So I heard Blizzard is losing customers

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Re: So I heard Blizzard is losing customers

Postby Fivelives » Sat Aug 04, 2012 2:34 am

Old game is old. Nothing in WoW is new and shiny anymore - call it the 7 year itch. I imagine that's what they expected, and is probably why they started development on an unannounced MMO a couple of years ago. That belief was reinforced when they opened up the year-long agreement deal.

Any expansion past Cata is probably just cash grabbing via formula anymore, and I'm pretty sure that there's going to be a continued drop-off in subscriber numbers.

My only question is, will the next MMO they put out be World of Warcraft 2? Or will it be based off Starcraft or Diablo instead. I'd bet on Starcraft as a pvp-centric MMO with 3 factions.
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Re: So I heard Blizzard is losing customers

Postby KysenMurrin » Sat Aug 04, 2012 2:35 am

They've repeatedly said the MMO known as Titan wil be an entirely new IP.
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Re: So I heard Blizzard is losing customers

Postby Fivelives » Sat Aug 04, 2012 2:40 am

I doubt it'll be an entirely new IP, despite what they've been saying.
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Re: So I heard Blizzard is losing customers

Postby bldavis » Sat Aug 04, 2012 6:40 am

Fivelives wrote:I doubt it'll be an entirely new IP, despite what they've been saying.

same here
and i am betting it will be starcraft based as well

set either before SC1, or after the protoss xpack for SC2
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Brekkie:Tanks are like shitty DPS. And healers are like REALLY distracted DPS
Amirya:Why yes, your penis is longer than his because you hit 30k dps in the first 10 seconds. But guess what? That raid boss has a dick bigger than your ego.
Flex:I don't make mistakes. I execute carefully planned strategic group wipes.
Levie:(in /g) It's weird, I have a collar and I dont know where I got it from, Worgen are kinky!
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Re: So I heard Blizzard is losing customers

Postby Worldie » Sat Aug 04, 2012 7:31 am

A starcraft MMO would be... awesome! But I doubt that's ever gonna happen :)
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Re: So I heard Blizzard is losing customers

Postby bldavis » Sat Aug 04, 2012 9:33 am

Worldie wrote:A starcraft MMO would be... awesome! But I doubt that's ever gonna happen :)

well its either WoW 2, Diablo MMO, SC MMO, or new IP
im not sure ppl would want a WoW 2, the lore is so fucked up as it is

Diablo...not much else to do, plus i cant see a dungeon crawler becoming an MMO that well (then again i cant see an RTS turning MMO, but we have WoW)

iirc, bungie was developing it with Blizz, and aren't they famous for Halo? (i know its some space-esque shooter) which has me leaning towards SC MMO

fixes the faction pvp issues of WoW, has a steady following already, and can provide alot of variety in gameplay (which would be nice)

i can already see the classes/roles for each race

marine - ranged, maurader - tank, firebat - melee and medic (duh) for terran, w

zerg - roach (tank) hydra (ranged) zergling (melee) and queen as healer?

protoss - zealot - melee dps, immortal - tank, sentry - heals/ranged dps, and stalker - ranged dps

there are even mounts in game too! (with a lil tweaking)
helions and siege tanks as ground mounts, maybe a drop ship as a flying mount? or a viking?
zerg flying mounts could be overlords/mutas with land mounts being ultralisks?
and protoss you have colossi and warp prism/phoenix

they even have a built in portal system with nydus worms and warping in for protoss
the terran have hyper space on capital ships :?


now that i have all this out, it will be really weird if this is what they do :?
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Brekkie:Tanks are like shitty DPS. And healers are like REALLY distracted DPS
Amirya:Why yes, your penis is longer than his because you hit 30k dps in the first 10 seconds. But guess what? That raid boss has a dick bigger than your ego.
Flex:I don't make mistakes. I execute carefully planned strategic group wipes.
Levie:(in /g) It's weird, I have a collar and I dont know where I got it from, Worgen are kinky!
Levie:Drunk Lev goes and does what he pleases just to annoy sober Lev.
Sagara:You see, you need to *spread* the bun before you insert the hot dog.
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Re: So I heard Blizzard is losing customers

Postby halabar » Sat Aug 04, 2012 9:43 am

Worldie wrote:A starcraft MMO would be... awesome! But I doubt that's ever gonna happen :)


It would be awesome for a while, but unless they address gear inflation in an entirely different way, it wouldn't have the legs that WoW has. (Is that your ilvl 595 laser gun, or are you just happy to see me..)

