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MoP Wish List........"I'd like......."

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Re: MoP Wish List........"I'd like......."

Postby bldavis » Sat Mar 17, 2012 3:15 pm

Pyrea wrote:
i dont mean things like orbs or saronites like in Wrath, make it something like special leather/ore/cloth that can only be gathered in there


You mean like the special Thorium in Zul'Gurub, Core Leather in MC and the frozen scraps in Naxxramas?

being i dont remember any of those....


sure? :?
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Re: MoP Wish List........"I'd like......."

Postby Lieris » Sat Mar 17, 2012 10:02 pm

theckhd wrote:I think having three difficulty settings suits me much better than just one, especially given that without the normal/heroic divide we wouldn't be getting encounters that are as difficult as heroic modes.


I don't like the multiple difficulties because they force my guild to do content we are too good for. Doing LFR for tier is aggravating, as is having to do normal modes to unlock heroic and having to cut short heroic progress an hour before the end of the raid to clear on normal. You also have the problem of the meta achievements being prohibitive or impossible on heroic. There is no "choice" for us, we have to do the easy stuff to be competitive.

I also don't think the fights are significantly different from LFR to heroic other than numbers which makes me seriously question if the time investment is worth it. I raid for a challenge but I also raid to see new things and that sense of wonder when you unlock something new that most people won't see. If anyone with a pulse can see it on week one (or two) with LFR then it can't be special, it's mundane.
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Re: MoP Wish List........"I'd like......."

Postby Qeeze » Sun Mar 18, 2012 2:30 am

theckhd wrote:I think having three difficulty settings suits me much better than just one, especially given that without the normal/heroic divide we wouldn't be getting encounters that are as difficult as heroic modes.


I doubt Blizzard plans to change things in MoP.

3 levels of difficulty is plenty.

In less than 24 hours though we'll get a lot of info to digest.
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Re: MoP Wish List........"I'd like......."

Postby Fetzie » Sun Mar 18, 2012 4:28 am

bldavis wrote:
Pyrea wrote:
i dont mean things like orbs or saronites like in Wrath, make it something like special leather/ore/cloth that can only be gathered in there


You mean like the special Thorium in Zul'Gurub, Core Leather in MC and the frozen scraps in Naxxramas?

being i dont remember any of those....


sure? :?


http://old.wowhead.com/spell=26087

http://old.wowhead.com/spell=28208

http://old.wowhead.com/spell=23708


I was thinking about stuff like this :)


On another note, I would love them to fix it that you do not need to reclear trash after changing from normal to heroic.
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Re: MoP Wish List........"I'd like......."

Postby benebarba » Sun Mar 18, 2012 5:17 am

Lieris wrote:
theckhd wrote:I think having three difficulty settings suits me much better than just one, especially given that without the normal/heroic divide we wouldn't be getting encounters that are as difficult as heroic modes.


I don't like the multiple difficulties because they force my guild to do content we are too good for. Doing LFR for tier is aggravating, as is having to do normal modes to unlock heroic and having to cut short heroic progress an hour before the end of the raid to clear on normal. You also have the problem of the meta achievements being prohibitive or impossible on heroic. There is no "choice" for us, we have to do the easy stuff to be competitive.

I also don't think the fights are significantly different from LFR to heroic other than numbers which makes me seriously question if the time investment is worth it. I raid for a challenge but I also raid to see new things and that sense of wonder when you unlock something new that most people won't see. If anyone with a pulse can see it on week one (or two) with LFR then it can't be special, it's mundane.


But I think Theck is pointing out that if there was only 1 difficulty level, given the current views of Blizzard, It'd likely be between LFR and Normal more than between Normal and Heroic. You'd probably still be doing content below your challenge level but have no option to do anything at your challenge level. With regards to the meta-game of progression and its impact on guilds, I really am not sure how much Blizz can do about that, short of making heroic modes accessible to whoever wants to try them on day 1 and allowing it to be clear that normal mode progression and heroic modes progression are completely separate (which I actually thought they were - sounds like this is not the case?). But I can't imagine the player base mindset will easily change from the current mindset... which seems to be that a hard-mode guild must have also cleared normal or else is not as attractive an option as one that has.

As for the difficulty, as I've said before, I think giving a heroic mode-only boss or two seems like it is a completely reasonable request. That said, wanting to see things that others don't: how would Blizz actually design for this? I'm sure there are players in the top 10 clearing guilds in the world that would like to see things that the rest of the 90 in the top 100 don't and so on. I guess they could remove bosses after some period of time, which could be a cool mechanic and incentive (it'd probably have to be behind some kind of gatekeeper boss that would remain though, otherwise it'll just be viewed as a big fat nerf to the raid when it gets taken out), but they'd probably have to be relatively simple (and thus probably not very interesting) or up for a fairly long time to justify the development time.

And not to put too fine a point on it: but wouldn't you still be clearing normal or doing LFR to get gear to make Heroic easier? (LFR, perhaps not if they fix some of the gear-value weirdness in subsequent tiers)
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Re: MoP Wish List........"I'd like......."

