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Dev Watercooler – Mists of Pandaria Stat Changes

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Dev Watercooler – Mists of Pandaria Stat Changes

Postby Klaudandus » Thu Mar 01, 2012 8:25 pm

Dev Watercooler – Mists of Pandaria Stat Changes

Our recent talent calculator changes led to some players asking questions about how character and item stats were changing, because some spell and talent tooltips suggest that changes are coming. We compiled this list to attempt to explain more of what’s coming in Mists of Pandaria. First of all, please note that we actually aren’t making many stat changes compared to the ones we made in Cataclysm (“armor penetration -- gone!”). Second, the stuff below can get a little technical. If you’re not into the subtle nuance of gear itemization, then don’t worry about it -- you don’t need to be to enjoy the expansion -- but we know there are plenty of you who enjoy some nuts and bolts talk, so here we go.

Spell Resistance

* Spell resistance is gone. There are no buffs that improve it and there shouldn’t be much, if any, spell resist gear left. We always thought the system was hard to understand and we weren’t getting much gameplay out of it. Now taking a step back, we can imagine how to develop a game where you’d want various forms of resist gear for certain situations and opponents. Resist gear could potentially be interesting, but it isn’t currently in World of Warcraft -- the game has just been moving away from that sort of thing for years.
* In the absence of spell resistance, there is no need for spell penetration on gear, so we’ll remove it as well.

Hit and Expertise

* We still think having stats that can be capped is a good game design. Rather than focusing solely on stacking your best stat, you have to decide how valuable it is to hit your target before you go back to stacking your best stat. However, we are making some changes.
* Hit and spell hit will no longer be separate stats. The hit stat negates melee miss and spell miss.
* Expertise will negate dodge and spell miss, then parry.
* Expertise will be listed as a percentage, just like hit, instead of having an intermediary stat.
* We are normalizing hit with expertise, so that 1% of each stat will require the same amount of rating.
* We are normalizing melee and spell hit, so that spell hit is equal to miss plus dodge.
** Against an equal level creature: 6% spell miss, 3% melee miss, 3% dodge, 3% parry (from the front only), 3% block (from the front only).
** Against a +1 level creature: 9% spell miss, 4.5% melee miss, 4.5% dodge, 4.5% parry (from the front only), 4.5% Block (from the front only).
** Against a +2 level creature: 12% spell miss, 6% melee miss, 6% dodge, 6% parry (from the front only), 6% Block (from the front only).
** Against a +3/boss level creature: 15% spell miss, 7.5% melee miss, 7.5% dodge, 7.5% parry (from the front only), 7.5% block (from the front only).
** Ranged attacks will be able to be dodged. Hunters will benefit from expertise and will have it on their gear, which will also allow hunters and Enhancement shaman to share gear more easily.

Block

* The chance to block will be handled by a separate combat roll for each attack that is not avoided. In other words, we first determine if an attack misses, or is dodged or parried. If it is not, then the attack has a chance to be blocked.
* This gives block a consistent value, regardless of avoidance. Currently block becomes more valuable the more you have.
* Block will also have diminishing returns, much like dodge and parry. This doesn’t mean that the value of block will go down as you get more block. It means that it won’t go up by as much when you get more block.
* We don’t expect Protection warriors or paladins to get “block capped” other than during temporary effects, such as mastery procs on trinkets. Block tanks will be balanced around this change. Our intent is to make playing block tanks more fun, not to nerf them.
* Also notice how Shield Block and Shield of the Righteous have changed in Mists.

Criticals

* All spells and abilities will crit for double damage, baseline. There are a few exceptions where crits can get larger, but the default is x 2.0 for everyone.
* This means that Enhancement shaman spells and rogue poisons will crit for double damage. Rogue poisons will also use the melee hit chance.

Resilience

* We are renaming this stat to “Defense (PvP)” or possibly “PvP Defense.” All players will have 30% base Defense, the same way all characters have some base Stamina.
* PvP gear will have Defense on it, as well as a new stat, “Power (PvP).” Power increases the damage you do to other players as well as the healing you do to other players in PvP situations.
* If you have a lot of Power, you’ll do more damage to other players, but they likely have Defense as well. If you fight players in lots of PvE gear, they’ll take more damage. Likewise, a player in PvE gear won’t have enough Power to effectively penetrate your Defense.
* The names PvP Power and PvP Defense may not be final, but we’re leaning towards going with stat names that are obviously PvP-related, rather than “fluffier” names that might not be as easy to grasp. We want it to be clear to players that neither Power nor Defense have any relevance when fighting creatures, such as in dungeons or raids.
* PvP gear will be lower in item level than PvE gear of an equivalent tier, however the Power and Defense stats will make sure that PvP gear is more powerful in PvP (both offensively and defensively) than PvE gear. In our budgeting system, the PvP stats will be free rather than causing other stats, such as Strength or haste, to be smaller as a result of including Power or Defense.
* The goal of this change is to make it easier for a PvP player to participate in PvE, or for a PvE player to get started in PvP. Currently, we feel it is too large a barrier to go from one to the other, and the result has been that we see more and more players choosing to focus exclusively on only PvP or PvE. In earlier expansions, it was more feasible to use PvE gear in Arenas or Battlegrounds until you acquired the more useful PvP gear. The same was true of being able to use your PvP gear in a dungeon or raid until you acquired something better. In Cataclysm, stepping into PvP with no PvP gear would result in a player being so ineffective that it was difficult to even make progress towards acquiring PvP gear.
* For the higher-end of PvP or PvE (say Gladiators or heroic raiders), we believe those players will still gravitate towards the dedicated PvP or PvE gear. It is the players who are working towards those two end games that will benefit more from some cross over.

