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Patch 5.1

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Re: Patch 5.1

Postby Teranoid » Thu Dec 13, 2012 2:58 pm

All I know is I used the d/e option on a roll on a boss drop and got 2 Ethereal Shards out of it.
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Re: Patch 5.1

Postby KysenMurrin » Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:09 pm

I've been greeding everything since I first learned it didn't work, back in Cataclysm. No idea if they've fixed it.
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Re: Patch 5.1

Postby Sagara » Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:14 pm

Flex wrote:
Sagara wrote:Speaking of the Alliance storyline, Jaine went on quite the rampage. Not Arthas-levels of rampage, but WOW. None of Aethas' guards had been hostile, still there she goes OFF WITH YOUR HEADS! Can we get sweet Jaina back? Pretty please? This one's scary as all hell.


Hell no. Her kingdom was destroyed, she's been betrayed not once but twice by the Sunreavers, once at the Battle of Theramore and now with the Divine Bell. She gave Aethas and the rest of the Sunreavers the benefit of doubt after the first and they betrayed her again. Doesn't matter if it is a small subset of the Sunreavers or not, they had their chance and they blew it.

Right now it is pretty much her respect for Anduin that is stopping her from destroying Orgrimmar out right


Don't me wrong, I just LOVE that she grew balls and made a STATEMENT. She didn't pussy-foot around and threw everyone in the same basket of "YOU BETRAYERS". Seriously, the worst the guards did were to stay back with their official weapons up when she pummeled right through them.

I think that's really cool, in fact, compared to say, Varian's "raaaaawr orcs bad" he began with. Jaina's the sweet voice of peace. When SHE snaps, you KNOW someone out there as been horrible. Maybe not the one in the targeting reticle, but you can relate to her anger anyway.
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Re: Patch 5.1

Postby Passionario » Fri Dec 14, 2012 1:15 am

Sagara wrote:Don't me wrong, I just LOVE that she grew balls and made a STATEMENT. She didn't pussy-foot around and threw everyone in the same basket of "YOU BETRAYERS". Seriously, the worst the guards did were to stay back with their official weapons up when she pummeled right through them.


Fortunately for Jaina, there is a clear precedent for this situation. As we all know, if a queen of a city discovers that a rogue subordinate of hers has been up to something bad involving WMDs and subsequently purges said city of him and his faction, everyone in-game and outside it will consider the matter settled and will not, in any way, see it as a sign that she is incompetent and unfit for the position, or consider her fully responsible for said subordinate's actions. Certainly nobody would consider it sufficient grounds for stationing elite guards all over her city with express orders to murder every single citizen should they ever step out of line again... :roll:

OH WAIT
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Re: Patch 5.1

Postby Sagara » Fri Dec 14, 2012 1:40 am

Then again, the Kirin Tor was completely unaffiliated before that sh*tstorm, and Jaina had gathered more trust from the higher ups than Sylvanas ever did. Gothic may be chic, but it doesn't foster trust.

All in all, I'm very happy with what they did, and I can't wait to see how all the big names will react. Jaina *could* have said:

"Sunreavers, you're all suspect of recidivist helping and abetting the Horde despite clear instruction about Dalaran's neutrality. As such, the Kirin Tor must takes extreme measure and limit personal liberties until the full investigation is complete. Anyone found glossing this order will be considered traitor and dealt with accordingly. We guarantee safety and fair treatment of anyone following the edict, and will try and reinstate lost liberties as soon as possible for all the innocent parties involved."

But where's the fun in that? Righteous anger gone wild is a much better story. She'll be looked down on by people inside the Horde and the Alliance, maybe she'll stay her new course, or maybe she'll return to her old "do not mistake individuals for the group" approach, forever burdened by that purge. Or maybe she'll find a way in the middle. Hell, maybe she'll see a similarity with Arthas and Stratholme (I don't think that's a correct comparaison, but it could be done)

Jaina is interesting again, just like Sylvanas after the Wrathgate, and that's very cool in my book. Even if it means she had to make a less than perfect decision.
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Re: Patch 5.1

Postby Sagara » Fri Dec 14, 2012 3:25 am

Maybe. It's not like it's bad in and of itself. At least it would be a "good guy went bad" that made sense.

