MoP Wish List........"I'd like......."

Anything, including off-topic posts

Moderators: Fridmarr, Worldie, Aergis, Sabindeus, PsiVen

Re: MoP Wish List........"I'd like......."

Postby Shoju » Fri Mar 16, 2012 7:28 am

Nikachelle wrote:lol well on that note, I'd like legendaries removed from previous tiers as new expansions are released. :D It'd make the ones who did get them at level much more special and far less common place than seeing Joe Blo mage with a Thunderfury like you see today.

Edit: Also... remove legendaries from the last tier in the expansion. It just seems so redundant to get them, then replace them with greens since there's no new tier to use them in to your advantage.


I don't think that's a very reasonable solution. Outside of thunderfury and Sulfuras, there are no legendaries that you can "Solo", and those are still rather expensive. On my warlock, I haven't purchased anything that I couldn't farm, meaning my investment so far has been completely time related. Do you know how much thorium you have to mine for the 83 arcane crystals it took me to get my 100 arcanite? I do. 2656 Thorium Ore. I couldn't afford to buy the arcanite, or the premade bars. I just don't have that kind of gold on that server.

Sulfuras is similarly expensive to craft.
The Glaives can't be soloed, and are an RNG drop. As is the bow.
The WotLK legendaries are both 25m only, and can't be soloed.
Meaning it still takes group effort, or gold, and luck. I have no problem with those being available. I think its great that its something that people can work on, and obtain, and enjoy.

The draw, power, prestige, of the legendary should be in the power it wields when it's obtained in current content. Past that, it's really just super cool looking pixels that you wear in town.

And as long as they don't let you mog items to look like legendaries, I have no problem with them being cosmetic in town fluff for people after their time in the sun is gone.
User avatar
Shoju
 
Posts: 6396
Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 7:15 am

Re: MoP Wish List........"I'd like......."

Postby Nikachelle » Fri Mar 16, 2012 7:34 am

On the thorium note... I do know how long it takes. Because I've done both Thunderfury and Sulfuras AND ground up 60 some odd crystals for Invis' current Transmog set. Sure it's lengthy, but it's not exacting challenging.

I'm not saying what I want is a reasonable request, just an idea. I like when certain things remain special. Like seeing a Scarab Lord now and going "holy shit, there's like ONE of you left still playing on the server". You don't get that feeling anymore with since everything has become so common place.
User avatar
Nikachelle
Maintankadonor
 
Posts: 11005
Joined: Mon Mar 23, 2009 10:39 am
Location: Toronto, Canada

Re: MoP Wish List........"I'd like......."

Postby Shoju » Fri Mar 16, 2012 7:42 am

Nikachelle wrote:On the thorium note... I do know how long it takes. Because I've done both Thunderfury and Sulfuras AND ground up 60 some odd crystals for Invis' current Transmog set. Sure it's lengthy, but it's not exacting challenging.

I'm not saying what I want is a reasonable request, just an idea. I like when certain things remain special. Like seeing a Scarab Lord now and going "holy shit, there's like ONE of you left still playing on the server". You don't get that feeling anymore with since everything has become so common place.


But to be fair, the new way legendaries are created isn't "really" challenging. It's just lengthy. There was little "challenge" in the group efforts of Dragonwrath or the Daggers, just long grinds for getting mats, Dragonwrath, taking infinitely longer than the daggers.
User avatar
Shoju
 
Posts: 6396
Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 7:15 am

Re: MoP Wish List........"I'd like......."

Postby degre » Fri Mar 16, 2012 9:01 am

Shoju wrote:
Nikachelle wrote:On the thorium note... I do know how long it takes. Because I've done both Thunderfury and Sulfuras AND ground up 60 some odd crystals for Invis' current Transmog set. Sure it's lengthy, but it's not exacting challenging.

I'm not saying what I want is a reasonable request, just an idea. I like when certain things remain special. Like seeing a Scarab Lord now and going "holy shit, there's like ONE of you left still playing on the server". You don't get that feeling anymore with since everything has become so common place.


