patch 5.2 ?

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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Sagara » Tue Feb 05, 2013 8:09 am

I think we are the textbook definition of Unpleasable Fanbase.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby benebarba » Tue Feb 05, 2013 8:12 am

Sagara wrote:I think we are the textbook definition of Unpleasable Fanbase.


Seriously - and I think a shining example of why 'listening to the community' isn't always a great idea: 'the community' is an uneven distribution of a variety of opinions, some valid, some ridiculous, and some variable as the weather in Chicago. And most don't really seem to have a grounding to help differentiate in their heads 'things I want' and 'things I want that would make the game better for everyone', let alone the ability to present it well.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Teranoid » Tue Feb 05, 2013 8:16 am

benebarba wrote:
Sagara wrote:I think we are the textbook definition of Unpleasable Fanbase.


Seriously - and I think a shining example of why 'listening to the community' isn't always a great idea: 'the community' is an uneven distribution of a variety of opinions, some valid, some ridiculous, and some variable as the weather in Chicago. And most don't really seem to have a grounding to help differentiate in their heads 'things I want' and 'things I want that would make the game better for everyone', let alone the ability to present it well.


The official forums should be evidence enough that listening to your playerbase is a stones throw from financial suicide.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby benebarba » Tue Feb 05, 2013 8:18 am

Teranoid wrote:
benebarba wrote:
Sagara wrote:I think we are the textbook definition of Unpleasable Fanbase.


Seriously - and I think a shining example of why 'listening to the community' isn't always a great idea: 'the community' is an uneven distribution of a variety of opinions, some valid, some ridiculous, and some variable as the weather in Chicago. And most don't really seem to have a grounding to help differentiate in their heads 'things I want' and 'things I want that would make the game better for everyone', let alone the ability to present it well.


The official forums should be evidence enough that listening to your playerbase is a stones throw from financial suicide.


And I think they know that, and it's the CM's job to 'keep up appearances', since most people really probably wouldn't like the more honest answer of: 'We've read your commentary, figured out what it was you were trying to spell, realized you have no clue what you are talking about and ignored it for the good of humanity.'
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby halabar » Tue Feb 05, 2013 8:27 am

Sagara wrote:I think we are the textbook definition of Unpleasable Fanbase.



No, the worst case is the Petopia forums, where the fan girls go emo because their favorite beastie isn't tameable yet, or because a certain pet skin had a color change. I swear some of those people cut themselves after each ptr patch.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Skye1013 » Tue Feb 05, 2013 8:29 am

benebarba wrote:'We've read your commentary, figured out what it was you were trying to spell, realized you have no clue what you are talking about and ignored it for the good of humanity.'

Like it or not... this should be 90% of the blues posts (with the 10% still being about the same number as there is now... this has the added effect of people not being able to complain about never seeing blue posts!)
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Nooska » Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:10 am

So simple solution, hire a CM whose only job it is to read posts and post this whenever the idea is.. wlel in that category.

Any volounteers? Qualifications;
Must enjoy soulcrushing.
Must be immune to fire.
Must be able to vary the rejection language.

Plusses:
Ability to snark.
Ability to use sarcasm in non-obvious ways
Ability to let people down harshly.

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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Sagara » Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:14 am

Isn't Draztal the resident snarker EU side?
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Nooska » Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:16 am

Well its a job with blizzard, and acording to the daily blink Zarhym is the skull behind the company ;-)
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Flex » Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:39 am

Nooska wrote:So simple solution, hire a CM whose only job it is to read posts and post this whenever the idea is.. wlel in that category.

Any volounteers? Qualifications;
Must enjoy soulcrushing.
Must be immune to fire.
Must be able to vary the rejection language.

Plusses:
Ability to snark.
Ability to use sarcasm in non-obvious ways
Ability to let people down harshly.

Applications @mikemorhaime cc @CM_Zarhym


tseric already quit...

as an aside based on feedback from this cycle that a lot of PvP changed have greater influence from trusted player sources than PvE changes.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Klaudandus » Tue Feb 05, 2013 11:09 am

Flex wrote:
Nooska wrote:So simple solution, hire a CM whose only job it is to read posts and post this whenever the idea is.. wlel in that category.

Any volounteers? Qualifications;
Must enjoy soulcrushing.
Must be immune to fire.
Must be able to vary the rejection language.

Plusses:
Ability to snark.
Ability to use sarcasm in non-obvious ways
Ability to let people down harshly.

Applications @mikemorhaime cc @CM_Zarhym


tseric already quit...

as an aside based on feedback from this cycle that a lot of PvP changed have greater influence from trusted player sources than PvE changes.

Tseric told everyone to shove it
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby KysenMurrin » Tue Feb 05, 2013 11:59 am

Shield of the Righteous Instantly slam the target with your shield, causing [ 836 + 61.7% of AP ] Holy damage, reducing the physical damage you take by 30% [ 30 ] [Min 30, Max 80]% for 3 sec, and causing Bastion of Glory. Bastion of Glory Increases the strength of your Word of Glory when used to heal yourself by 10%. Stacks up to 5 times. Paladin - Protection Spec. 3 Holy Power. Melee range. Instant. 1.5 sec cooldown.

ShoR damage reduction caps at 80%.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Klaudandus » Tue Feb 05, 2013 12:12 pm

KysenMurrin wrote:
Shield of the Righteous Instantly slam the target with your shield, causing [ 836 + 61.7% of AP ] Holy damage, reducing the physical damage you take by 30% [ 30 ] [Min 30, Max 80]% for 3 sec, and causing Bastion of Glory. Bastion of Glory Increases the strength of your Word of Glory when used to heal yourself by 10%. Stacks up to 5 times. Paladin - Protection Spec. 3 Holy Power. Melee range. Instant. 1.5 sec cooldown.

