patch 5.2 ?

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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Klaudandus » Sun Jan 27, 2013 1:23 pm

point there, but are they ever gonna remove hit and exp?
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby theckhd » Sun Jan 27, 2013 1:43 pm

halabar wrote:But the argument still seems to be revolving around "ZOMG there's only one trinket in the current content for me".

Without looking at the loot tables, a heroic raider still might want a new 496 trinket from the new LFR due to stats or the on-use. Same even could apply for tier bonuses,especially when going for 4-piece.

I'll respect Theck's argument that the scaling should be toned down, but to think that 6 ilvls is magically going to keep every heroic raider out of the new LFR is really silly indeed.

Yeah, trinkets are the slot most affected here, since we're generally using ilvl 489 stamina trinkets.

But like I said, I'm not sure it's as big a deal anymore. 502 is still below the average ilvl you'd expect a serious heroic raider to have going into normal T15. There might be one or two slots where there's an upgrade in LFR for those players, but only for the first week or two. They'll likely be running it for valor anyway, and if not they can pick just the particular quarter in which their upgrade happens to drop.

One or two LFRs the first few weeks is a minor inconvenience. I'd rather do that than 90 VP worth of dailies anyway. And it will be obsoleted in a few weeks as we acquire 520 gear. It seems like a mountain/molehill situation to me. The important thing is that there's no incentive for groups to chain-run all of LFR 5 or 6 times a week in rotating groups to accumulate as much tier as possible for heroic progression.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Newsom » Sun Jan 27, 2013 4:20 pm

For 25 mans, sure. For 10s, there are items we still have never even seen drop yet...

Then drops are a bit weird this tier, for example there is only one non-spirit caster ring available across all 3 instances. Mages are left with either using a spirit ring (which I think actually works out to be BiS) or the 489 ring from valor. I'm sure they will be running LFR for a while.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby jere » Sun Jan 27, 2013 9:51 pm

There's also the non-spirit ring from klaxxi exalted. I don't know how it rates against the others though (hit/mastery).
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Newsom » Mon Jan 28, 2013 2:27 am

jere wrote:There's also the non-spirit ring from klaxxi exalted. I don't know how it rates against the others though (hit/mastery).


Still 489 though. There's also one from Galleon I think (496) but good luck killing him let alone seeing that drop. Point is a lot of casters will need a new ring. :P
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby theckhd » Mon Jan 28, 2013 6:14 am

Newsom wrote:Then drops are a bit weird this tier, for example there is only one non-spirit caster ring available across all 3 instances. Mages are left with either using a spirit ring (which I think actually works out to be BiS) or the 489 ring from valor. I'm sure they will be running LFR for a while.

Yeah, drops are sort of weird this tier. I didn't know about the caster ring issue, but you see it even within tank and plate DPS gear. I suspect that HoF/ToES's ilvl was initially 489, but they decided to bump it up late in beta. That would explain some of it (because then rep gear and MSV gear filling gaps would be perfectly logical).
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Jezakael » Mon Jan 28, 2013 6:22 am

Newsom wrote:Still 489 though. There's also one from Galleon I think (496) but good luck killing him let alone seeing that drop. Point is a lot of casters will need a new ring. :P

There is also a 496 valor ring from Dominance Offensive/Operation Shieldwall
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Sagara » Mon Jan 28, 2013 8:06 am

Interesting side-effect, it is mostly useless to upgrade anything from N MGV or LFR, unless it is crazy-itemized, as their fully upgraded ilvl will be trumped by the LFR loot from T15.
You're better off upgrading Heroic loot or Normal HoF/ToES loot.

In short, unless the new shield sucks even MORE (is that even possible?), don't spend Valor on Normal Steelskin.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby econ21 » Mon Jan 28, 2013 8:30 am

Sagara wrote:In short, unless the new shield sucks even MORE (is that even possible?),...


No, it's the same itemisation as the old shield:

http://ptr.wowdb.com/items/94945-5-2-ra ... s-8-loot-2

Blizzard like their avoidance.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Sagara » Mon Jan 28, 2013 8:51 am

So it suck only just as much?
Better spend the Valor elsewhere :-p
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Pruke » Mon Jan 28, 2013 12:08 pm

Frustrated by the fact they made LFR ilvl 502.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Sagara » Mon Jan 28, 2013 12:27 pm

Same. 496 would be more like it, I think.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Promdates » Mon Jan 28, 2013 12:31 pm

econ21 wrote:
Sagara wrote:No, it's the same itemisation as the old shield:

http://ptr.wowdb.com/items/94945-5-2-ra ... s-8-loot-2

Blizzard like their avoidance.


All they did was take old raid items and bump them up for testing. You honestly think these are "final" items we'll see come 5.2?
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Darielle » Mon Jan 28, 2013 12:32 pm

^^

The weapons even have Sha Sockets in them, the same icons and the same stats. Everything is a placeholder for now.

I suspect that HoF/ToES's ilvl was initially 489, but they decided to bump it up late in beta. That would explain some of it (because then rep gear and MSV gear filling gaps would be perfectly logical).