But to be fair, the new way legendaries are created isn't "really" challenging. It's just lengthy. There was little "challenge" in the group efforts of Dragonwrath or the Daggers, just long grinds for getting mats, Dragonwrath, taking infinitely longer than the daggers.

I beg to differ.

True that you can cheese through the boss at the end by finding other rogues on your step and grouping up, but I've done the whole quest solo on my rogue, which I didn't really know how to play, and it took me a lot of time but I've done it solo and surely thought me how to better play my class.

True also that after that is just a farm, but I don't see where the problem is, in a game where all is a farm...
On EU-Kadghar: Degre | Beldegre | Degrotto | Koshien | Sousuke
User avatar
degre
 
Posts: 1182
Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2007 7:11 pm
Location: Oxford, UK

Re: MoP Wish List........"I'd like......."

Postby Shoju » Fri Mar 16, 2012 9:23 am

degre wrote:
Shoju wrote:
Nikachelle wrote:On the thorium note... I do know how long it takes. Because I've done both Thunderfury and Sulfuras AND ground up 60 some odd crystals for Invis' current Transmog set. Sure it's lengthy, but it's not exacting challenging.

I'm not saying what I want is a reasonable request, just an idea. I like when certain things remain special. Like seeing a Scarab Lord now and going "holy shit, there's like ONE of you left still playing on the server". You don't get that feeling anymore with since everything has become so common place.


But to be fair, the new way legendaries are created isn't "really" challenging. It's just lengthy. There was little "challenge" in the group efforts of Dragonwrath or the Daggers, just long grinds for getting mats, Dragonwrath, taking infinitely longer than the daggers.

I beg to differ.

True that you can cheese through the boss at the end by finding other rogues on your step and grouping up, but I've done the whole quest solo on my rogue, which I didn't really know how to play, and it took me a lot of time but I've done it solo and surely thought me how to better play my class.

True also that after that is just a farm, but I don't see where the problem is, in a game where all is a farm...


You missed part of my post that is important.

Shoju wrote:But to be fair, the new way legendaries are created isn't "really" challenging. It's just lengthy. There was little "challenge" in the group efforts of Dragonwrath or the Daggers, just long grinds for getting mats, Dragonwrath, taking infinitely longer than the daggers.



The difference between.... Thunderfury and the Daggers and Dragonwrath is pretty easy to spot. They took the "difficult part" of obtaining Thunderfury (the group raid to kill thunderaan) and turned that into solo experiences for the people on the legendary, that the rest of the raid group has no idea what they are doing.

We are just there to help them collect the pieces and parts, and kill the end boss. The new legendaries aren't really any different than the old legendaries like Sulfuras and Thunderfury.

The prime differences are

The guild helps you collect all the mats, cutting out the grind for arcanite / world mats.
The Start of the Legendary line is no longer an RNG drop like Thunderfury, or Sulfuras. It is different from the TBC model in that the legendaries themselves don't just Drop.
The "hard part", the cool stuff, The lore, is handled on a more solo level. I didn't get to see what transpired at the Nexus. I didn't get to see the interaction with the rogue and Wrathion. I'm just there to let you pickpocket the guy, collect the junk, kill a boss for Dragonwrath, and then help you kill the end boss.
For Thunderfury, which had its own boss, I would have been there to help you finish off that special and interesting challenge.

You mention that you did the chain on a rogue you don't really know how to play. Is it fair to say that its an alt?
User avatar
Shoju
 
Posts: 6396
Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 7:15 am

Re: MoP Wish List........"I'd like......."

Postby Jabari » Fri Mar 16, 2012 9:56 am

General stuff from a non-elite player:

- Remove Legendaries from the game entirely. Add more stuff with cool (but not unbalancing) procs in their place.

- Make 1-80 FAR more difficult. Have end-of-zone quests that actually require skills other than "press 1 to attack", and give extremely good rewards that'll last 15 levels.