Fantasy is pretty crowded now, and would be too close to WoW. Space has been done. Halo-war-type would be limiting.

The IP that I would like to see is Steampunk. You have a lot of ways you can go with that.
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Re: So I heard Blizzard is losing customers

Postby Torquemada » Sat Aug 04, 2012 9:45 am

I'm going to be very interested to see what they do to tie Heart of the Swarm into WoW... like perhaps an annual pass, but maybe not for an entire year because you're still only buying 1/3rd of the campaign. After 2 years in South Korea, with cable tv that had not one, but TWO channels dedicated to StarCraft and that was even before SC2 came out... yeah, say goodbye to a few more Asian players when that finally drops.
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Re: So I heard Blizzard is losing customers

Postby bldavis » Sat Aug 04, 2012 9:47 am

halabar wrote:
The IP that I would like to see is Steampunk. You have a lot of ways you can go with that.

there was an MMO that totalbiscuit covered with a steampunk setting

looked cool



that and i have no faith in blizz to pull steampunk off right

edit: found the video!
WTF is ....City of Steam
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Brekkie:Tanks are like shitty DPS. And healers are like REALLY distracted DPS
Amirya:Why yes, your penis is longer than his because you hit 30k dps in the first 10 seconds. But guess what? That raid boss has a dick bigger than your ego.
Flex:I don't make mistakes. I execute carefully planned strategic group wipes.
Levie:(in /g) It's weird, I have a collar and I dont know where I got it from, Worgen are kinky!
Levie:Drunk Lev goes and does what he pleases just to annoy sober Lev.
Sagara:You see, you need to *spread* the bun before you insert the hot dog.
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Re: So I heard Blizzard is losing customers

Postby halabar » Sat Aug 04, 2012 9:54 am

bldavis wrote:
halabar wrote:
The IP that I would like to see is Steampunk. You have a lot of ways you can go with that.

there was an MMO that totalbiscuit covered with a steampunk setting

looked cool



that and i have no faith in blizz to pull steampunk off right


On one hand you could say they have the resources, on the other hand I might be 65 before it comes out..

But after the mild dissapointment with SC2, and then the same pattern for D3, there is certainly room to raise doubt if Blizz could ever create another new IP hit in today's market. (Then again, no one else is either... WoW may be the exception to the rule).
Amirya wrote:... because everyone needs a Catagonskin rug.

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Re: So I heard Blizzard is losing customers

Postby bldavis » Sat Aug 04, 2012 10:04 am

WoW may be the exception to what rule?
New IP being a hit

WoW is based on one of the oldest IPs they have
warcraft was around before starcraft and diablo iirc

WoW is just a juggernaught that seems to be finally losing a little steam
it was the first big western MMO that got away from teh grind of eastern titles

you dont have to be the best, you just have to be the first
you be first, do reasonably well, and you are set

with games like GW2, Wildstar and a few others coming out in the near future, we are seeing the next evolution in MMOs
i dont know if they will be good evolutions, or if they will be enough to bring wow to its knees (im almost certain it wont) but they will start chipping away at the 8 year old game

WoW is still a great game, and still has a HUGE following, still 10 times what SWTOR had at its peak, but it is getting long in the tooth and its only a matter of time before it falls

SC2 i enjoyed, having not played the first one.
D3....was a miss in my books, but that is with playing the beta and watching a play through for the story

honestly, im not sure blizzard could come up with something that would be a runaway smash hit to take over wow
anything they do release would be a hit...at least for a while, just because it was a Blizzard product
Image

