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patch 5.2 ?

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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby bldavis » Thu Jan 24, 2013 10:21 am

yes afaik haste still affects rune speed, which helps cause haste is god for frost and i have to use alot of the same gear for both frost and blood
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Klaudandus » Thu Jan 24, 2013 11:03 am

Is there a reasoning behind this? It honestly feels like you're taking the opinions of a mysterious part of the playerbase (like the same portion who you quoted as "not liking DivPurP because it was too RNG") and changing the entire spec paradigm around it. Why push for MORE class homogenization when the game already has WAY too much?



The game just isn't currently designed to support it. It creates potential problems such as:

- A Prot paladin competing with a Frost DK or Ret paladin over gear, meaning there isn't enough DPS plate to go around.
- A Prot paladin considering a tier set with dodge and parry on it to be "garbage" because it doesn't stack all haste.
- A Prot paladin looking at a Ret 2pc set bonus that she normally wouldn't touch because now the stats aren't that bad either.

In a world where tanking plate didn't exist or every loot system used the personal LFR one or 100% efficient reforging then it might work.

We understand that having a lot of haste feels fun and visceral and is more dependable than dodge and parry. We'll try to come up with a solution that keeps that in mind.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic ... age=48#949
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Flex » Thu Jan 24, 2013 11:15 am

Whenever you dodge, parry or block the remaining cooldown of your CS and HotR is reduced by 0.1 seconds.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Klaudandus » Thu Jan 24, 2013 11:24 am

Notsureifserious
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Sagara » Thu Jan 24, 2013 11:26 am

Honestly, i'd rather bite the bullet, lose SoB and get done with it than suffer more rollercoaster, and get back to haste (and crit?) stacking in 6.0 where all tank stats DIE !!
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Flex » Thu Jan 24, 2013 11:27 am

Klaudandus wrote:Notsureifserious


That'd be my solution *shrug*
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Klaudandus » Thu Jan 24, 2013 11:35 am

Flex wrote:
Klaudandus wrote:Notsureifserious


That'd be my solution *shrug*

It would need to reduce the gcd as well by the same amount to begin with, id say.

Otherwise, the ability might be ready but we cant use it, making the proc go to waste.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Jadhzia » Thu Jan 24, 2013 11:44 am

Klaudandus wrote:
Is there a reasoning behind this? It honestly feels like you're taking the opinions of a mysterious part of the playerbase (like the same portion who you quoted as "not liking DivPurP because it was too RNG") and changing the entire spec paradigm around it. Why push for MORE class homogenization when the game already has WAY too much?



The game just isn't currently designed to support it. It creates potential problems such as:

- A Prot paladin competing with a Frost DK or Ret paladin over gear, meaning there isn't enough DPS plate to go around.
- A Prot paladin considering a tier set with dodge and parry on it to be "garbage" because it doesn't stack all haste.
- A Prot paladin looking at a Ret 2pc set bonus that she normally wouldn't touch because now the stats aren't that bad either.

In a world where tanking plate didn't exist or every loot system used the personal LFR one or 100% efficient reforging then it might work.

We understand that having a lot of haste feels fun and visceral and is more dependable than dodge and parry. We'll try to come up with a solution that keeps that in mind.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic ... age=48#949


This isn't good, and I find it sad. The current system is well-thought, fun and efficient. So of course it has to go, instead of building further improvements from it... What can be salvaged from active mitigation if we are forced to stack avoidance? Even druid tanks don't stack those.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Flex » Thu Jan 24, 2013 11:47 am

Who is going to stack avoidance?
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Mannstein » Thu Jan 24, 2013 11:58 am

Flex wrote:Who is going to stack avoidance?

Blood Spec/Prot/bear/Drunken monk stance gets twice the hit point... aka 1.4Milion on a Heroic equiped tank. Boss hits for 300k...
You don't have avoidance? Prepare to dry the mana from your healers...
You have avoidance? You healers will be able to save mana.

Why increase on the HP? So if a healer can reactively heal if you have bad luck, and to prevent the hard decisions that a Holy pala had in Ulduar:
A) Is the tank at less then 100% life? CAST HOLY LIGHT!
B) Is the tank at "more" then 100% life? CAST HOLY LIGHT!
C) Is the tank not taking any damage? CAST HOLY LIGHT!
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Klaudandus » Thu Jan 24, 2013 12:14 pm

Sagara wrote:Honestly, i'd rather bite the bullet, lose SoB and get done with it than suffer more rollercoaster, and get back to haste (and crit?) stacking in 6.0 where all tank stats DIE !!


Not entirely sure I like how GC replied to you, specially because its not our fault the stat weights have that bias towards Haste
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Sagara » Thu Jan 24, 2013 12:20 pm

I blame the medium, and really took no offense. His answer made sense and I read it as "because we didn't want you to consider Haste the go-to stat and now you're in weird corner where you look outside "your" loot."

Which lead to my next question, which is the most important to me now.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Shoju » Thu Jan 24, 2013 12:26 pm

Mannstein wrote:
Flex wrote:Who is going to stack avoidance?

Blood Spec/Prot/bear/Drunken monk stance gets twice the hit point... aka 1.4Milion on a Heroic equiped tank. Boss hits for 300k...
You don't have avoidance? Prepare to dry the mana from your healers...
You have avoidance? You healers will be able to save mana.

Why increase on the HP? So if a healer can reactively heal if you have bad luck, and to prevent the hard decisions that a Holy pala had in Ulduar:
A) Is the tank at less then 100% life? CAST HOLY LIGHT!
B) Is the tank at "more" then 100% life? CAST HOLY LIGHT!
C) Is the tank not taking any damage? CAST HOLY LIGHT!


Uh.... No. that's not quite how it works. It's not doubling your hit points.
1 more Mastery on a Blood Specc'd DK is more damage mitigation on a hit, guaranteed. I knew that if I increased my mastery by 1 it would increase my blood shield by a set amount, which would decrease the damage I took from a hit. Guaranteed. no guess work. That's why Armor was such a good stat when you could get pieces with bonus armor. It was always there. It always reduced the damage. It was a constant.

Avoidance is a % chance to not be hit. It could give allow you to miss that swing from the boss, or it could fail you, and you still get hit. You could also get really unlucky and have avoidance fail you, multiple times, in a row. It's unlikely, but it could happen. For me, Avoidance was a "take what you get, but don't gear for it."

It's part of what attracted me to the DK when I quit my paladin. The Dk has/d more control over their survival. i'm unsure how the current active mitigation models are working out for the other classes, so I can't speak to how well they are performing. I can just say that I felt more in control with my DK than I did my paladin.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Klaudandus » Thu Jan 24, 2013 12:30 pm

Sagara wrote:I blame the medium, and really took no offense. His answer made sense and I read it as "because we didn't want you to consider Haste the go-to stat and now you're in weird corner where you look outside "your" loot."

Which lead to my next question, which is the most important to me now.


Yeah, but still seems a bit tonedeaf since there is a reason why we look outside our loot, and they knew of the reason for quite a while.

We are just trying to maximize the cards that blizz decided to deal us.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Sagara » Thu Jan 24, 2013 12:51 pm

I don't think he blames us in any way. Feels more like "yeah, we dun goofed, now we have to clean up and annoy you. We're looking for a way right now."
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