- Allow "experienced" players (to be defined) an option to entirely skip 1-80. They already know how to play.

- I may be in the minority on this one, but keep both the 10 and 25-man raids. I know that some people like the 25-man format, but to me that's TOO DAMN MANY PEOPLE (and very, very impersonal). I DO think 25-man needs to drop more (but not better) loot to encourage that format a bit more as it seems to be dying. I do NOT think a "one size fits all" approach is good though - going from 10 to 15 would kill the guild I'm in, and a lot of others.

- Have raid bosses that require skills other than "Max DPS", "Stay out of Fire (unless it's good, then get into the fire)", "stack now", "spread out now", and "press the magic button now". (Spine of Deathwing is not the way to do that, BTW...)

- Reforging as an idea is A+. The interface gets a D. Let us experiment and see results before spending the money, and don't require a "/console reloadui" EVERY time I'd like to reforge something.

- Make all gem colors desirable. Even something simple like Red=STR, Blue=INT, Yellow=AGL would work far better than what we have now, which is basically "everything but Red = vendor trash".

- Make sure that when multiple specs want the same type of equipment, that it's actually possible to get something that's appropriate for each spec. I'm just about tired of seeing Haste on every single AGL Mail item in the game, both drops and JP/VP vendor.

- Overhaul both the talent tree and glyph system. The current one is a failure, and the proposed one isn't any better. Having people automatically pick up the "cookie-cutter" skills as they go is a step in the right direction though.

(As an aside here, my preferred model would be to have "talents" act more like "sub-specs" and stay internal to the chosen tree, and keep glyphs as the class-wide choices, but make them REAL choices and have far fewer glyph slots, say 3 total with 12 glyphs per class.)
Most people want the wealth produced by a society with limited government distributed to them more generously by bigger government.
Jabari
 
Posts: 667
Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2008 8:46 am

Re: MoP Wish List........"I'd like......."

Postby Kelaan » Fri Mar 16, 2012 9:57 am

Nikachelle wrote:
Shoju wrote:I like the speed and quality of the Legendary Daggers. I don't agree with Lieris about her comments at all. I think any guild capable of killing the end boss of a Raid consistently should have the opportunity for a Legendary.

I would agree with this if end bosses on normal were never nerfed. Killing something with a 30% buff/debuff/whatever does not make you deserving of something with a "legendary" tag attached to it.


Honestly, I'd like more things like the Rogue daggers. The initial part, the seed of it that leads to Very Good weapons (ideally which scale with tier) is something accessible by literally everyone -- well, everyone capable of buying a spot in a PUG. From there, you have to demonstrate skill in your class (tuned FOR your class specifically), and are rewarded with Pretty Darn Good Weapons. From there, if you raid, you can upgrade them further -- frankly I'd be fine without doing so. I'd rather see more of the first part.

They could (but won't) make every class have a similar chain, have it start in the first tier, and allow further developments to let you upgrade it in later tiers -- but not merely via raiding. Basically, you'd have the option of having tier-appropriate near-BIS weapons via a tier-spanning set of quests. I don't care if there are legendaries -- heck, don't make the legendary phase of it happen until the last tier, and only for raiders, I won't mind much -- it's the nonrandom, skill-based initial phase of acquisition that I find really compelling.
User avatar
Kelaan
 
Posts: 4037
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2008 12:01 pm

Re: MoP Wish List........"I'd like......."

Postby halabar » Fri Mar 16, 2012 11:16 am

poptart wrote:....echo love for Engineering and Archology. While I am leveling archology on my Warrior (so that he has "some" gathering profession to spend time on), that fact that all of the epic items that can be found are 359 leaves me a bit cold since there are many crafted/BoE options that surplant them on any alt I am bringing up. Same with Engineering helms only being good for a single tier while BS, Tailor, LW can all craft gear for each and every tier typically.


But even then, the BS, LW, and Tailoring items are BOE, so you don't have to have those professions anyway.

