patch 5.2 ?

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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Fetzie » Thu Jan 10, 2013 2:35 am

You have a first roll against you:

The first roll decides if the attack will miss, be dodged or parried.

If the attack is not avoided, there is a second roll:

The second roll decides whether the attack will be blocked or not. To guarantee a non-hit, you need 100% block.

Warriors get a tertiary roll to decide if a block will be critical or not.

Lets say you have 5% dodge, 20% parry, 40% block. Fairly typical avoidance and block values when raid buffed.

25% of attacks from a boss are avoided, 75% are eligible to be blocked.

40% of that 75% of attacks are blocked (= 30%). So we have a total of 25+30=55% block+avoid.

Increasing that block chance to 80% results in 60% of all attacks being blocked (0.75*0.8=0.6). So we have 25+60=85% block+avoid.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby theckhd » Thu Jan 10, 2013 7:02 am

Block is on a second roll, so avoidance is irrelevant. You need 104.5% block to be block-capped. Remember that a raid boss negates 4.5% dodge, parry, miss, and block. Also remember that block is on diminishing returns. You need about 207.03% block from mastery before diminishing returns to reach block cap (adding in base and spec bonuses after).

Also note that it reads 40% per Holy Power. So the bonus is probably 120% pre-DR.

You can play around with it on my Tankadin spreadsheet. You can arbitrarily add block chance in cell D16. That's equivalent to arbitrarily adding mastery. Putting in 191.19 (plus the 15.84% from mastery I have already) gets you to block cap (104.5% on char sheet) post-DR.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Sagara » Thu Jan 10, 2013 7:11 am

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So that means a good 90% block from outside sources? Is that even conceivable - I don't see us much higher than 20%...
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby theckhd » Thu Jan 10, 2013 7:13 am

Unless the set bonus is not affected by DR. But that seems awfully unlikely. 120% block without DR automatically block caps us. If you let it be affected by DR, 120% block (put it into cell D16) is about 60% block post-DR, which is still a lot. I wouldn't be surprised if it's supposed to be 40% per 3 holy power (about 30% block post-DR).
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Fetzie » Thu Jan 10, 2013 8:23 am

Unless the "per holy power" was referring to the buff duration, not the block chance (40% block for 5/10/15 seconds instead of 40/80/120% block for 5 seconds).

The former would mean every third ShoR being replaced by a WoG to maintain the buff (would have 3-4 seconds down-time depending on haste level.
Last edited by Fetzie on Thu Jan 10, 2013 8:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Sagara » Thu Jan 10, 2013 8:25 am

Re-reading the set bonus, I'm betting donuts it'll be the time that's flexible.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby KysenMurrin » Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:06 am

I certainly read it as extending the duration.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby benebarba » Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:09 am

Fetzie wrote:Unless the "per holy power" was referring to the buff duration, not the block chance (40% block for 5/10/15 seconds instead of 40/80/120% block for 5 seconds).

The former would mean every third ShoR being replaced by a WoG to maintain the buff (would have 3-4 seconds down-time depending on haste level.


and it would be a way to give people a way to 'proactively' use WoG. Could be interesting.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Worldie » Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:31 am

If you think about it, it wouldnt make any sense to get a buff for "120% block". It would be unintuitive.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby benebarba » Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:42 am

Worldie wrote:If you think about it, it wouldnt make any sense to get a buff for "120% block". It would be unintuitive.

Well, one could argue that the 2-roll system isn't intuitive - but they did that anyway. So I'm not sure that's necessarily a good argument.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Sabindeus » Thu Jan 10, 2013 11:01 am

Yeah I definitely read it as 5 seconds per holy power, and not anything else per holy power.

Side note: DO we know if, after switching to the 2 roll system, that Enemy Defense still reduces your chance to block?
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Newsom » Thu Jan 10, 2013 11:21 am

If it was the block chance that increased it would read "40% additional block chance per Holy Power for 5 sec." - not the other way around.

But yeah, I completely forgot about the 2 roll system. Is it even going to be worth keeping up this buff?
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Fenris » Thu Jan 10, 2013 12:23 pm

Newsom wrote:If it was the block chance that increased it would read "40% additional block chance per Holy Power for 5 sec." - not the other way around.

But yeah, I completely forgot about the 2 roll system. Is it even going to be worth keeping up this buff?

From a totally math-less point of view,i guess it might be when a big hit isn't coming up (since for that you'd still want the damage reduction from BoG)
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Kihra » Thu Jan 10, 2013 2:22 pm

I certainly interpreted it as 40% additional block chance unaffected by DR regardless of HoPo spent. I think the HoPo is just going to affect the duration, so always +40% block for 5/10/15 seconds.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Worldie » Thu Jan 10, 2013 2:37 pm

A RNG set bonus is definitively a useless bonus for a tank, imo.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby theckhd » Thu Jan 10, 2013 3:14 pm

Sabindeus wrote:Side note: DO we know if, after switching to the 2 roll system, that Enemy Defense still reduces your chance to block?

