around, but I really doubt it. :P

Re: patch 5.2 ?

PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 11:24 am
by halabar
Nooska wrote:3 weeks, no? doesn't the season end 1 week before patch?


They've done it both ways, but it looks like the season will end with the patch this time.

Re: patch 5.2 ?

PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 11:45 am
by Nooska
If only they would stick with 1 so we knew - at least I know why I was unsure whether it was same day or +1 week - blizzard hasn't been consistent :)

Re: patch 5.2 ?

PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 1:11 pm
by halabar
So true....

Image

Re: patch 5.2 ?

PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 1:33 pm
by Zalaria
Nooska wrote:If only they would stick with 1 so we knew - at least I know why I was unsure whether it was same day or +1 week - blizzard hasn't been consistent :)

Most likely they try to do it the same week but if it's not ready they push it back. Sometimes it's ready, sometimes it isn't. I'd rather wait for it to work better :P

Re: patch 5.2 ?

PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 1:38 pm
by halabar
Regarding the ShadowPan-Assault loot. Just checked the PTR, and there's a 522 neck available that you can buy right away, and then three pieces available at friendly. So staying close to valor cap to pick up that gear is certainly worthwhile.

Re: patch 5.2 ?

PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 2:12 pm
by KysenMurrin
Shaman
- Spirit Walk – cooldown reduced from 2 min to 1 min.

Hooray! (Apart from rebalancing the level 60 and 90 talents, this is the only change Enhancement has received in 5.2.)

Re: patch 5.2 ?

PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 2:26 am
by Darielle
We're going to make some changes to this trinket based on testing and feedback. Our goal was to make it decent if you didn't game it at all but offer some opportunities for enhanced benefits if you did. We're going to try to meet that goal better with these changes:

10 sec duration (down from 20 sec) but with double the proc rate.
Increase your highest secondary stat by 200% of the sum of your two lowest secondary stats. For example: you have 3500 mastery, 5000 crit, 7000 haste. Rune procs, and you get [-3500 mastery, -5000 crit, +17000 haste]. Same logic as before, just double the size of the buff to your highest stat.


I am going to LOVE my Bleeds.

Who wants to bow to Windwalker overlords with this bad boy?