Patch 5.1

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Re: Patch 5.1

Postby Levantine » Fri Dec 14, 2012 4:36 am

Not saying that tit for tat is an acceptable thing when lives are considered, but last time I checked there were civvies in Theramore too. Seems a little rich to get all pissy that Jaina did to the Sunreavers the same that Garrosh did to the people of Theramore. It's like, guys, you started it. Jaina would still be a giant fucking hippy if your douche of a Warchief didn't poke the wrong sleeping dragon.

On a related note, bloodlust is definitely a better fit for Jaina than it was for Varian. I'm enjoying her fury much more than Varian's tantrums.
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Re: Patch 5.1

Postby Sagara » Fri Dec 14, 2012 4:48 am

Levantine wrote:Not saying that tit for tat is an acceptable thing when lives are considered, but last time I checked there were civvies in Theramore too. Seems a little rich to get all pissy that Jaina did to the Sunreavers the same that Garrosh did to the people of Theramore. It's like, guys, you started it. Jaina would still be a giant fucking hippy if your douche of a Warchief didn't poke the wrong sleeping dragon.

On a related note, bloodlust is definitely a better fit for Jaina than it was for Varian. I'm enjoying her fury much more than Varian's tantrums.


I had the same thought. When I look at Jaina right now, she's Garrosh's just desserts (isn't there a mail that the BE believe this shit is as much Garrosh's fault as Jaina's). But she's also and mainly dramatic irony over how the BE reacted to Garithos' actions - blaming an entire group (Alliance/Sunreavers) for an individual's actions (Garithos/the Sunreaver that aided the Horde).

To be completely fair, Aethas should be hunting the Sunreaver traitors, deliver them to Jaina in chains, then he might be in a position to demand excuses and compensation.

Also, I'm still hoping no-one in the top rungs of the BE ruling body ever authorized the bomb, and that Garrosh went over their heads to get his plan done. But that's mostly headcanon right now, if I'm not mistaken.
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Re: Patch 5.1

Postby Passionario » Fri Dec 14, 2012 5:25 am

Sagara wrote:To be completely fair, Aethas should be hunting the Sunreaver traitors, deliver them to Jaina in chains, then he might be in a position to demand excuses and compensation.


You know who else should be hunting them? Jaina.

But wait, that would require effort and could actually be dangerous! So rather than go after the actual perpetrators, she'd rather take out her righteous anger on vendors, profession trainers and that guy who just wanted to withdraw his money from the bank, just because they (a) happen to have wrongly shaped ears and (b) can't realistically fight back. :roll:

The technical term for this behavior is 'collective punishment'. In our world, it is considered a war crime.

Not to mention that her accusations againt Aethas - namely, that he just turned a blind eye and let it happen - are particularly hypocritical considering that she made a career out of standing by and letting bad things happen. Starting from letting Arthas go to Northrend without even trying to stop him (she could freeze him, or polymorph him, or whatever) and ending with the latest fiasco. Yeah, he didn't stop Garrosh's agents from smuggling the Bell through Dalaran - but neither did she, and the Bell was entrusted personally to her for safeguarding.

Levantine wrote:Not saying that tit for tat is an acceptable thing when lives are considered, but last time I checked there were civvies in Theramore too. Seems a little rich to get all pissy that Jaina did to the Sunreavers the same that Garrosh did to the people of Theramore. It's like, guys, you started it. Jaina would still be a giant fucking hippy if your douche of a Warchief didn't poke the wrong sleeping dragon.


"He did the exact same thing!" is a rather dubious excuse when "he" happens to be the main villain of the expansion.

Varian Wrynn: Have you given any thought to what this means, Jaina?
Varian Wrynn: What difference is there between you and Garrosh now?
Jaina: Isn't it obvious, High King? I serve the Alliance. *mocking salute*
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Re: Patch 5.1

Postby Levantine » Fri Dec 14, 2012 6:15 am

I never claimed it as an excuse, merely trying to understand the psyche of the woman who had her Capitol blown away seeking retribution. The face that we know Garrosh is the big bad doesn't mean that the lore characters know this. I highly doubt he'd still have a horde to lead if they did. I can't really see lorthemar, baine, voljin and the sticking by him if they knew for sure. Sylvanas and whoever is in charge of the goblins are crazy though, so they might for the shots and giggles.
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Re: Patch 5.1

Postby Sagara » Fri Dec 14, 2012 6:33 am

Well WoW tends to avoid 4th wall shenanigans, so we'll probably never know.

