patch 5.2 ?

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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby benebarba » Mon Jan 28, 2013 6:13 pm

Darielle wrote:The weapons even have Sha Sockets in them, the same icons and the same stats. Everything is a placeholder for now.


Considering they are going to continue to let you buy the gems and the sockets (at least AFAIK)... I hardly see how that is an indication that those aren't likely to be the pieces.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Fetzie » Mon Jan 28, 2013 6:15 pm

benebarba wrote:
Darielle wrote:The weapons even have Sha Sockets in them, the same icons and the same stats. Everything is a placeholder for now.


Considering they are going to continue to let you buy the gems and the sockets (at least AFAIK)... I hardly see how that is an indication that those aren't likely to be the pieces.


See here: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/7763316421#8

You're really best off sticking to information actually contained in our patch notes or other official channels of communication if you're looking to avoid confusion.

There are no more Sha-Touched weapons forthcoming. If you've been diligent about helping Wrathion and continue to do so, your reward in 5.2 is going to be a legendary meta-gem that can go in any helmet.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby benebarba » Mon Jan 28, 2013 6:37 pm

Fetzie wrote:
benebarba wrote:
Darielle wrote:The weapons even have Sha Sockets in them, the same icons and the same stats. Everything is a placeholder for now.


Considering they are going to continue to let you buy the gems and the sockets (at least AFAIK)... I hardly see how that is an indication that those aren't likely to be the pieces.


See here: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/7763316421#8

You're really best off sticking to information actually contained in our patch notes or other official channels of communication if you're looking to avoid confusion.

There are no more Sha-Touched weapons forthcoming. If you've been diligent about helping Wrathion and continue to do so, your reward in 5.2 is going to be a legendary meta-gem that can go in any helmet.


heh - disregard previous post :P
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby benebarba » Tue Jan 29, 2013 8:35 am

I did end up reading some more of the posts in that thread... I can kind of understand some of the sentiment of 'WTF, yo, I did this thing late in the patch, then got a weapon upgrade and unless I finish the next part, it's like I never did anything?'. But I imagine most folks will end up holding onto their sha-touched weapon with all the shinies for a fair bit of time. Going from 489 to 502 (LFR->LFR upgrade) doesn't seem like it is likely to make up for a +500 primary (other than stam) and a prismatic socket.

Am I missing something? It seems like you'd need to go from an LFR sha-touched weapon fully upgraded (gem + socket, not VP upgrade) to something like a heroic weapon from 5.2 to make up for that... which I imagine is a fairly unlikely scenario.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Gab » Tue Jan 29, 2013 9:29 am

benebarba wrote:Am I missing something?


I don't know how highly all classes vaule weapon ilvl. But keep in mind that the spell power contribution for casters/healers and the weapon dps contribution for physical dps is usually weighted a lot higher than other stats.

For example my personal ret sims had 502 Starshatter > 496 Shin'ka w/ Crystalized Terror. It's only now, with the addition of the prismatic socket that Shin'ka eeks out a very small dps increase over the Starshatter.

So an LFR Sha touched (483) with a Sha touched gem AND prismatic socket will almost certainly be replaced by the new 502 LFR weapons afaik. At least for ret, although I imagine that will be the case with most classes. A double upgraded Sha touched (491) might be a little closer for some classes.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Klaudandus » Tue Jan 29, 2013 9:40 am

Some classes are very dependent on weapon damage, not just AP, for their abilities...

Even us, to some degree...

Cons is just AP...cs and hotr are based on weapon damage + AP
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Darielle » Tue Jan 29, 2013 2:15 pm

It also depends on where your stats take you. If you're a Feral for whom Haste stacking wins out at a point in time (more Shredding), your weapon means more than if Mastery stacking is the game (increased bleed damage don't care about weapons)
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Jaitee » Wed Jan 30, 2013 2:30 am

Darielle wrote:It also depends on where your stats take you. If you're a Feral for whom Haste stacking wins out at a point in time (more Shredding), your weapon means more than if Mastery stacking is the game (increased bleed damage don't care about weapons)


dont ferals get a large portion of their AP from "feral attack power" which is based completely on weapon damage or dps? so better weapon = more AP = bigger bleeds
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Worldie » Wed Jan 30, 2013 2:40 am

That was 2 expansions ago :P
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Fetzie » Wed Jan 30, 2013 3:30 am

Feral Druids now get their weapon damage from the average dps of the weapon equipped (gets normalised to a 1 second swing time) or something like taht.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Darielle » Wed Jan 30, 2013 5:44 am

Ferals lost the ability to FAP a long time back.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Fetzie » Wed Jan 30, 2013 6:09 am

Darielle wrote:Ferals lost the ability to FAP a long time back.

I see what you did there :)
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Flex » Wed Jan 30, 2013 11:37 am

http://ptr.wowdb.com/items/95509-mantid ... ic-locator makes me almost as happy as new battle pets.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Shoju » Wed Jan 30, 2013 12:03 pm

I can't help but notice that the Wrathion line isn't exactly "Stimulating" for rewards to a tank. I guess the Sha Gem would give you a fair amount of parry, but with the changes to the metas, who in the world would bother using one of those now to tank with?
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Flex » Wed Jan 30, 2013 12:10 pm

Shoju wrote:I can't help but notice that the Wrathion line isn't exactly "Stimulating" for rewards to a tank. I guess the Sha Gem would give you a fair amount of parry, but with the changes to the metas, who in the world would bother using one of those now to tank with?


http://ptr.wowdb.com/items/95344-indomi ... al-diamond seems pretty okay. The DPS ones were changed from stamina to a DPS, the tank one didn't get changed.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Shoju » Wed Jan 30, 2013 12:46 pm

Had not seen that one. I like it, and semi sort of retract my statement. I guess looking at the weapon left me feeling overwhelmed. The sword looks good, with it's hit / mastery. Does the 500str attract tanks? it looks to be about .5% parry before DR, assuming that parry gained from STR is affected by DR (At times I feel utterly clueless trying to make sense of stats and the changes)
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Darielle » Wed Jan 30, 2013 1:00 pm

Not sure what you really mean with that. It's 500 Strength that you can only equip in a Sha-Touched weapon and is the only thing you can equip in a Sha-Touched socket, so it's not a question of what's attractive, it's basically a free 500 Str (unless you buy an extra).