This will be one of the things that may make me quit the game after first tier of Panda. If all my engineering and arch efforts are basically meaningless after the first tier, why bother at all?

On the legendaries, they need to focus on the player, not the guild farming. Take the rogue quests and make them harder. I'm ok with only the most skilled players getting them. Better that than the guild favorite of X class getting the legendary first, and then endless calls for "let's go do FL again, XXX's alt priest needs embers..." uggh...

EVERY player should have access to get the legendaries, IF they are good enough.

Fishing is fine. and profitable. (just remove those 1/10,000 requirements for the meta achieve)

Raids.. go with 15. And more bosses, smaller loot tables, less linearity.

Yes to generic tokens..
Amirya wrote:... because everyone needs a Catagonskin rug.

twinkfist wrote:i feel bad for the Mogu...having to deal with alcoholic bears.
User avatar
halabar
 
Posts: 9379
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2007 8:21 am
Location: <in the guild that shall not be named>

Re: MoP Wish List........"I'd like......."

Postby halabar » Fri Mar 16, 2012 11:20 am

Nikachelle wrote:lol well on that note, I'd like legendaries removed from previous tiers as new expansions are released. :D It'd make the ones who did get them at level much more special and far less common place than seeing Joe Blo mage with a Thunderfury like you see today.

Edit: Also... remove legendaries from the last tier in the expansion. It just seems so redundant to get them, then replace them with greens since there's no new tier to use them in to your advantage.


Then what do you do with your guild's third mage who hasn't farmed all 10,000 of the items needed? (Insert guild drama!) The farming part needs to go away.

In the future just make them non-farming, and tie them to HARD class quests.
Amirya wrote:... because everyone needs a Catagonskin rug.

twinkfist wrote:i feel bad for the Mogu...having to deal with alcoholic bears.
User avatar
halabar
 
Posts: 9379
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2007 8:21 am
Location: <in the guild that shall not be named>

Re: MoP Wish List........"I'd like......."

Postby Nikachelle » Fri Mar 16, 2012 11:28 am

halabar wrote:
Then what do you do with your guild's third mage who hasn't farmed all 10,000 of the items needed? (Insert guild drama!) The farming part needs to go away.

Huh? What do they need the legendary for the next expansion for anyway? If this is so that third mage can feel "special" for having a legendary that is utterly redundant in the next expansion then I'm not interested in that type of discussion. If a guild is going to get so wound up about getting more and more legendaries for greedy guild members then whatever... that's their drama.

I'm a bit tired of people complaining about farming/collecting/whatever being a problem in this game. This game has ALWAYS been like that. You've always had to grind quest or mobs to level. Or collect loads of items to get a better weapon/piece of gear. A lot of you people are asking to "remove farming cuz it sucks!"... I can't even begin to understand why you started playing this game in the first place. Nobody started this game at level cap and thought "WOW! This raiding is amazing!" We all started at level 1 and the grind to level cap, to quest completion, to gear acquisition was ALL a grind. I don't even know what the hell this game would be like without grinding.
User avatar
Nikachelle
Maintankadonor
 
Posts: 11005
Joined: Mon Mar 23, 2009 10:39 am
Location: Toronto, Canada

Re: MoP Wish List........"I'd like......."

Postby Flex » Fri Mar 16, 2012 11:30 am

Archaeology isn't about the level cap epic gear, so why so much focus on that aspect of it?
We live in a society where people born on third base constantly try to steal second, yet we expect people born with two strikes against them to hit a homerun on the first pitch.
User avatar
Flex
 
Posts: 7508
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2007 7:29 am

Re: MoP Wish List........"I'd like......."

Postby Shoju » Fri Mar 16, 2012 11:44 am

Flex wrote:Archaeology isn't about the level cap epic gear, so why so much focus on that aspect of it?


I wont lie, I wish they would just remove it. I tried really hard to care about it, but man... it just never felt interesting. the Randomness of it was just never fun.