Honestly, even as a Blood Elf fan, I'm more sorry about Jaina than angry. When Theramore fell, she got a Cooldown Hug from Thrall and Kalecgos, but it seems like there's really no-one to help her cope this time around.

Considering she always blamed herself for Arthas for not having done enough to stop him, the wound must be pretty bitter.

That's weird - Jaina and the Blood Elves were both sent on the path to growth by Arthas, and could probably deeply understand one another. Instead, those same wounds cause them to lash at each other. I wonder: if Arthas hadn't been put down, would he be laughing at the damage his actions kept causing?
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Re: Patch 5.1

Postby Teranoid » Fri Dec 14, 2012 7:06 am

Jaina Proudmoore is a cunt. Always has been. Always will be.
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Re: Patch 5.1

Postby Flex » Fri Dec 14, 2012 10:11 am

An aside, alliance side you are only charged with killing Sunreavers that have sided with the Horde or taken up arms. Those who surrender are placed in The Violet Hold. There are many displaced Sunreavers that are hostile but do not aggro against you and you can gladly skip them.
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Re: Patch 5.1

Postby Passionario » Fri Dec 14, 2012 12:51 pm

Teranoid wrote:Jaina Proudmoore is a cunt. Always has been. Always will be.

Now, now. That's totally uncalled for.

...for starters, she lacks the depth and warmth. :P
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Re: Patch 5.1

Postby Sabindeus » Fri Dec 14, 2012 2:53 pm

Passionario wrote:
Teranoid wrote:Jaina Proudmoore is a cunt. Always has been. Always will be.

Now, now. That's totally uncalled for.

...for starters, she lacks the depth and warmth. :P


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Re: Patch 5.1

Postby Teranoid » Fri Dec 14, 2012 2:55 pm

Passionario wrote:
Teranoid wrote:Jaina Proudmoore is a cunt. Always has been. Always will be.

Now, now. That's totally uncalled for.

...for starters, she lacks the depth and warmth. :P


Thread's over. Time to go home everyone.
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Re: Patch 5.1

Postby Koatanga » Fri Dec 14, 2012 5:51 pm

I'm noticing my threat just isn't cutting it on the pull or in AoE situations. Anyone else have this problem?

On the pull I have no vengeance and it takes 3 stacks of HP to get a shield hit, so I am hitting them with AS on the way in, then HotR (for weakened blows), Judge, and Wrath. Is there a better opening sequence when starting with no HP?

AoE is ridiculous - I tank with a Monk, so I can pull a crowd and hit them with Hammer, but he throws a can of beer and everything turns on him instantly except for my primary target.

I'm losing pack mobs to an elemental shaman using chain lightning, and have had bosses pulled off me on the pull by DPS using cooldowns at the start.

I have refreshed RF thinking it could be bugged, but it made no difference. I am hit capped, and have 10.5 expertise.

Am I opening wrong?
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Re: Patch 5.1

Postby econ21 » Fri Dec 14, 2012 7:15 pm

Sounds like one for the frustrations thread, rather than a patch thread, but yes, I've noticed my AOE thread is abysmal. I tank with a bear and on trash in MV, he rips everything off me. I have to repeatedly taunt even my primary target. If I can get a bit of vengeance, it's fine but without it, I am dead in the water.
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Re: Patch 5.1

Postby Klaudandus » Sat Dec 15, 2012 6:05 pm

Koatanga wrote:I'm noticing my threat just isn't cutting it on the pull or in AoE situations. Anyone else have this problem?

On the pull I have no vengeance and it takes 3 stacks of HP to get a shield hit, so I am hitting them with AS on the way in, then HotR (for weakened blows), Judge, and Wrath. Is there a better opening sequence when starting with no HP?

AoE is ridiculous - I tank with a Monk, so I can pull a crowd and hit them with Hammer, but he throws a can of beer and everything turns on him instantly except for my primary target.

I'm losing pack mobs to an elemental shaman using chain lightning, and have had bosses pulled off me on the pull by DPS using cooldowns at the start.

I have refreshed RF thinking it could be bugged, but it made no difference. I am hit capped, and have 10.5 expertise.

Am I opening wrong?


