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Hotfixes...hotfixes...Always the hotfixes

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Hotfixes...hotfixes...Always the hotfixes

Postby Fenris » Tue Oct 02, 2012 7:05 pm

One of our goals with our active mitigation tanking model is that you have opportunities to trade significant survivability for more damage when maximum survivability isn’t required. For example, a Warrior could opt to use their rage for Heroic Strike instead of Shield Block or Shield Barrier. This damage gain is intended to be relatively small, and not worth the loss in survivability when actively tanking.

However, for Protection Paladins, this trade-off was much too lucrative. For maximum survivability, Protection Paladins are intended to use Seal of Insight, since it provides a buff to their self-healing, and also provides a significant self-heal on their melee in combination with Vengeance. Unfortunately, when using Seal of Insight, their damage was too low compared to the other tanks. When using Seal of Truth, their damage was too high. So, we’ve increased Protection Paladin damage in general to compensate for Seal of Insight’s relatively low output, while simultaneously reducing the damage of Seal of Truth to bring it into line.

Holy Wrath now deals 100% more damage.
Avenger's Shield now deals 50% more damage.
Seal of Truth and Censure now deal 80% less damage for Protection Paladins only.

:roll:

So....Now we are forced into seal of insight i guess.I don't really see why they had to nerf SoT so much to make it fit in the "small" dps gain (honestly,i might be[and probably am]wrong but i can't see any reason to switch to it in this version,in any occasion /the "i could be here naked with a spoon for weapon and no seal" ones)

I just hope that at least things are really balanced out as they say (4:30AM,not in the best shape to try and math it out :mrgreen: ) but still...

All tanking hf following

We’ve recently implemented several hot fixes to adjust tank damage output, particularly area of effect (AoE) damage. Now that Mogu’Shan Vaults is available, and the first week of Mists of Pandaria raiding is about to begin, we wanted to call out what’s changing.

Warrior
Warriors have several mechanics that improve their tanking performance when dealing with multiple foes, as well as their damage output against them. Their damage against packs of creatures, especially when three targets were present, was much higher than other tanking classes. While some variance is expected, it was clear that an adjustment was necessary.
The primary culprits here were Revenge and Deep Wounds:

Revenge now deals 50% damage to a secondary target, and 25% damage to a third target.
Deep Wounds now does 50% less damage for Protection Warriors only.


Druid
Bear tanks have been in a decent place, but we were a little concerned about their sustained area of effect damage. This update to Thrash should address that.

The periodic damage of Thrash (Bear) now deals 60% more damage. Initial direct damage remains un-changed.


Monk
We’re really excited about how Brewmaster Monks are turning out. They can still stand a few tweaks though. Their damage, especially AoE damage, was relatively low, and they lacked a way to apply Weakened Blows to a large pack of creatures (which all of the other tanks have).

Keg Smash now deals 50% more damage and strikes all nearby targets, rather than three.
Swift Reflexes now deals 100% more damage.


Death Knight
While Blood Death Knights have been higher on damage than most other tanks, we’re expecting that the adjustments we’re making to the other tanking classes will close the gap. While we haven’t made any changes to Blood lately, we will be keeping a close eye on it.


P.s: for added WTF moments,from the general hotfixes list

Classes
Druid (Forums / Skills / Talent Calculator)

The area of effect damage from Nature's Vigil will no longer hit stealthed targets.
Fixed an issue with Incarnation that could allow flight without using Flight Form.
Dream of Cenarius now correctly increases the healing from Cenarion Ward by 30% instead of 70%.
Starsurge casts that trigger an Eclipse now deal the correct amount of damage.
Mojo is now removed properly when a druid assumes Flight Form.
Symbiosis has been changed, and now grants the following abilities:
-Protection warriors - Stampeding Shout
-Blood death knights - Wild Mushroom: Plague
-Protection paladins - Wrath
-Brewmaster monks - Bear Hug


Protection paladins - Wrath


Wrath


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Last edited by Fenris on Tue Oct 02, 2012 7:50 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Hotfixes...hotfixes...Always the hotfixes

Postby Fetzie » Tue Oct 02, 2012 7:36 pm

Seriously? Are they thinking: "let's make sure the druid NEVER needs to give Symbiosis to protection paladins"?
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Re: Hotfixes...hotfixes...Always the hotfixes

Postby Fenris » Tue Oct 02, 2012 7:43 pm

Pyrea wrote:Seriously? Are they thinking: "let's make sure the druid NEVER needs to give Symbiosis to protection paladins"?

Nah,we can use it to.....pull i guess

No,wait,judgement->AS->one of the lvl 90 talents to cast before the mob gets to me....

During bosses with aerial phases....Where probably tanks will have something else to do (or to flee from)

...


P.s:
Bear hug: blah blah blah.Using this ability activates Bear Form.


Does that means that every non-pandaren monk turns into a bear,while pandaren ones are left in their standard form with a sad face? :lol:
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Re: Hotfixes...hotfixes...Always the hotfixes

Postby econ21 » Tue Oct 02, 2012 10:55 pm

Blizzard wrote:When using Seal of Truth, their damage was too high.


Ouch. Doing dailies, I feel like I've been hitting mobs with a wooden spoon. Is it now going to be a foam bat?