ShoR damage reduction caps at 80%.

At least it gives a theoretical ceiling on how much mastery we can hoard before its wasted. Iow, mastery is worth this much before x and this much after x
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Flex » Tue Feb 05, 2013 12:22 pm

interesting:
Level 90 players that use Dungeon Finder to look for a random Dungeon or Scenario will receive additional bonus Valor Points upon completing specific Dungeons or Scenarios.
Dungeons
Siege of Niuzao Temple: 5 bonus Valor Points
Scholomance: 10 bonus Valor Points
Shadow-Pan Monastery: 15 bonus Valor Points


I do get a lot of players dropping from those dungeons. Interesting to see how they try to counter it.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Klaudandus » Tue Feb 05, 2013 12:27 pm

Flex wrote:interesting:
Level 90 players that use Dungeon Finder to look for a random Dungeon or Scenario will receive additional bonus Valor Points upon completing specific Dungeons or Scenarios.
Dungeons
Siege of Niuzao Temple: 5 bonus Valor Points
Scholomance: 10 bonus Valor Points
Shadow-Pan Monastery: 15 bonus Valor Points


I do get a lot of players dropping from those dungeons. Interesting to see how they try to counter it.

I hate shado pan, even worse when after finishing it, i get it again.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby KysenMurrin » Tue Feb 05, 2013 12:33 pm

Shado-Pan's always seemed quicker than Scholomance, to me.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Flex » Tue Feb 05, 2013 12:47 pm

KysenMurrin wrote:Shado-Pan's always seemed quicker than Scholomance, to me.


People drop SPM after Snowdrift if the tank gear doesn't drop.
People drop Scholomance...not sure, don't think I've had people drop from there.
People drop form Siege after no tank pants drop.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby fuzzygeek » Tue Feb 05, 2013 1:08 pm

SPM's been an instant-drop for me for months. It is way the fuck too long -- they really should have split it in half. The additional VP is probably enough to entice me to actually do it instead of dropping and surfing reddit for 30m while the debuff falls off, but I'm going to have to time it next time.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Flex » Tue Feb 05, 2013 1:31 pm

fuzzygeek wrote:SPM's been an instant-drop for me for months. It is way the fuck too long -- they really should have split it in half. The additional VP is probably enough to entice me to actually do it instead of dropping and surfing reddit for 30m while the debuff falls off, but I'm going to have to time it next time.


That's not what this change is.

This change makes it so if you do a random heroic then queue for one of those 3 specific ones you get bonus VP for completing it instead of bailing after the boss drops/doesn't drop what you want.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Zalaria » Tue Feb 05, 2013 1:35 pm

Flex wrote:
fuzzygeek wrote:SPM's been an instant-drop for me for months. It is way the fuck too long -- they really should have split it in half. The additional VP is probably enough to entice me to actually do it instead of dropping and surfing reddit for 30m while the debuff falls off, but I'm going to have to time it next time.


That's not what this change is.

This change makes it so if you do a random heroic then queue for one of those 3 specific ones you get bonus VP for completing it instead of bailing after the boss drops/doesn't drop what you want.


That's not how I read it. It reads to me like "if you random into one of these, we'll give you a bonus for finishing it".
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby fuzzygeek » Tue Feb 05, 2013 1:44 pm

Zalaria wrote:That's not how I read it. It reads to me like "if you random into one of these, we'll give you a bonus for finishing it".


Pretty sure this is the case:

Level 90 players that use Dungeon Finder to look for a random Dungeon or Scenario will receive additional bonus Valor Points upon completing specific Dungeons or Scenarios.


Direct queuing doesn't reward any Valor at all, IIRC.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby econ21 » Tue Feb 05, 2013 5:00 pm

Not sure why the new rep factions give 476 belts at honored. You can already get 496 from Shieldwall.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Worldie » Tue Feb 05, 2013 5:02 pm

Possible it's placeholders.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby theckhd » Tue Feb 05, 2013 5:42 pm

Darielle wrote:
Sagara wrote:In other words, business as usual, only that avoidance gets a 0.2 rating on AMR instead of 0.1... Let's see what Theck's maths will bring - it's too late at night, can't wrap my brains properly around statistics right now.


It should state a nerf at all levels of Haste, because as Kihra pointed out, 25% avoidance is fairly high, and is NOT something someone would have while stacking Haste in any way (the discussion in that WoW thread was about stacking avoidance vs stacking haste)

It's a little more complicated than that. Haste certainly got a nerf, and avoidance certainly got a buff. The preliminary numbers are looking like Control/Mastery has a slight edge in survivability, but the differences aren't that huge. But again, I haven't finished analyzing the numbers, as I just finished writing the simulation last night.

Hoping to have a blog post up later this week with results and analysis, if I get time.

Unfortunately, this throws a giant wrench into the DPS portion of the MATLAB code. We're still working on figuring out how to proceed with those simulations. It also borks my analytical survivability calculations for the moment, but those are less important since we have the monte-carlo results.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby halabar » Tue Feb 05, 2013 6:25 pm

So the 5.2 factions will be handing out 522 ilvl gear. Assumining LFR boss kills do grant rep, if you are a slow normal raider or an LFR only raider, you'll be grinding LFR weekly for the rep, as it will fill 10 gear slots. Considering the ilvl difference, you might even forgoe LFR tier for set bonuses, depending on the itemization.

They did previously state that you can't double up on rep, so if you are clearing normal in a few weeks then it's not an issue.
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