I think they did that too, as well as sort of put in Item Upgrades without really thinking where to go with it, and that's bumped up "gear people have" by a non-trivial amount. I would fully suspect given that Heroic Thunderforged is at 541 that the T16 Normal will be over 550, if they apply the same logic as this tier to it.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby econ21 » Mon Jan 28, 2013 6:01 pm

Promdates wrote:All they did was take old raid items and bump them up for testing. You honestly think these are "final" items we'll see come 5.2?


Well, now I don't. :) I just cut and paste the link from MMO Champion. But yes, what else was I supposed to think reading this intro to the links:

MMO Champion wrote:The latest PTR build added some of the new raid gear from the Throne of Thunder.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby benebarba » Mon Jan 28, 2013 6:13 pm

Darielle wrote:The weapons even have Sha Sockets in them, the same icons and the same stats. Everything is a placeholder for now.


Considering they are going to continue to let you buy the gems and the sockets (at least AFAIK)... I hardly see how that is an indication that those aren't likely to be the pieces.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Fetzie » Mon Jan 28, 2013 6:15 pm

benebarba wrote:
Darielle wrote:The weapons even have Sha Sockets in them, the same icons and the same stats. Everything is a placeholder for now.


Considering they are going to continue to let you buy the gems and the sockets (at least AFAIK)... I hardly see how that is an indication that those aren't likely to be the pieces.


See here: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/7763316421#8

You're really best off sticking to information actually contained in our patch notes or other official channels of communication if you're looking to avoid confusion.

There are no more Sha-Touched weapons forthcoming. If you've been diligent about helping Wrathion and continue to do so, your reward in 5.2 is going to be a legendary meta-gem that can go in any helmet.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby benebarba » Mon Jan 28, 2013 6:37 pm

Fetzie wrote:
benebarba wrote:
Darielle wrote:The weapons even have Sha Sockets in them, the same icons and the same stats. Everything is a placeholder for now.


Considering they are going to continue to let you buy the gems and the sockets (at least AFAIK)... I hardly see how that is an indication that those aren't likely to be the pieces.


See here: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/7763316421#8

You're really best off sticking to information actually contained in our patch notes or other official channels of communication if you're looking to avoid confusion.

There are no more Sha-Touched weapons forthcoming. If you've been diligent about helping Wrathion and continue to do so, your reward in 5.2 is going to be a legendary meta-gem that can go in any helmet.


heh - disregard previous post :P
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby benebarba » Tue Jan 29, 2013 8:35 am

I did end up reading some more of the posts in that thread... I can kind of understand some of the sentiment of 'WTF, yo, I did this thing late in the patch, then got a weapon upgrade and unless I finish the next part, it's like I never did anything?'. But I imagine most folks will end up holding onto their sha-touched weapon with all the shinies for a fair bit of time. Going from 489 to 502 (LFR->LFR upgrade) doesn't seem like it is likely to make up for a +500 primary (other than stam) and a prismatic socket.

Am I missing something? It seems like you'd need to go from an LFR sha-touched weapon fully upgraded (gem + socket, not VP upgrade) to something like a heroic weapon from 5.2 to make up for that... which I imagine is a fairly unlikely scenario.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Gab » Tue Jan 29, 2013 9:29 am

benebarba wrote:Am I missing something?


I don't know how highly all classes vaule weapon ilvl. But keep in mind that the spell power contribution for casters/healers and the weapon dps contribution for physical dps is usually weighted a lot higher than other stats.

For example my personal ret sims had 502 Starshatter > 496 Shin'ka w/ Crystalized Terror. It's only now, with the addition of the prismatic socket that Shin'ka eeks out a very small dps increase over the Starshatter.

So an LFR Sha touched (483) with a Sha touched gem AND prismatic socket will almost certainly be replaced by the new 502 LFR weapons afaik. At least for ret, although I imagine that will be the case with most classes. A double upgraded Sha touched (491) might be a little closer for some classes.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Klaudandus » Tue Jan 29, 2013 9:40 am

Some classes are very dependent on weapon damage, not just AP, for their abilities...

Even us, to some degree...

Cons is just AP...cs and hotr are based on weapon damage + AP
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Darielle » Tue Jan 29, 2013 2:15 pm

It also depends on where your stats take you. If you're a Feral for whom Haste stacking wins out at a point in time (more Shredding), your weapon means more than if Mastery stacking is the game (increased bleed damage don't care about weapons)
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Jaitee » Wed Jan 30, 2013 2:30 am

Darielle wrote:It also depends on where your stats take you. If you're a Feral for whom Haste stacking wins out at a point in time (more Shredding), your weapon means more than if Mastery stacking is the game (increased bleed damage don't care about weapons)


dont ferals get a large portion of their AP from "feral attack power" which is based completely on weapon damage or dps? so better weapon = more AP = bigger bleeds
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Worldie » Wed Jan 30, 2013 2:40 am

That was 2 expansions ago :P
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Fetzie » Wed Jan 30, 2013 3:30 am

Feral Druids now get their weapon damage from the average dps of the weapon equipped (gets normalised to a 1 second swing time) or something like taht.
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