Brekkie:Tanks are like shitty DPS. And healers are like REALLY distracted DPS
Amirya:Why yes, your penis is longer than his because you hit 30k dps in the first 10 seconds. But guess what? That raid boss has a dick bigger than your ego.
Flex:I don't make mistakes. I execute carefully planned strategic group wipes.
Levie:(in /g) It's weird, I have a collar and I dont know where I got it from, Worgen are kinky!
Levie:Drunk Lev goes and does what he pleases just to annoy sober Lev.
Sagara:You see, you need to *spread* the bun before you insert the hot dog.
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Re: So I heard Blizzard is losing customers

Postby Teranoid » Sat Aug 04, 2012 11:02 am

After Diablo 3's failures I'm pretty sure the general gaming public wouldn't go near a Diablo mmo
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Re: So I heard Blizzard is losing customers

Postby Darielle » Sat Aug 04, 2012 3:32 pm

masterpoobaa wrote:Subs will come back up with panda like every expansion. WoW keeps on keeping on.
Myself I've gone full circle - noob, scrub, casual raider, quasi hardcore raider, quit, resub and back to noob/scrub :)


In reality, for every prior expansion, subs come back BEFORE the expansion ends. After the expansion hits is when they drop again because everyone who levelled up and can't be bothered raiding quits again.
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Re: So I heard Blizzard is losing customers

Postby Jarvick » Sat Aug 04, 2012 3:38 pm

Wow, is on the decline but no one or no MMO has been able to top it, Wow will fall by itself, after 8 years people want a change, I know alot of people will say GW2 took Wow down but even without GW2 WoW is sliding into what seems like a grave. If Numbers hold over 10 million, you might, MIGHT get one more exspansion from Wow. But I think GW2 will be just like Age of Conan, Warhammer, Lord of the Rings, etc. it will do well for maybe a year but when people see it is what it is, they will leave it to. If Blizzard wants to stay on top (meaning they are working on a New MMO) they need fresh minds, they do not need the people who are doing WoW now. Wow was at its best Pre-BC, Only thing was 40 man raids were a pain in the butt.
I think MoP is a joke, nothing about it makes me want to come back, I walked away Feb 11th 2011 and the only reason I find myself wanting to come back, is I missed raiding (not hard core, but the fun stuff learning content, etc.) I wished I would stuck with Cata cause it seemed very good, I hated WotLk, Pre-BC was my favorite, even with all the things that needed to be fixed it was better imo. ( I say that cause I only played Cata for about 4 months and didnt get to do alot of the raids)

I think MoP is Blizzards way of appealing to the younger people who play this game, but I think they are going about it the wrong way. WoW does seem like it will die, but when? And will there be anything that will ever compare to it? My instints tell me no.

StarCraft- Not a fan, tried Star Trek, almost did Knights but its not the same, I would propbably skip on that tag, Same with Diablo MMO.

I would almost rather see them do a Wow 2.0, then do those others.
Last I know alot of people are coming away from the game, but I see people coming back, not because of MoP but because there is nothing else that comes close to it.
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Re: So I heard Blizzard is losing customers

Postby Fetzie » Sat Aug 04, 2012 8:27 pm

Teranoid wrote:After Diablo 3's failures I'm pretty sure the general gaming public wouldn't go near a Diablo mmo


The way that they are frantically trying to balance everybody's damage you could have fooled me that we currently have a diablo MMO...


BLizzard really needs to up their game. So many good games are now BtP (e.g. GW2), F2P until max level (e.g. SW:ToR from September). With people seeing that you no longer need to pay for the box and a monthly sub, the additional value you get from playing WoW needs to go up. Dragon Soul effectively cost the players nearly 100 euros (8 months subscription between firelands and DS). If they don't make it worth that money, people are going to go somewhere else where they can get raid content for free or for a small fee.
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Sagara wrote:You see, you need to *spread* the bun before you insert the hot dog.

bldavis wrote:we are trying to extend it as long as we can...it just never seems to last very long
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Re: So I heard Blizzard is losing customers

Postby PsiVen » Sun Aug 05, 2012 1:28 am

masterpoobaa wrote:Figures are out on mmo-champ.
Last quarter wow lost 1.1mill subs... But I imagine many/most? Are due to D3.