Feeling the same way here~ Maybe we should twitter bomb GC asking about AoE threat and paladins.
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Re: Patch 5.1

Postby fuzzygeek » Sat Dec 15, 2012 7:25 pm

once i started msv trash while the monk was outside summoning people, so i had a good five or six gcds on the aoe pack. motherfucker comes in with a pair of barrels and rips everything off. this happens less frequently now he's gone stam whilst we work on heroics, but it is ridiculous.

that being said, it is just a small quality of life issue. tanking bosses threat is still a non-issue, and any swap problems are an error on his or my play -- i don't think it matters a whit
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Re: Patch 5.1

Postby Fetzie » Sat Dec 15, 2012 7:28 pm

Yeah, keg smash is ridiculous on AoE.
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Re: Patch 5.1

Postby Kelerei » Sun Dec 16, 2012 12:16 am

On a different note: I got the set of "kill Alliance in their keep" Domination Point quests this morning, and noticed something for the first time: the Alliance NPCs are Warcraft 3 units. The night elf hunters spam Glaive Throw at me, the peasants are gathering gold and lumber exactly as the Warcraft 3 units did, then the footmen, riflemen, etc...

Can't believe I never noticed this before -- brought back quite a lot of nostalgia from 10 years ago.

Any on the blue team noticed the same thing at our base?
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Re: Patch 5.1

Postby Sagara » Sun Dec 16, 2012 1:28 am

It's deliberate. You'll notice we have to kill the Alliance's supply train of peasants, and drop sentry totems left and right for scouting purpose.
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Re: Patch 5.1

Postby Nooska » Sun Dec 16, 2012 8:54 am

I think for me its one of those things that I noticed without noticing it.
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Re: Patch 5.1

Postby Sagara » Sun Dec 16, 2012 9:02 am

Also, what's the hero you'll typicaly be killing for the horde?
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Re: Patch 5.1

Postby Klaudandus » Sun Dec 16, 2012 9:04 am

Lor'themar flipping a bench! Awesome!
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Re: Patch 5.1

Postby Darielle » Sun Dec 16, 2012 3:21 pm

You know who else should be hunting them? Jaina.

But wait, that would require effort and could actually be dangerous! So rather than go after the actual perpetrators, she'd rather take out her righteous anger on vendors, profession trainers and that guy who just wanted to withdraw his money from the bank, just because they (a) happen to have wrongly shaped ears and (b) can't realistically fight back.

The technical term for this behavior is 'collective punishment'. In our world, it is considered a war crime.

Not to mention that her accusations againt Aethas - namely, that he just turned a blind eye and let it happen - are particularly hypocritical considering that she made a career out of standing by and letting bad things happen. Starting from letting Arthas go to Northrend without even trying to stop him (she could freeze him, or polymorph him, or whatever) and ending with the latest fiasco. Yeah, he didn't stop Garrosh's agents from smuggling the Bell through Dalaran - but neither did she, and the Bell was entrusted personally to her for safeguarding.


One thing you're missing is that Blizzard designed the quests for perspective. Horde get the quest implying Jaina's running around killing innocents, Alliance get the quests involving targeted deaths while other people are just picked up or you go past them without doing anything.

Your last paragraph makes zero sense. It's trying to relate 3 different situations that don't actually relate.
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Re: Patch 5.1

Postby Klaudandus » Sun Dec 16, 2012 4:17 pm

I think the best thing about these dailies is that they don't feel grindy at all.

It took less than two weeks to get to exalted if you were doing absolutely everything, and most of the rep came from the storyside quests... more importantly, the storyside quests made it feel like things were changing thanks to you!

Blizz needs to learn about these dailies and make future reputation grinds like this.
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Re: Patch 5.1

Postby Zalaria » Sun Dec 16, 2012 4:39 pm

Klaudandus wrote:I think the best thing about these dailies is that they don't feel grindy at all.

It took less than two weeks to get to exalted if you were doing absolutely everything, and most of the rep came from the storyside quests... more importantly, the storyside quests made it feel like things were changing thanks to you!

Blizz needs to learn about these dailies and make future reputation grinds like this.


I'm not exalted yet (did you use the DM buff? I didn't) but I agree. These are the best dailies they've ever put in the game. My only complaint is Ogudei is too cramped.
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Re: Patch 5.1

Postby KysenMurrin » Sun Dec 16, 2012 4:41 pm

I tend to skip it when Ogudei is the daily set.
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Re: Patch 5.1

Postby Klaudandus » Sun Dec 16, 2012 6:35 pm

Zalaria wrote:
Klaudandus wrote:I think the best thing about these dailies is that they don't feel grindy at all.

It took less than two weeks to get to exalted if you were doing absolutely everything, and most of the rep came from the storyside quests... more importantly, the storyside quests made it feel like things were changing thanks to you!

Blizz needs to learn about these dailies and make future reputation grinds like this.


I'm not exalted yet (did you use the DM buff? I didn't) but I agree. These are the best dailies they've ever put in the game. My only complaint is Ogudei is too cramped.


Nope, never used DMF. I always made sure to kill the ancient beast at the end of the dailies though.
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