Patch 5.1

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Re: Patch 5.1

Postby Worldie » Wed Nov 07, 2012 6:03 am

Holy has some fairly decent DPS right now ;)
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Re: Patch 5.1

Postby Sabindeus » Wed Nov 07, 2012 2:06 pm

Worldie wrote:Holy has some fairly decent DPS right now ;)


this is something I played around with levelling back in cataclysm when we had castable exorcism. The big problem there was hyou had no HP dump until 81 when you get Inquisition, and by that point Ret had also gained many tricks to be significantly superior.

So now that we have harsh words, what's the optimal grinding rotation for holy? I played with it on a dummy a week or so ago and couldn't really figure it out. It seemed like spamming Denounce and Holy Shock on CD and ignoring Judgement/Crusader Strike was the best dps?
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Re: Patch 5.1

Postby Flex » Wed Nov 07, 2012 2:30 pm

My limited experience at 85 on my alt Paladin: Ret in Holy gear is faster than Holy in Holy gear.
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Re: Patch 5.1

Postby Skye1013 » Wed Nov 07, 2012 5:08 pm

Without a Ret spec, just round up ALL THE MOBS and aoe them down. Vengeance should help speed it up (though nothing is likely to be faster than Ret.)
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Re: Patch 5.1

Postby benebarba » Thu Nov 08, 2012 8:45 am

Skye1013 wrote:Without a Ret spec, just round up ALL THE MOBS and aoe them down. Vengeance should help speed it up (though nothing is likely to be faster than Ret.)


Think that'll be limited if you are holy though :P

But yep - I quest as prot and get annoyed when the devs decide to space mobs out so I can't round up 8 of them at a time without one rubber banding. Or to make the lvl 90 dailies go faster, I grab a DPS or healy buddy and go nuts.
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Re: Patch 5.1

Postby Klaudandus » Thu Nov 08, 2012 8:51 am

benebarba wrote:
Skye1013 wrote:Without a Ret spec, just round up ALL THE MOBS and aoe them down. Vengeance should help speed it up (though nothing is likely to be faster than Ret.)


Think that'll be limited if you are holy though :P

But yep - I quest as prot and get annoyed when the devs decide to space mobs out so I can't round up 8 of them at a time without one rubber banding. Or to make the lvl 90 dailies go faster, I grab a DPS or healy buddy and go nuts.

Hah!

Two guildies and i always group together to do shadopan/ac dailies - we call it the shadopan express, we normally finish the quests in less than 25 mins..
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Re: Patch 5.1

Postby benebarba » Thu Nov 08, 2012 9:01 am

Klaudandus wrote:
benebarba wrote:
Skye1013 wrote:Without a Ret spec, just round up ALL THE MOBS and aoe them down. Vengeance should help speed it up (though nothing is likely to be faster than Ret.)


Think that'll be limited if you are holy though :P

But yep - I quest as prot and get annoyed when the devs decide to space mobs out so I can't round up 8 of them at a time without one rubber banding. Or to make the lvl 90 dailies go faster, I grab a DPS or healy buddy and go nuts.

Hah!

Two guildies and i always group together to do shadopan/ac dailies - we call it the shadopan express, we normally finish the quests in less than 25 mins..


Shado-Pan express. I like it.

Tonight, I'm going to begin declaring it like a station operator: "Shado-Pan express, with stops at the Golden Pagoda, Shado-Pan Garrison and Whichever-Temple-They-Say. ALL ABOARD!"

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Re: Patch 5.1

Postby Klaudandus » Thu Nov 08, 2012 9:04 am

With golden lotus included it can take between 35 and 50 mins
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Re: Patch 5.1

Postby Sabindeus » Thu Nov 08, 2012 9:09 am

Skye1013 wrote:Without a Ret spec, just round up ALL THE MOBS and aoe them down. Vengeance should help speed it up (though nothing is likely to be faster than Ret.)


With a Ret Spec: round up ALL THE MOBS and AoE them down using Seal of Light + Glyph of Divine Storm. It will be like twice as fast.
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Re: Patch 5.1

Postby jere » Thu Nov 08, 2012 10:33 am

Sabindeus wrote:With a Ret Spec: round up ALL THE MOBS and AoE them down using Seal of Light + Glyph of Divine Storm. It will be like twice as fast.


I was less successful with that in my ret spec. I could handle smaller groups (8-12ish) in ret, but in prot I tend to round up tons of mobs (30+, especially in the klaxxi zone). I tried that in my ret spec and gear and died pretty quickly. Still, in Prot, pulls like that go really fast for me (I'm sure ret would be faster if I could figure out how to stay alive better). Klaxxi is even easier for me with the zone buffs. I can pull all kinds of stuff there as prot.
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Re: Patch 5.1

Postby Klaudandus » Thu Nov 08, 2012 10:50 am

Klaxxi works nice if you have Children of the Grave (i think?) the one that has a 50% of turning a corpse into an aoe bomb -- so if you round a bunch of adds, start with the ones that have the less total health. Best thing? adds that die to the bomb have a chance of turning into bombs... so as prot, the more targets you have the better cuz all of the sudden, you have all the adds dying to these aoe bombs and die really fast.