Equalising honor and jp gear is welcome, but sparks a "what were they thinking?" response.
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Re: Hotfixes...hotfixes...Always the hotfixes

Postby Sagara » Tue Oct 02, 2012 11:15 pm

How high is the DTPS during dailies? My guess is they actually want us to hit with a foam bat in low-damage input, and to get to our real levels during dungeons/raiding content.

As to WHY they would want that - beats me. I can "get" the SoI/SoT nuance (which is a breath of fresh air after the SoT domination), but Vengeance still feels "weird".
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Re: Hotfixes...hotfixes...Always the hotfixes

Postby Skye1013 » Tue Oct 02, 2012 11:17 pm

econ21 wrote:
Blizzard wrote:When using Seal of Truth, their damage was too high.


Ouch. Doing dailies, I feel like I've been hitting mobs with a wooden spoon. Is it now going to be a foam bat?

Hopefully this part will help, especially in a 3 mob scenario:
Holy Wrath now deals 100% more damage.
Avenger's Shield now deals 50% more damage.
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Re: Hotfixes...hotfixes...Always the hotfixes

Postby Worldie » Tue Oct 02, 2012 11:27 pm

Seembs like they weren't happy with tanks gaining a extra survivability cooldown with Symbiosis. Oh well I can remove Symbiosis from my protection bars I guess which are already enough crowded as it is.


Extra note: Valor gear gone down to Honored reputation rather than Revered.
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Re: Hotfixes...hotfixes...Always the hotfixes

Postby Torquemada » Wed Oct 03, 2012 12:06 am

Given that 20% of 12% 2.4%, does that mean that Righteousness is better for damage now? Or does Censure at 5 stacks still overcome it for single target? At that level of output, Insight definitely seems a better choice for survivability and progression. If your dps is relying on that 2.4%, they probably forgot to flask.
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Re: Hotfixes...hotfixes...Always the hotfixes

Postby Rokh » Wed Oct 03, 2012 12:14 am

If insight is something to be considered now, anyone know how much battle healer heals for?

http://www.wowhead.com/spell=119477
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Re: Hotfixes...hotfixes...Always the hotfixes

Postby econ21 » Wed Oct 03, 2012 12:16 am

Worldie wrote:Extra note: Valor gear gone down to Honored reputation rather than Revered.


My reading of that is SOME VP gear has gone down to honored - iirc, the smaller items (neck, bracer, cloak, ring). The big ticket stuff has not.
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Re: Hotfixes...hotfixes...Always the hotfixes

Postby Sagara » Wed Oct 03, 2012 12:28 am

Rokh wrote:If insight is something to be considered now, anyone know how much battle healer heals for?

http://www.wowhead.com/spell=119477


This hinges on two questions:

1) What attacks proc Battle Healer? Autoattack only? CS/HotR? Judge/AS?
2) Does Vengeance affect Battle Healer?

If Yes to both, this glyph is going to be a *very* nice option.

For the record, add a third question:

3) Is the heal smart or random?
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Re: Hotfixes...hotfixes...Always the hotfixes

Postby PsiVen » Wed Oct 03, 2012 12:34 am

I'm puzzled by the sudden statement that using Seal of Insight is intended. As far as I can tell it was never intended (they were surprised by the behavior in Cata beta / early release when nobody cared about their tank DPS), and they made no effort to change that. It's still pretty bad. Battle Healer might bring it to tolerably useful, I guess, but with the new Vengeance I find myself in a much more significant damage role and I don't feel like a piddly bit of healing would make as much of a difference as some more DPS.

Prot trying to do dailies is a real problem and this makes it even worse. Ugh...
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Re: Hotfixes...hotfixes...Always the hotfixes

Postby Sagara » Wed Oct 03, 2012 12:43 am

PsiVen wrote:I'm puzzled by the sudden statement that using Seal of Insight is intended. As far as I can tell it was never intended (they were surprised by the behavior in Cata beta / early release when nobody cared about their tank DPS), and they made no effort to change that. It's still pretty bad. Battle Healer might bring it to tolerably useful, I guess, but with the new Vengeance I find myself in a much more significant damage role and I don't feel like a piddly bit of healing would make as much of a difference as some more DPS.

Prot trying to do dailies is a real problem and this makes it even worse. Ugh...


I think you're mixing up things a bit. They didn't intend us to use SoI back in Cata, but that doesn't make it impossible they considered SoI/SoT our "defensive/offensive" switch for MoP. Unless something flew right over my head. I just re-read theck's number during beta, and the tossup between SoI/SoT seemed roughly equal.

So, what just happened is basically:

1) Our DPS is supposed to stay equal (which is: shitty on solo content).
2) We now get a choice between DPS and healing that is more in favor of healing. Doesn't mean we SHOULD always roll SoI, only that the option is more attractive. If we can survive without SoI, SoT ahoy!
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Re: Hotfixes...hotfixes...Always the hotfixes

Postby Hespherus » Wed Oct 03, 2012 1:24 am

Rokh wrote:If insight is something to be considered now, anyone know how much battle healer heals for?

http://www.wowhead.com/spell=119477

Id be interested in this too.
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Re: Hotfixes...hotfixes...Always the hotfixes

Postby Sagara » Wed Oct 03, 2012 1:42 am

Quick follow-up. I've looked back at theck's numbers from his MATLAB thread. If I'm not mistaken, AS and HW have taken over Cons for single target.

I'm mighty curious about what our resident headache lord will be able to infer.

Extra EDIT: Just saw theck's latest tweet. :lol: At least his opinion on the matter will be clear!
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