Let's play pretend: Due to Jaina's decision, Dalaran becomes more and more involved in the war, and Jaina get increasingly furious at the Horde's "underhanded tactics" (legitimatly or not).

Problem is, she tries to push for increasingly pragmatic decisions as time goes, and the situation spirals ever downward, despite continued attempts by Varian to stay in control somehow.

Eventually, tired of Varian's softness that mimics her own youth's foolishness, she goes for the plan she backed out of - she gets the Iris from Kalec, and begins a lethal pogrom, tsunami-style.

No corruption, no sha, no old god, no Legion. Just a broken woman desperatly trying to make sense of her pain.

EDIT: HEY! Where did your post go, Passio'?
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Re: Patch 5.1

Postby Passionario » Fri Dec 14, 2012 3:34 am

Sagara wrote:But where's the fun in that? Righteous anger gone wild is a much better story.


Sometimes I wish that every major lore character would go into that mode.

I want Thrall to sink Stormwind and bury Ironforge. I want to see restored Exodar soaring through the skies and obliterating Horde settlements with plasma fire. I want Sylvanas to raise Arthas as her minion and have him assassinate Jaina. I want Malfurion to animate Teldrassil as a Super-Ancient of Total War and have it march against Orgrimmar. I want Vol'jin to devour Bwonsamdi and unite all Troll tribes of Azeroth under his war banner. I want Mekkatorque and Gallywix to have an epic mountain-levelling duel in gigantic battlemechs.
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Re: Patch 5.1

Postby Sagara » Fri Dec 14, 2012 3:50 am

World of Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann? Me like!

More importantly, it has to make *sense*. In your example, I would SERIOUSLY wonder why would Thrall, Velen, Malf or Vol'jin go in full on RAGE!-mode.

Lor'themar's reaction is much more low-key for example, but just as impressive. He's been shown as filled with self-doubt for a while, so seeing him become so sure of what he should do is really nice.

Still, I wouldn't mind seeing that giant mecha fight, lore be damned.
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Re: Patch 5.1

Postby Nooska » Fri Dec 14, 2012 4:15 am

Just did Purge of dalaran...

***HERE BE SPOILERS***


I did not, and will not agree with what garrosh is doing but the story is very well written and while in the purge, I got more and more infuriated with Jaina (in the context of the story).

Jaina is a rabid dog that must be put down!
She had NO call to indiscriminately attack the civilians (I mean, even the innkeeper) and she is the one esclating this - along with teh alliance. I saw stormwind troops murdering civilian sunreavers - the escalation lies on their shoulders, and the fault for what comes will lie on their shoulders as well - I will NOT accept the slaughter of my people - the alliance has proven again that they do not care about honor or what you can and cannot do.
Taurejo and now Dalaran - Garrosh at least summarily executed the warlord in charge of the bombing of the druid school - I'm looking forward to Varian executing Jaina for unleashing that amount of magic on civilians...

/end Nooska rant (which was an attempt at in character rage)
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Re: Patch 5.1

Postby Nooska » Fri Dec 14, 2012 4:31 am

And final chapter done (hit 999/1k exalted way before finishing the penultimate chapter).

Before we put down Jaina, let us put down garrosh and his pride - though if we get to put down Jaina because she is in the way of putting down Garros, so much the better.

And somebody get the boy som help.
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Re: Patch 5.1

Postby Levantine » Fri Dec 14, 2012 4:36 am

Not saying that tit for tat is an acceptable thing when lives are considered, but last time I checked there were civvies in Theramore too. Seems a little rich to get all pissy that Jaina did to the Sunreavers the same that Garrosh did to the people of Theramore. It's like, guys, you started it. Jaina would still be a giant fucking hippy if your douche of a Warchief didn't poke the wrong sleeping dragon.

On a related note, bloodlust is definitely a better fit for Jaina than it was for Varian. I'm enjoying her fury much more than Varian's tantrums.
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Re: Patch 5.1

Postby Sagara » Fri Dec 14, 2012 4:48 am

Levantine wrote:Not saying that tit for tat is an acceptable thing when lives are considered, but last time I checked there were civvies in Theramore too. Seems a little rich to get all pissy that Jaina did to the Sunreavers the same that Garrosh did to the people of Theramore. It's like, guys, you started it. Jaina would still be a giant fucking hippy if your douche of a Warchief didn't poke the wrong sleeping dragon.