Weren't they saying that D3 isn't even available in China yet? If the vast majority of losses were in the East that implies that D3 barely made a dent. And judging by >10 million D3 sales and only 1.2 million annual passes, most people are fine with buying other games to play without committing to or quitting WoW.

In my experience few people actually unsub right when they quit playing. It takes months to realize you aren't really playing anymore, unless you premeditate with a month-to-month plan and force yourself to quit which is usually not driven by a new game coming out. The majority of losses due to D3 will appear gradually from Jun-Jul-Aug and spike somewhat in Oct for the people with Annual Pass who don't give MoP a chance but stuck with D3 (if they didn't like either they could cancel the Pass and give up the D3 license).

Apparently they attributed their big losses last year to the East as well. The problem is that the two don't necessarily jive -- masses leaving early in Cataclysm suggest they disliked the challenging content, while those leaving during Dragon Soul presumably dislike the lack of it. WoW has a very strange release history in the East. I'm honestly not sure what their expectations are -- my understanding is that certain regions had TBC for a very long time until WotLK was finally released less than a year before Cataclysm's launch. That would produce a very different dynamic for the playerbase, and one that is highly disconnected from Blizzard itself who unfortunately have not conscripted Liberty Prime to deliver their product.


Fivelives wrote:Old game is old. Nothing in WoW is new and shiny anymore - call it the 7 year itch. I imagine that's what they expected, and is probably why they started development on an unannounced MMO a couple of years ago. That belief was reinforced when they opened up the year-long agreement deal.

Any expansion past Cata is probably just cash grabbing via formula anymore, and I'm pretty sure that there's going to be a continued drop-off in subscriber numbers.

My only question is, will the next MMO they put out be World of Warcraft 2? Or will it be based off Starcraft or Diablo instead. I'd bet on Starcraft as a pvp-centric MMO with 3 factions.


I don't expect WoW to decline all that dramatically unless a real newcomer manages to shake up the market in its own right. Titan perhaps, though if they're going in the hinted-rumor direction of a heavily casual/social network deal in an unfamiliar new IP, that will crash and burn. No recent MMO has come even close to convincing WoW players to convert en masse. The polish isn't there, and they're making all the same mistakes Blizzard did in the past PLUS the ones they still make today. I could probably write a book on all the terrible ways that developers have tried to emulate Blizzard and gotten it catastrophically wrong.

Who's to say WoW will ever die in the foreseeable future? They could easily release an expansion that replaced the entire engine and massively restructured in a way indistinguishable from "WoW 2" but without having to worry about splitting the market. Saying that Warcraft is dying could one day be as ridiculous as suggesting that Mario is dying.
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Re: So I heard Blizzard is losing customers

Postby halabar » Sun Aug 05, 2012 10:50 am

Jarvick wrote:And will there be anything that will ever compare to it? My instints tell me no.


Quite likely.

If WoW launched today, it would probably fail. Frankly, I wonder if the whole MMO market would exist with any real success if WoW was never launched.

If any game is going to surpass WoW, it's going to need to develop community, and I don't know if any game will ever be able to create the diverse community that WoW still has. Other games like EVE have a loyal community, but not nearly the diverse one that WoW has.
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Re: So I heard Blizzard is losing customers

Postby Fridmarr » Sun Aug 05, 2012 11:43 am

Oh, I think if SWOTR launched today in a mostly MMOless world (like when wow launched) it'd be just fine. The problem is that the audience is much more mature now having had plenty of experience with WoW. To do well, you not only have to bring new people into the genre, but you also have to pull people away from other MMOs that they may have been entrenched in for the better part of a decade. You can't do that, in my opinion, unless you have a product that is very different and new. It also has to have a level of polish and end game activity that is quite difficult for a new game because of timeline pressures.
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Re: So I heard Blizzard is losing customers

Postby theckhd » Sun Aug 05, 2012 12:49 pm

halabar wrote:If WoW launched today, it would probably fail.