Really nice when its the scorpions and turtles
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Re: Patch 5.1

Postby benebarba » Thu Nov 08, 2012 11:00 am

jere wrote:
Sabindeus wrote:With a Ret Spec: round up ALL THE MOBS and AoE them down using Seal of Light + Glyph of Divine Storm. It will be like twice as fast.


I was less successful with that in my ret spec. I could handle smaller groups (8-12ish) in ret, but in prot I tend to round up tons of mobs (30+, especially in the klaxxi zone). I tried that in my ret spec and gear and died pretty quickly. Still, in Prot, pulls like that go really fast for me (I'm sure ret would be faster if I could figure out how to stay alive better). Klaxxi is even easier for me with the zone buffs. I can pull all kinds of stuff there as prot.


o.0 I think in most of the areas, I haven't seen 30 quest mobs (not counting things like the flies that are in groups of like 5-8) in one area let alone close enough to snag them all. I'm lucky if I can round up 10 without someone tagging one or some rubber banding.
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Re: Patch 5.1

Postby Skye1013 » Thu Nov 08, 2012 11:02 am

I'd probably get the one that gets the stacks from absorbing/avoiding hits that turns into an aoe damage/stun for my Enhancement as prot. The Augmentations are more of a toss up since none of them really scream prot to me, but for survival the Amber healing thingy (on the off chance you manage to pull "too much") or maybe the double jump. I generally like the Manipulation one, but I'm not sure what MC'd mob would be good against a group of 30+ :P.
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Re: Patch 5.1

Postby Klaudandus » Thu Nov 08, 2012 11:10 am

Again, get the ones that turn dead mobs into bombs!
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Re: Patch 5.1

Postby Sagara » Thu Nov 08, 2012 11:15 am

Klaudandus wrote:Again, get the ones that turn dead mobs into bombs!


QFT. As a Tank, you'll have a blast (ahah). Grab ALL THE MOBS, then trail the mobs 50 yards and grab ALL THE MOBS again, repeat until satisfied, then focus fire the weakest. When the second bomb pops, enjoy the fireworks - it's not stopping anytime soon.
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Re: Patch 5.1

Postby Sabindeus » Thu Nov 08, 2012 12:14 pm

jere wrote:
Sabindeus wrote:With a Ret Spec: round up ALL THE MOBS and AoE them down using Seal of Light + Glyph of Divine Storm. It will be like twice as fast.


I was less successful with that in my ret spec. I could handle smaller groups (8-12ish) in ret, but in prot I tend to round up tons of mobs (30+, especially in the klaxxi zone). I tried that in my ret spec and gear and died pretty quickly. Still, in Prot, pulls like that go really fast for me (I'm sure ret would be faster if I could figure out how to stay alive better). Klaxxi is even easier for me with the zone buffs. I can pull all kinds of stuff there as prot.


Uh, wow. I wouldn't be able to survive 30 mobs even as Prot. How are you managing that? Raid gear?
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Re: Patch 5.1

Postby Klaudandus » Thu Nov 08, 2012 12:18 pm

There are some klaxxi mobs that do very little damage, I got no problem grabbing 15 or so in a row, problem is trying to prevent them from rubber-banding while getting all the mobs together =P
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Re: Patch 5.1

Postby Nikachelle » Thu Nov 08, 2012 1:04 pm

Taeron wrote:
Nikachelle wrote:
fuzzygeek wrote:As long as LFR is the most efficient means of VP capping, people will do it.

Ehhhh not necessarily true.


Nika, been meaning to ask - how do you go about doing dailies and similar solo stuff since you have prot/holy specs? I was hoping questing in Prot would be at least as smooth as it was in Cata, but I find myself keeping retribution as the obligatory offspec.

It's a bit painful. It's easier now that I've got a bit more gear than a few weeks ago, but it's still slow. I think when I first started doing all the dailies it took me about three to four hours to do them all every day. I'm down to Shado-Pan and August Celestials now so it's not nearly as bad. But for about three weeks it was pretty miserable.

I end up watching a lot of YouTube during them mostly.
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Re: Patch 5.1

Postby Klaudandus » Thu Nov 08, 2012 1:06 pm

HAhaha! I did the same, watched a lot of Mayday/Air Crash Investigations and Seconds from Disaster episodes -- just made my phobia of planes worse =P
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Re: Patch 5.1

Postby Nikachelle » Thu Nov 08, 2012 1:11 pm

Klaudandus wrote:HAhaha! I did the same, watched a lot of Mayday/Air Crash Investigations and Seconds from Disaster episodes -- just made my phobia of planes worse =P

The older I get, the less I can handle plane crash movies, documentaries, etc. I never used to have a problem with them, but as of two years ago I've started to feel really, really wary of them. I know the statistics are such that you're more likely to be in a car crash than a plane crash, but... /shudder.