I believe we tested it, but in any event I think it was explicitly mentioned when the new system was explained to us.

Regarding 4-piece: 5 seconds per HP makes a lot more sense than 40% per HP, I agree. That said, it's still problematic for a few reasons:

1) Turns WoG into a buff-maintenance ability. Remember all the complaining about keeping Inq up (hell, Rets still complain about it, unfairly IMO)?

2) Using WoG to maintain the 40% buff eliminates the BoG mechanic. The point of BoG is to give you one powerful WoG as a reactive ability, but not let you spam really big WoGs either. It's a good mechanic. But if you're using WoG to maintain a block buff, you're never going to have enough stacks of BoG to use it properly. A WoG without BoG is pretty weak, and arguably not worth using reactively at all (better to SotR and pray for a big absorb at that point, SotR will mitigate more damage than WoG will heal for).

3) 40% post-DR is a lot of block. We need 104.5% to block cap now. We get 13% passively from talents. Chop another 40% off of that and we're down to 51.5% block required from mastery to cap. 8% of which we have baseline, so 43.5% worth of rating. Still a lot, and probably not attainable in T15 gear yet, but frighteningly close. If you went with an all-out mastery build, dropped hit/exp caps, gemmed and reforged for mastery, you might get close. That's dangerous, for the same reasons it was broken in Cataclysm.

I like the idea of a small mitigation benefit for using WoG, but I sincerely hope it doesn't end up being strong enough to encourage us to maintain the buff.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Fenris » Thu Jan 10, 2013 8:00 pm

Asd

GC just made a post talking about t15 set bonuses

Guess which class is left out of it? XD

Anyway,since it seems they are willing to talk about them right now,i guess this is the right time to ask question like
1) Turns WoG into a buff-maintenance ability. Remember all the complaining about keeping Inq up (hell, Rets still complain about it, unfairly IMO)?
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Klaudandus » Thu Jan 10, 2013 8:24 pm

Fenris wrote:Asd

GC just made a post talking about t15 set bonuses

Guess which class is left out of it? XD

pretty much my reaction...
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Fetzie » Fri Jan 11, 2013 1:21 am

Regarding:
3) 40% post-DR is a lot of block. We need 104.5% to block cap now. We get 13% passively from talents. Chop another 40% off of that and we're down to 51.5% block required from mastery to cap. 8% of which we have baseline, so 43.5% worth of rating. Still a lot, and probably not attainable in T15 gear yet, but frighteningly close. If you went with an all-out mastery build, dropped hit/exp caps, gemmed and reforged for mastery, you might get close. That's dangerous, for the same reasons it was broken in Cataclysm.


43.5% block is 26100 rating without DR, probably more like 33000 rating with DR.

Even if I converted every single point of secondary stat that I have into mastery, I would have ~20000 mastery rating including BoM. Add another 5000 for changing every gem to 320 mastery or whatever the jc gem is and I'd be at about 25000. But, that would mean that every item I had, had the full item budget dedicated to Mastery and nothing else, which isn't going to happen. I doubt we'd be able to get over 30000 Mastery Rating on our gear in T15 gear, heck I'm not sure if it'd be doable in T16.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby theckhd » Fri Jan 11, 2013 6:43 am

Right, but you don't actually need to get to block cap for it to be broken. Even having 80-90% chance to block is pretty broken. And 80% should be very attainable by T16.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby honorshammer » Fri Jan 11, 2013 1:42 pm

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic ... page=7#133

- The Protection 2pc is additive. It's duration is 5sec per Holy Power. We realize there are concerns about this enabling block capping, and are keeping an eye on this, and will adjust if necessary to make sure it doesn’t happen, even later in the expansion.
- The Protection 4pc does incentivize Unbreakable Spirit. We’re considering possible revisions but want to try it like this for now. It's currently "You gain 1 Holy Power for each 20% of your health taken as damage while Divine Protection is active."
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Klaudandus » Fri Jan 11, 2013 1:57 pm

The 4pc bonus seems rather worthless
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Nooska » Fri Jan 11, 2013 2:06 pm

Heads up for those not following GC on twitter, Upgrade NPC foes away in 5.2, still no word on old upgrades or if its coming back.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Flex » Fri Jan 11, 2013 2:35 pm

Nooska wrote:Heads up for those not following GC on twitter, Upgrade NPC foes away in 5.2, still no word on old upgrades or if its coming back.


They'll probably be back in the smaller 5.3 patch.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Nooska » Fri Jan 11, 2013 2:56 pm

follow up. Alreayd upgraded gear won't be touched, whether upgrades will be back later will depend on feedback and what the devs thought of it.
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