patch 5.2 ?

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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Teranoid » Mon Mar 11, 2013 6:25 pm

Oondasta and Nalak can no longer be looted if you're doing cross realm.

Yet another invalidation of their supposed be all end all fix to dead servers. Their stupidity at times is astounding.

And yes I know Galleon was the same way and I said the same thing then.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Klaudandus » Mon Mar 11, 2013 7:01 pm

Teranoid wrote:Oondasta and Nalak can no longer be looted if you're doing cross realm.

Yet another invalidation of their supposed be all end all fix to dead servers. Their stupidity at times is astounding.

And yes I know Galleon was the same way and I said the same thing then.


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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Skye1013 » Mon Mar 11, 2013 7:03 pm

They don't limit the number of times you can gear from those guys do they? I can see that as being the reason why, but it is kind of dumb as a whole. Why not just restrict the number of times you can get loot (like with Sha) unless you use charms?
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby halabar » Mon Mar 11, 2013 9:42 pm

Skye1013 wrote:They don't limit the number of times you can gear from those guys do they? I can see that as being the reason why, but it is kind of dumb as a whole. Why not just restrict the number of times you can get loot (like with Sha) unless you use charms?


It is limited to once per week, as with the rest of the bosses. But people were pulling in from many servers to down Oond.

There's no real problem with this... except.. for low pop servers, and factions that have no hope of pulling together a raid group. But Blizz has steadfastly said FU to factions and servers that can't do this sort of thing.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby halabar » Mon Mar 11, 2013 11:00 pm

The story of the Zandalari isn't over yet!


From the dev interviews...

So, confirmed here first, next xpac is all trolls, all the time...
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby KysenMurrin » Tue Mar 12, 2013 2:03 am

Well, they need to get their money's worth out of all these new troll models. ;)
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Sagara » Tue Mar 12, 2013 2:07 am

Even money says they'll serve as basis for the future PC models, or as a cheap backup if their PC models don't hold up to their standart.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby KysenMurrin » Tue Mar 12, 2013 2:16 am

Not just talking about the generic trolls; there are a bunch of new named quest mobs, bosses, and such that we'll most likely see again. Plus all these dinosaurs.

Jin'rokh I bet will have his new unique model used for a 5-man dungeon boss.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Lieris » Tue Mar 12, 2013 5:51 am

halabar wrote:
The story of the Zandalari isn't over yet!


From the dev interviews...

So, confirmed here first, next xpac is all trolls, all the time...


Troll raids are Blizzard at their best, I am all for this! Zul'aman is the best small raid they have ever done and probably their best content trailer too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_NKOhTSV7M
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Paxen » Tue Mar 12, 2013 7:07 am

No more 5-mans in cata, because they "serve no purpose".

Well, they serve the purpose of being my favorite content in MMOs, fuckers. I got a chance at a Challenge mode group, but if that falls through I'll tell Blizzard what I think of this with my unsub comment.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby KysenMurrin » Tue Mar 12, 2013 8:06 am

Not sure why they're focused on bringing new scenarios but not 5-man instances. Bit of a gulf between 3-player content and raids...
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby benebarba » Tue Mar 12, 2013 8:17 am

KysenMurrin wrote:Not sure why they're focused on bringing new scenarios but not 5-man instances. Bit of a gulf between 3-player content and raids...


I'm thinking because they managed to make the place they fit in shrink to near non-existence.

Scenarios can be tweaked a variety of ways and sizes (as in the designers can make them various ways), but if they ever require a full trinity (healer, DPS, tank), I think you'll go back to the queue issues (which seemed lessened by shorter instances).

At the moment, it could be as simple as there being 'enough' 5 mans for now, and reduced VP costs on older gear meaning that folks in general don't stay there long before moving to LFR (aside from for the VP, which can be gotten elsewhere as well, or challenge modes).

Now what if they introduced a 5/10/25 man scenario?
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Fetzie » Tue Mar 12, 2013 8:29 am

Isn't that basically what LFR is? All they'd have to do is implement the instructions and you'd have a 25 player scenario.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby benebarba » Tue Mar 12, 2013 8:40 am

Fetzie wrote:Isn't that basically what LFR is? All they'd have to do is implement the instructions and you'd have a 25 player scenario.


exactly, well and do away with the trinity need somehow (encounter changes) if we want to define scenarios as 'instanced group PVE content that does not require the traditional healer, tank, DPS composition' (which is how I've come to think of them)

I was thinking something almost closer to the PVE aspects of Alterac Valley than LFR which I think of as closer to a 5-man scaled up. Say something where you and your companions have some series of tasks that need to be performed, and nearly free form of how to do it.

You could have small scenarios like the current ones, or larger all out battles like the seige of undercity or wrathgate type stuff. You could even use this idea for PVP - straight up 'kill the other guy' PVP in different maps (maybe only a couple - but maybe it would work), not objective driven PVP.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby halabar » Tue Mar 12, 2013 8:56 am

On the flip side, I hate 5-mans, and find scenarios boring. I'd much rather have the larger group content, either more LFRs or as suggested above PVE versions of something like AV with specific goals and objectives.