Postby Darielle » Sun Mar 18, 2012 5:28 am

But I think Theck is pointing out that if there was only 1 difficulty level, given the current views of Blizzard, It'd likely be between LFR and Normal more than between Normal and Heroic. You'd probably still be doing content below your challenge level but have no option to do anything at your challenge level. With regards to the meta-game of progression and its impact on guilds, I really am not sure how much Blizz can do about that, short of making heroic modes accessible to whoever wants to try them on day 1 and allowing it to be clear that normal mode progression and heroic modes progression are completely separate (which I actually thought they were - sounds like this is not the case?). But I can't imagine the player base mindset will easily change from the current mindset... which seems to be that a hard-mode guild must have also cleared normal or else is not as attractive an option as one that has.

As for the difficulty, as I've said before, I think giving a heroic mode-only boss or two seems like it is a completely reasonable request. That said, wanting to see things that others don't: how would Blizz actually design for this? I'm sure there are players in the top 10 clearing guilds in the world that would like to see things that the rest of the 90 in the top 100 don't and so on. I guess they could remove bosses after some period of time, which could be a cool mechanic and incentive (it'd probably have to be behind some kind of gatekeeper boss that would remain though, otherwise it'll just be viewed as a big fat nerf to the raid when it gets taken out), but they'd probably have to be relatively simple (and thus probably not very interesting) or up for a fairly long time to justify the development time.

And not to put too fine a point on it: but wouldn't you still be clearing normal or doing LFR to get gear to make Heroic easier? (LFR, perhaps not if they fix some of the gear-value weirdness in subsequent tiers)


I think all he/she is trying to say is that he doesn't want to be forced to do Normal and LFR when all it involves is straight farm from week 1, and practically has all the fight mechanics contained within. Having Heroic active out the gate means that your first preview of Dragon Soul is Morchok splitting into two, instead of "Oneshot all the bosses".
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Re: MoP Wish List........"I'd like......."

Postby Vrimmel » Sun Mar 18, 2012 6:50 am

I don't play wow now. I'm not sure wether I will play MoP or not. Things I would like to see:

- Being less about everyone being at the top lvl. Leveling a character feels like a chore rather than an accomplishment. The quest lines are better now than when I started playing, but experience is gained so rapidly that you outlevel a zone before you get a chance to the lore.
- Get back the need of cooperation for dungeons, even at low levels. This is one of the things I enjoyed the most when I used to play. Attack spam without consequences makes the game feel pointless to me. At the top levels dungeons will inevitably become easy, but newly released dungeons should be hard.
- Get the mystique and magical feeling of the game back.
- Promote an active server community outside guilds.
- Balance faction ratios on servers.
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Re: MoP Wish List........"I'd like......."

Postby Klaudandus » Sun Mar 18, 2012 8:01 am

If blizzard wants to have people out in the world, then they need to stop centralizing all the goodies into the two capital cities (stormwind/orgrimmar) -- it would also help if we get more cities that get access to the trade channel.
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Re: MoP Wish List........"I'd like......."

Postby Lieris » Sun Mar 18, 2012 8:09 am

I am slightly drunk so sorry if this isn't very coherent (only takes me one drink... don't judge me) but I just don't see what's so outrageous about having new or different fights on heroic. If they're going to persist with this buff that increases every month more and more people are going to see these heroic fights, there are a lot of guilds now on 5/8 or 6/8 and soon they will see what a ridiculous disappointment the last two fights of the expansion are. Why not for example have Deathwing kill all the other aspects resulting in two entirely different fights? Maybe have N'Zoth make an appearance on the final fight against Deathwing on heroic? Maybe fight Deathwing and some new black dragon bosses in Deepholm instead. It doesn't take much imagination to see where they could change things up.

If they're only going to have 8 bosses a tier I want normal and heroic to feel completely different instead of "same the but with a debuff/adds". Given how often they recycle models for raid bosses this isn't too big of an ask.
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Re: MoP Wish List........"I'd like......."

Postby Lieris » Sun Mar 18, 2012 8:11 am

Vrimmel wrote:- Promote an active server community outside guilds.


Never ever going to happen now that you can queue for cross-realm PVP, LFR and LFD from the Stormwind bank with no incentives to do otherwise.
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Re: MoP Wish List........"I'd like......."

Postby benebarba » Sun Mar 18, 2012 8:22 am

Lieris wrote:I am slightly drunk so sorry if this isn't very coherent (only takes me one drink... don't judge me) but I just don't see what's so outrageous about having new or different fights on heroic. If they're going to persist with this buff that increases every month more and more people are going to see these heroic fights, there are a lot of guilds now on 5/8 or 6/8 and soon they will see what a ridiculous disappointment the last two fights of the expansion are. Why not for example have Deathwing kill all the other aspects resulting in two entirely different fights? Maybe have N'Zoth make an appearance on the final fight against Deathwing on heroic? Maybe fight Deathwing and some new black dragon bosses in Deepholm instead. It doesn't take much imagination to see where they could change things up.