There won't be new Sha-Touched weapons in 5.2, so you'll replace yours at some point in the line anyway (especially if it's 496 or 483 - 509 might last until Heroic).
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Shoju » Wed Jan 30, 2013 1:19 pm

Right. it's 500 free Strength, but why would you ever (as long as there is another Str user) give it to a tank?

http://www.wowhead.com/item=86987
Is the same itemization, has a blue socket with mastery bonus. It's not lagging behind enough that your tank is ever going to care from a threat perspective.

So why give the Sha to a Tank? Sure, the 500 str gives ~.5% Parry before DR, but that's not a "make or break" for the tank.

Or the tank could go with Elegion the fanged Crescent. Which again, is well itemized for a tank (that cares about hitting? Does anyone not care about hitting anymore?) and leaves them more flexibility in the other gear.

I guess I don't see where giving the tank the sword with the slot for the 500 str gem is "attractive" for a raid group that would have a DPSer who would use it is the "best" idea. It leaves me wondering why there wasn't a more tanky gem.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Flex » Wed Jan 30, 2013 1:20 pm

well the gems are a personal quest and weapons drop more often than once on occasion.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Shoju » Wed Jan 30, 2013 1:29 pm

Flex wrote:well the gems are a personal quest and weapons drop more often than once on occasion.


Right. I understand the gems are a personal quest. And I udnerstand that the weapons drop more than once. They drop from 1 boss in Heart of Fear, and 2 bosses in Terrace of Endless Spring, and they have a chance to drop on all difficulties.

But for a minute, lets say Theck's Guild kills the Heroic guy who drops the 1h'd Str Sword and it drops.

What is the benefit of giving it to theck over giving it to the fury warrior / DW Dk?

Sure, there are things like DKP, EP/GP, etc... that could mean that Theck ends up with it anyway. But, from a "Best use of the Loot", what is the advantage giving it to the tank? There is no tank gem, it's just 500 str, and some Parry. A little more DPS, and a little more avoidance.

I guess I just don't understand why they didn't make a tank gem. Stam, or something. It just doesn't seem like (even with tanks caring about hitting and tank DPS being non trivial) the "best use" for the item, unless everyone else has the item that could use it.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Gab » Wed Jan 30, 2013 1:39 pm

Shoju wrote: unless everyone else has the item that could use it.


Why give tanks ANYTHING that would be an upgrade for a DPS? It's the same principle. 509 SoSS vs 509 Kilrak both fully gemmed. Kilrak gives you 580 str and 40 hit at the cost of 20 mastery. It's attractive 'cause it's better than any other alternative? If you eventually get one then cool, if not oh well you're only missing out on a little extra strength vs SoSS.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Shoju » Wed Jan 30, 2013 1:57 pm

Gab wrote:
Shoju wrote: unless everyone else has the item that could use it.


Why give tanks ANYTHING that would be an upgrade for a DPS? It's the same principle. 509 SoSS vs 509 Kilrak both fully gemmed. Kilrak gives you 580 str and 40 hit at the cost of 20 mastery. It's attractive 'cause it's better than any other alternative? If you eventually get one then cool, if not oh well you're only missing out on a little extra strength vs SoSS.


Which is why, there has been Tank Gear, and why Blizzard is currently unhappy with Paladins and Haste.

My point was simply, that the Sha Touched Gems leave something to be desired fro a tank perspective in the current tier.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Gab » Wed Jan 30, 2013 2:02 pm

Shoju wrote:Which is why, there has been Tank Gear, and why Blizzard is currently unhappy with Paladins and Haste.

My point was simply, that the Sha Touched Gems leave something to be desired fro a tank perspective in the current tier.


The whole haste/str gear is totally unrelated unless you are trying to argue there should be an avoidance weapon.

Would it be any different if there were a Sha stam gem? Weapons would still go to DPS first.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Shoju » Wed Jan 30, 2013 2:14 pm

Gab wrote:
Shoju wrote:Which is why, there has been Tank Gear, and why Blizzard is currently unhappy with Paladins and Haste.

My point was simply, that the Sha Touched Gems leave something to be desired fro a tank perspective in the current tier.


The whole haste/str gear is totally unrelated unless you are trying to argue there should be an avoidance weapon.

Would it be any different if there were a Sha stam gem? Weapons would still go to DPS first.


NO. I'm not saying that there should be an avoidance weapon. i'm saying that Blizzard doesn't like DPS plate going to tanks, so they have Tank Gear for Tanks. They currently are unhappy that Paladins are eyeing DPS plate for tanking because of the Haste Conundrum.

It would be different with a Sha Stam Gem. It would feel like it was designed to include tanks. That's all I'm saying. It seems like an oversight to not have a "tanky" gem.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Sagara » Wed Jan 30, 2013 3:10 pm

LFR stacking buff for every wipe.

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