On a related note, bloodlust is definitely a better fit for Jaina than it was for Varian. I'm enjoying her fury much more than Varian's tantrums.


I had the same thought. When I look at Jaina right now, she's Garrosh's just desserts (isn't there a mail that the BE believe this shit is as much Garrosh's fault as Jaina's). But she's also and mainly dramatic irony over how the BE reacted to Garithos' actions - blaming an entire group (Alliance/Sunreavers) for an individual's actions (Garithos/the Sunreaver that aided the Horde).

To be completely fair, Aethas should be hunting the Sunreaver traitors, deliver them to Jaina in chains, then he might be in a position to demand excuses and compensation.

Also, I'm still hoping no-one in the top rungs of the BE ruling body ever authorized the bomb, and that Garrosh went over their heads to get his plan done. But that's mostly headcanon right now, if I'm not mistaken.
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Re: Patch 5.1

Postby Passionario » Fri Dec 14, 2012 5:25 am

Sagara wrote:To be completely fair, Aethas should be hunting the Sunreaver traitors, deliver them to Jaina in chains, then he might be in a position to demand excuses and compensation.


You know who else should be hunting them? Jaina.

But wait, that would require effort and could actually be dangerous! So rather than go after the actual perpetrators, she'd rather take out her righteous anger on vendors, profession trainers and that guy who just wanted to withdraw his money from the bank, just because they (a) happen to have wrongly shaped ears and (b) can't realistically fight back. :roll:

The technical term for this behavior is 'collective punishment'. In our world, it is considered a war crime.

Not to mention that her accusations againt Aethas - namely, that he just turned a blind eye and let it happen - are particularly hypocritical considering that she made a career out of standing by and letting bad things happen. Starting from letting Arthas go to Northrend without even trying to stop him (she could freeze him, or polymorph him, or whatever) and ending with the latest fiasco. Yeah, he didn't stop Garrosh's agents from smuggling the Bell through Dalaran - but neither did she, and the Bell was entrusted personally to her for safeguarding.

Levantine wrote:Not saying that tit for tat is an acceptable thing when lives are considered, but last time I checked there were civvies in Theramore too. Seems a little rich to get all pissy that Jaina did to the Sunreavers the same that Garrosh did to the people of Theramore. It's like, guys, you started it. Jaina would still be a giant fucking hippy if your douche of a Warchief didn't poke the wrong sleeping dragon.


"He did the exact same thing!" is a rather dubious excuse when "he" happens to be the main villain of the expansion.

Varian Wrynn: Have you given any thought to what this means, Jaina?
Varian Wrynn: What difference is there between you and Garrosh now?
Jaina: Isn't it obvious, High King? I serve the Alliance. *mocking salute*
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Re: Patch 5.1

Postby Levantine » Fri Dec 14, 2012 6:15 am

I never claimed it as an excuse, merely trying to understand the psyche of the woman who had her Capitol blown away seeking retribution. The face that we know Garrosh is the big bad doesn't mean that the lore characters know this. I highly doubt he'd still have a horde to lead if they did. I can't really see lorthemar, baine, voljin and the sticking by him if they knew for sure. Sylvanas and whoever is in charge of the goblins are crazy though, so they might for the shots and giggles.
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Re: Patch 5.1

Postby Sagara » Fri Dec 14, 2012 6:33 am

Well WoW tends to avoid 4th wall shenanigans, so we'll probably never know.

Honestly, even as a Blood Elf fan, I'm more sorry about Jaina than angry. When Theramore fell, she got a Cooldown Hug from Thrall and Kalecgos, but it seems like there's really no-one to help her cope this time around.

Considering she always blamed herself for Arthas for not having done enough to stop him, the wound must be pretty bitter.

That's weird - Jaina and the Blood Elves were both sent on the path to growth by Arthas, and could probably deeply understand one another. Instead, those same wounds cause them to lash at each other. I wonder: if Arthas hadn't been put down, would he be laughing at the damage his actions kept causing?
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