If they're only going to have 8 bosses a tier I want normal and heroic to feel completely different instead of "same the but with a debuff/adds". Given how often they recycle models for raid bosses this isn't too big of an ask.


I may be off, but I don't think anyone in this thread had a big issue with the idea of new mechanics or bosses in heroics... though who knows what Blizz thinks of the idea.

For the death of the aspects: that would be one of those major story-point things that probably shouldn't happen differently between difficulties, or at least the explanation should be consistent (via cutscene, whatever). That or be prepared for some serious story WTF-ery that makes the LK fight seem completely logical.
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Re: MoP Wish List........"I'd like......."

Postby Klaudandus » Sun Mar 18, 2012 8:22 am

Lieris wrote:I am slightly drunk so sorry if this isn't very coherent (only takes me one drink... don't judge me) but I just don't see what's so outrageous about having new or different fights on heroic. If they're going to persist with this buff that increases every month more and more people are going to see these heroic fights, there are a lot of guilds now on 5/8 or 6/8 and soon they will see what a ridiculous disappointment the last two fights of the expansion are. Why not for example have Deathwing kill all the other aspects resulting in two entirely different fights? Maybe have N'Zoth make an appearance on the final fight against Deathwing on heroic? Maybe fight Deathwing and some new black dragon bosses in Deepholm instead. It doesn't take much imagination to see where they could change things up.

If they're only going to have 8 bosses a tier I want normal and heroic to feel completely different instead of "same the but with a debuff/adds". Given how often they recycle models for raid bosses this isn't too big of an ask.


I kind of agree with lieris here -- I have no qualms with hard core guilds getting access to an entirely different fight based on the difficulty -- kinda like T11 had sinestra.

It's something my guild wont get access too, so I really have no problem with that.
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Re: MoP Wish List........"I'd like......."

Postby benebarba » Sun Mar 18, 2012 8:26 am

Lieris wrote:
Vrimmel wrote:- Promote an active server community outside guilds.


Never ever going to happen now that you can queue for cross-realm PVP, LFR and LFD from the Stormwind bank with no incentives to do otherwise.


Yep - and as predicted, SW and Org have become the new Shatt and Dal. Even with more things spread evenly amongst cities, folks seem to still congregate in the same places. Heck, at least with Dal you actually had to fly to your zone, rather than sitting in one place, taking a portal do do your dailies, then popping back into the city.

I really doubt that MOP will end up significantly different at the end of the day. That or the rage will be huge.
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Re: MoP Wish List........"I'd like......."

Postby mavfin » Sun Mar 18, 2012 8:49 am

benebarba wrote:I really doubt that MOP will end up significantly different at the end of the day. That or the rage will be huge.


On the other hand, they did pull the Dalaran and Shatt portals, and only put back the SW/Org ones. So, they are capable of changing things.

I also hope they stick to the no-fly in Pandaria till 90. I really didn't care for the way 80-85 unfolded with people just landing on quest bosses, then taking off as soon as they killed enough to be out of combat. Only Vash'jir didn't really work that way, because of being underwater.
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Re: MoP Wish List........"I'd like......."

Postby Lieris » Sun Mar 18, 2012 8:54 am

benebarba wrote:
Lieris wrote:I am slightly drunk so sorry if this isn't very coherent (only takes me one drink... don't judge me) but I just don't see what's so outrageous about having new or different fights on heroic. If they're going to persist with this buff that increases every month more and more people are going to see these heroic fights, there are a lot of guilds now on 5/8 or 6/8 and soon they will see what a ridiculous disappointment the last two fights of the expansion are. Why not for example have Deathwing kill all the other aspects resulting in two entirely different fights? Maybe have N'Zoth make an appearance on the final fight against Deathwing on heroic? Maybe fight Deathwing and some new black dragon bosses in Deepholm instead. It doesn't take much imagination to see where they could change things up.

If they're only going to have 8 bosses a tier I want normal and heroic to feel completely different instead of "same the but with a debuff/adds". Given how often they recycle models for raid bosses this isn't too big of an ask.


I may be off, but I don't think anyone in this thread had a big issue with the idea of new mechanics or bosses in heroics... though who knows what Blizz thinks of the idea.

For the death of the aspects: that would be one of those major story-point things that probably shouldn't happen differently between difficulties, or at least the explanation should be consistent (via cutscene, whatever). That or be prepared for some serious story WTF-ery that makes the LK fight seem completely logical.


Didn't you get the memo, if heroic mode raiders want something for themselves then they are elitist and should just play another game. >_<

I think it would be kind of cool to have multiple endings with the heroic one being the canon ending but I can see how that might pose problems. I just think the ending they settled on was really corny and Deathwing seemed really impotent in DS what with him trying to flee for half of it. It would have been cool if on heroic he was made to be much more dangerous.
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