I actually highly doubt that. WoW is still one of the more accessible MMOs, which is what set it apart from games like Everquest. That, combined with a well-established IP with a devoted following more or less ensured its success, then or now. Don't underestimate the draw the Blizzard name has. There are people (myself included) that have been playing in the Warcraft universe since Ors & Humans. You could say similar things for Starcraft and the original Diablo. Having a pre-existing fan base is huge for a new game.


halabar wrote:Frankly, I wonder if the whole MMO market would exist with any real success if WoW was never launched.

I think it depends on how you define "real success." Keep in mind that games like Everquest and DAoC were wild successes back in the day, and neither of them ever broke 500k subscribers. I think WoW has raised the bar in that respect, in that everyone seems to believe a game needs millions of subscribers to be successful.

I think in a WoW-less world, there would be more MMOs with fewer players each. And probably fewer players overall, as well - WoW's accessibility is a large part of its success, and I suspect that drew a lot more players into MMO gaming than most people realize.
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Re: So I heard Blizzard is losing customers

Postby Koatanga » Sun Aug 05, 2012 1:41 pm

I find it difficult to credit the WoW subscription drop to D3, because I would figure a lot of WoW+D3 players would have opted for the free game on the 1 year WoW committment, which hasn't expired yet if you got in on the first day it was offered.
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Re: So I heard Blizzard is losing customers

Postby bldavis » Sun Aug 05, 2012 2:05 pm

hell i know i played WoW in part due to my experiences in D2
company name has a lot to do with it
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Brekkie:Tanks are like shitty DPS. And healers are like REALLY distracted DPS
Amirya:Why yes, your penis is longer than his because you hit 30k dps in the first 10 seconds. But guess what? That raid boss has a dick bigger than your ego.
Flex:I don't make mistakes. I execute carefully planned strategic group wipes.
Levie:(in /g) It's weird, I have a collar and I dont know where I got it from, Worgen are kinky!
Levie:Drunk Lev goes and does what he pleases just to annoy sober Lev.
Sagara:You see, you need to *spread* the bun before you insert the hot dog.
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Re: So I heard Blizzard is losing customers

Postby Teranoid » Sun Aug 05, 2012 3:01 pm

Koatanga wrote:I find it difficult to credit the WoW subscription drop to D3, because I would figure a lot of WoW+D3 players would have opted for the free game on the 1 year WoW committment, which hasn't expired yet if you got in on the first day it was offered.


They said only a little over a million got the Annual Pass and D3 sold over 3.5 million copies the first day alone so it's highly likely that it was a large contributor.
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Re: So I heard Blizzard is losing customers

Postby Darielle » Sun Aug 05, 2012 3:01 pm

Pretty much every MMO has dropped the ball in some way or other. Usually it's just plain lack of content. RIFT's probably the closest in terms of getting it right, and the amount of content they're putting out is really good - even Blizzard could probably learn from that.

Saying that Warcraft is dying could one day be as ridiculous as suggesting that Mario is dying.


Hey, man, compared to the original, Mario is dead to me!
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Re: So I heard Blizzard is losing customers

Postby Jarvick » Sun Aug 05, 2012 5:06 pm

Darielle wrote:Pretty much every MMO has dropped the ball in some way or other. Usually it's just plain lack of content. RIFT's probably the closest in terms of getting it right, and the amount of content they're putting out is really good - even Blizzard could probably learn from that.

Saying that Warcraft is dying could one day be as ridiculous as suggesting that Mario is dying.


Hey, man, compared to the original, Mario is dead to me!


I agree with the whole content, needs to be regular but not too rushed, good video, I do not agree with all of it but do agree with the stand out of hard core raiding, should feel like a Epic quest, we dont have it anymore.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rd0-zVIBVo
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Re: So I heard Blizzard is losing customers

Postby masterpoobaa » Sun Aug 05, 2012 7:32 pm

TBH. I approve.
Questing > Dungeons > Heroics > entry level raiding.
its a snozefest now.

Having said that, I also found todays Daily Blink comic amusing.
http://www.thedailyblink.com/2012/08/f2 ... -comments/
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