Doesn't help that an old friend's father died in plane crash about 5 months ago. :|

I'll stick to my YouTube makeup video thanks! ;)
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Re: Patch 5.1

Postby halabar » Thu Nov 08, 2012 1:16 pm

Try doing those dailies on a spriest with great single target but crappy aoe.. hopefully they buff that a bit.
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Re: Patch 5.1

Postby Nikachelle » Thu Nov 08, 2012 1:18 pm

halabar wrote:Try doing those dailies on a spriest with great single target but crappy aoe.. hopefully they buff that a bit.

That's my next 90. And that's depressing. :(
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Re: Patch 5.1

Postby halabar » Thu Nov 08, 2012 1:31 pm

Nikachelle wrote:
halabar wrote:Try doing those dailies on a spriest with great single target but crappy aoe.. hopefully they buff that a bit.

That's my next 90. And that's depressing. :(


On the plus side, if you don't overpull, and do 1-3 at a time (3 is pushing it) with Renew and PoM and perhaps shield and some other spriest tools I haven't learned yet, you can still mow through pretty well, just sucks when you need drops and have to kill 30 to get them.
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Re: Patch 5.1

Postby jere » Thu Nov 08, 2012 1:54 pm

Sabindeus wrote:Uh, wow. I wouldn't be able to survive 30 mobs even as Prot. How are you managing that? Raid gear?


It's not terribly hard as long as you don't go for the groups of (elite?) bugs in sha touched areas. That comment was actually for Townlong Steppes though. I typically end up pulling all 12 serpent binders, their serpents and a few packs of doggies during the mogu chain for shadow pan dailes. I generally start out popping divine protection, then once they are grouped up, pop light's hammer, and rotate through consecration/hotr/judgement and keep spamming ShoR on cooldown. If/when I hit 75% health, I pop Avenging Wrath+Holy Avenger and go crazy on ShoR. Stuff usually all dies around 30-40s after I start that, so I typically have lights hammer ready during the next pull and still have my major cooldowns if needed, but that usually finishes at least one of the quests so I waste some time flying to the next. On the off times where I get dangerously low, I still have LoH, but I don't typically need it. In terms of gear, I was in all 450-463 gear (for both ret and prot sets) with the sha quest boots and the epic klaxxi JP legs on my tanking gear. I've since geared better, but I also finished Shadow pan rep, so it doesn't help me much.

I tried that is ret but wasn't able to survive it all. I could handle about 4 serpent binders+dragons and a single pack of dogs in my ret gear, but I kept dying on the full pull that I normally would do in prot. It could easily be lack of ret experience on my part though.

It's much easier to do big pulls as prot in Dread Wastes though. The iron maiden (edit: sorry, Iron Mantid rather) enhancement is amazing there with large groups.

benebarba wrote:o.0 I think in most of the areas, I haven't seen 30 quest mobs (not counting things like the flies that are in groups of like 5-8) in one area let alone close enough to snag them all. I'm lucky if I can round up 10 without someone tagging one or some rubber banding.


There are plenty of places to grab 30ish mobs in both Dread Wastes and Townlong Steppes (well maybe not for blackguard...way to sparse, but for Wu lai and the mogu ones, that shouldn't be an issue). Just off the top of my head:

Scorpions/Turtles area - 4 groups of scorpions plus some turtles (have to watch cooldowns on this sometimes)
Sha touched areas - plenty of places to round up 30 bugs. The swarmers don't hit hard either, which is nice.
Mogu area - tons of places to get dog packs and pixie packs (they don't hit hard though). There's an area in the NW area of the island (I think it's NW) that has a lot of serpent binders and most people on my server don't go there for the quest. You have to use speed of light to grab a bunch though (and you have to actively tag them cause they are spaced out some) and you need to time things with their knockdowns once you have them grouped.
Bug island - this should be easy to find 30ish together...HOWEVER...I avoid this if there are regenerators (healer) or drones (really damaging spray attack). I typically only get 8-15 of these due to trying to avoid those mobs and not wanting to risk it. Also, avoid most elites if you try this...especially will breakers.

Now Golden lotus is harder for me to get even a group of 8 due to how farmed the dailies are, but when I was doing klaxxi and later on shadow pan, I didn't have much competition at all, so large groups were easy to get there.
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Re: Patch 5.1

Postby Skye1013 » Thu Nov 08, 2012 10:20 pm

halabar wrote:
Nikachelle wrote:
halabar wrote:Try doing those dailies on a spriest with great single target but crappy aoe.. hopefully they buff that a bit.

That's my next 90. And that's depressing. :(


On the plus side, if you don't overpull, and do 1-3 at a time (3 is pushing it) with Renew and PoM and perhaps shield and some other spriest tools I haven't learned yet, you can still mow through pretty well, just sucks when you need drops and have to kill 30 to get them.

I don't mass pull, but I do chain pull on my spriest. Dot up 2-3, burn one down (keeping dots up on all) pull another, rinse and repeat.
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