About the legendary discussion:
It's about doing it, and completing it. Personally, I think the "loot X from bosses" part is just drama inducing anyway. I understand why it is there, as a limiter to how many there are, because if it was just done on an individual counter, then you would see whole guilds have legendary equipped dps / healers, and then it isn't "legendary"

my 10m guild is going to complete 2 sets of daggers within 2 weeks of each other due to the small size of DS, and essentially running 2 "groups".

This, after not completing our first dragonwrath until after DS was out.

So, the daggers seem easier to me, while dragonwrath was harder. I think somewhere in the middle of the 2 difficulties (at least from a 10m perspective would be the way to go.

Maybe put something in the guild interface that allows you to choose one person at a time to be "elgible" for work on the legendary is the answer. I don't know. But I don't think that what we've had so far is a good process of doing it.
User avatar
Shoju
 
Posts: 6396
Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 7:15 am

Re: MoP Wish List........"I'd like......."

Postby Flex » Fri Mar 16, 2012 11:49 am

I enjoy it because I enjoy the stories behind the items. If you look at is a method to get a Zin'Rokh the first week of release you'd be disappointed.

If the Loremasters reputation ties into Archaeology I'll be very happy.
We live in a society where people born on third base constantly try to steal second, yet we expect people born with two strikes against them to hit a homerun on the first pitch.
User avatar
Flex
 
Posts: 7508
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2007 7:29 am

Re: MoP Wish List........"I'd like......."

Postby Shoju » Fri Mar 16, 2012 12:26 pm

I will admit, I haven't tried it much since they changed some things. I just hated the slow pace of things. Flying all over, not getting skill ups, working on garbage, it was like a lore based scavenger hunt that never seemed interesting.
User avatar
Shoju
 
Posts: 6396
Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 7:15 am

Re: MoP Wish List........"I'd like......."

Postby halabar » Fri Mar 16, 2012 12:33 pm

Nikachelle wrote:
halabar wrote:
Then what do you do with your guild's third mage who hasn't farmed all 10,000 of the items needed? (Insert guild drama!) The farming part needs to go away.

Huh? What do they need the legendary for the next expansion for anyway? If this is so that third mage can feel "special" for having a legendary that is utterly redundant in the next expansion then I'm not interested in that type of discussion. If a guild is going to get so wound up about getting more and more legendaries for greedy guild members then whatever... that's their drama.

I'm a bit tired of people complaining about farming/collecting/whatever being a problem in this game. This game has ALWAYS been like that. You've always had to grind quest or mobs to level. Or collect loads of items to get a better weapon/piece of gear. A lot of you people are asking to "remove farming cuz it sucks!"... I can't even begin to understand why you started playing this game in the first place. Nobody started this game at level cap and thought "WOW! This raiding is amazing!" We all started at level 1 and the grind to level cap, to quest completion, to gear acquisition was ALL a grind. I don't even know what the hell this game would be like without grinding.


Rage much?.. way to miss my point.

It's the farming by the guild that allows every third mage to want to be a special flower. I don't want to have to help every third mage to farm their things. What you seem to be saying is that only the special flower that you annoint as a RL should get a legendary should get one. That's not quite fair either, is it? But the current system allows any caster or rogue to farm the items.

Make the legendaries SOLO farming, with a few specific one-time raid drops if you want the raid tie-in. And add HARD solo quests, and not ones that can be cheesed by a group like the rogue quest.

So the GOOD players can get it, but a guild isn't held hostage to farming to gear all toons that can get it.
Amirya wrote:... because everyone needs a Catagonskin rug.

twinkfist wrote:i feel bad for the Mogu...having to deal with alcoholic bears.
User avatar
halabar
 
Posts: 9379
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2007 8:21 am
Location: <in the guild that shall not be named>

PreviousNext

Return to General

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 1 guest

Who is online

In total there are 2 users online :: 1 registered, 0 hidden and 1 guest (based on users active over the past 5 minutes)
Most users ever online was 380 on Tue Oct 14, 2008 6:28 pm

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 1 guest