5-mans are fine for leveling, but at 90, the repetition is worse than the dentist, especially when there are no rewards.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby fuzzygeek » Tue Mar 12, 2013 9:57 am

halabar wrote:5-mans are fine for leveling, but at 90, the repetition is worse than the dentist, especially when there are no rewards.


Why would you do them if there's no rewards?

And I don't know that I'd agree with your blanket statement. I've queued and done a few 5s when I was already VP capped just for, you know, fun.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Lieris » Tue Mar 12, 2013 9:58 am

halabar wrote:5-mans are fine for leveling, but at 90, the repetition is worse than the dentist, especially when there are no rewards.


That's because Blizzard completely marginalised them by only making 6 new ones to cover an entire expansion, removed reputation gains from them, made JP useless and didn't put any decent gear in them so of course folk are sick of them and have no reason to do them.

Like I have said before, the tanking-healing-DPSing dynamic is what makes WoW great. By sidelining 5 man content in favour of crap content like scenarios and daily hubs they distance themselves further from the social and cooperative gameplay that I loved so much.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby halabar » Tue Mar 12, 2013 10:14 am

fuzzygeek wrote:
halabar wrote:5-mans are fine for leveling, but at 90, the repetition is worse than the dentist, especially when there are no rewards.


Why would you do them if there's no rewards?

And I don't know that I'd agree with your blanket statement. I've queued and done a few 5s when I was already VP capped just for, you know, fun.


If valor capped, I work on fishing, or arch, or wife-rep or my photography... :-)

It does depend on the 5-man a bit, I can do Jade-temple, but even when leveling I'll take the deserter debuff over doing Shadow-Pan once I've done it once for the quest.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Flex » Tue Mar 12, 2013 10:19 am

Klaudandus wrote:what the? i thought sunreaver onslaught's purples cost only gold, but the clock and rings do cost valor point!


Late stage PTR change with all the various changes to 5.0 LFR drop rates.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Nikachelle » Tue Mar 12, 2013 10:21 am

fuzzygeek wrote:I've queued and done a few 5s when I was already VP capped just for, you know, fun.

Wait... people actually do that?
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Flex » Tue Mar 12, 2013 10:23 am

Nikachelle wrote:
fuzzygeek wrote:I've queued and done a few 5s when I was already VP capped just for, you know, fun.

Wait... people actually do that?

I do.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Sagara » Tue Mar 12, 2013 10:26 am

Same. Just to torch through scholo in 5 pulls total :-p
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby benebarba » Tue Mar 12, 2013 4:06 pm

Lieris wrote:
halabar wrote:5-mans are fine for leveling, but at 90, the repetition is worse than the dentist, especially when there are no rewards.


That's because Blizzard completely marginalised them by only making 6 new ones to cover an entire expansion, removed reputation gains from them, made JP useless and didn't put any decent gear in them so of course folk are sick of them and have no reason to do them.

Like I have said before, the tanking-healing-DPSing dynamic is what makes WoW great. By sidelining 5 man content in favour of crap content like scenarios and daily hubs they distance themselves further from the social and cooperative gameplay that I loved so much.


While I agree with your main point of why 5-mans aren't terribly popular... I do have to wonder about this tanking-healing-DPSing dynamic you mention.

Have you been in the same 5-mans I have? Since they had to step back from the cata launch 5-mans difficulty the tank-DPS relationship is mainly static. DPS-DPS is nonexistant assuming some combination of the players results in sufficient DPS to beat the encounter, Heal-tank is somewhat dynamic, though I find can make them even more bored with good play thanks to AM. Heal-DPS relation is nearly non-existant aside from the occasional party-damage fight. A real integrated dynamic doesn't really show up until LFR, and in some cases not even until normal or heroic mode raiding (I assume, I don't do HMs), IMO.

To be honest, I've found more synergy in good scenario groups with hybrid classes, where folks are doing all sorts of stuff to get the job done (bad ones just hope their deeps is better than the mobs and push facefirst through stuff then ragequit when it doesn't work). Besides, scenarios in my mind are far more a general concept than the ones they've done. I recall reading that they can technically do any size scenario, but that they stuck to small ones to try it out first.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Newsom » Tue Mar 12, 2013 7:57 pm

Yeah, I have to say I'm starting to enjoy scenarios a whole lot more than 5 mans.

I still wish there was really difficult 5 man content though - I'm not a huge fan of the time based component of Challenge Modes. I'd love to see a long 5 man with raid like difficulty (bring back Karazhan!?) where you aren't guaranteed to clear the place even in an organized group.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Koatanga » Tue Mar 12, 2013 8:17 pm

I think some 5-main raid content would be fun, but not if it kills 10-man raiding like 10-man killed 25-man raids. I think it would be great to scale up some of the old raid content for 5-man groups, tweaking some of the mechanics as required to handle 1 tank and 1 healer. Kara, for example, is a fine idea. It was a fun place when relevant, but people just steamroll through it for mog runs if they go in at all.
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