That’s a lot of information, and it probably sounds more set-in-stone than it really is. We’ll continue to iterate as players poke holes in our ideas, tell us what is working out and what isn’t, and finally get to experience it first hand in beta.

Greg “Ghostcrawler” Street is the lead systems designer for World of Warcraft. He didn’t name Mogu’dar, Blade of a Thousand Slaves, but he wishes he had.


http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/4544194
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Re: Dev Watercooler – Mists of Pandaria Stat Changes

Postby Firas » Thu Mar 01, 2012 8:40 pm

Expertise will negate dodge and spell miss, then parry.

So instead of doing away with some of our abilities being part spell hit, they're just going to change expertise to include it? Because seeing the changes to rogues we're going to be the ONLY people taking advantage of that with like one ability.
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Re: Dev Watercooler – Mists of Pandaria Stat Changes

Postby Darielle » Thu Mar 01, 2012 8:44 pm

Rogues, Enh Shaman and Druids (only for FFF really) will benefit from it too.
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Re: Dev Watercooler – Mists of Pandaria Stat Changes

Postby Firas » Thu Mar 01, 2012 8:47 pm

Darielle wrote:Rogues, Enh Shaman and Druids (only for FFF really) will benefit from it too.


rogues are being taken off spell hit with their poisons, enh would benefit, and possibly druids coming up i forgot they're gonna have a lot of shared spells now for feral dps and tank.
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Re: Dev Watercooler – Mists of Pandaria Stat Changes

Postby Firas » Thu Mar 01, 2012 8:49 pm

Second thought: Druids get a talent for both feral and guardian giving them 100% hit rating.
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Re: Dev Watercooler – Mists of Pandaria Stat Changes

Postby Treck » Thu Mar 01, 2012 8:57 pm

I read that as Expertise beeing a stat for everyone.
Like currently melee classes balance hit and expertise, to be capped, then max out on most usefull stat.
And as they are saying they find that to be "interesting" mechanics, maybe they want casters to use Expertise aswell as hit to have 2 stats to balance?
I might be completely wrong, but thats how i read it atleast.

Not sure if im a fan of the new block system tho.
Basically if you have 70% block, that means that if a hit isnt avoided, that has a 70% chance to be blocked, meaning you need to have 100% block to cap, rather than a CTC of 100 (+lvl advantage)
And with diminishing returns, smth like for every 10% block you have, you need another 10% mastery to reach 1% block, but we shall see, prolly easier to balance that than the current model of blockcapped tanks vs non block tanks.

Spell ressistance, not gonna miss it, if they had another kind of model it could be interesting, but as it is now, im happy they are getting rid of it.

The pvp stat changes will make sure you dont use pvp gear in pve atleast, it wont do much changes the other way around, cuz theres pretty much nothing that can survive using pve gear in pvp allready.
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Re: Dev Watercooler – Mists of Pandaria Stat Changes

Postby Darielle » Thu Mar 01, 2012 9:10 pm

rogues are being taken off spell hit with their poisons, enh would benefit, and possibly druids coming up i forgot they're gonna have a lot of shared spells now for feral dps and tank.


AFAIK Rogues still have a couple of effects that work off spell hit without Poisons, but I don't remember which.

Ferals only benefit for FFF and atm Demo Shout, which is going away. No other spell for Feral or Guardian has any benefit except the actual spells, so things like Cyclone or Roots or whatever will land better.

Second thought: Druids get a talent for both feral and guardian giving them 100% hit rating.


If you're thinking of Heart of the Wild, it gives 100% increased hit rating for 45 seconds on a 6 min cooldown, and is designed to allow a Feral to do a bit of spellcasting in a pinch (think Air Phase)

And as they are saying they find that to be "interesting" mechanics, maybe they want casters to use Expertise aswell as hit to have 2 stats to balance?
I might be completely wrong, but thats how i read it atleast.


It's just there to help melee-caster specs.

Right now Enhance has to cap spell hit and then get 26 Expertise as well, which is annoying. With the change, if they have 7.5% hit and 7.5% expertise, like every melee spec wants, they'll have 7.5% melee hit (capped for melee specials), 15% spell hit (capped for spells) and 7.5% dodge reduction (capped for melee swings).
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Re: Dev Watercooler – Mists of Pandaria Stat Changes

Postby Firas » Thu Mar 01, 2012 9:19 pm

go read some of the new talents, feral and guardian get 100% hit rating.
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Re: Dev Watercooler – Mists of Pandaria Stat Changes

Postby Firas » Thu Mar 01, 2012 9:20 pm

Also I'm fairly certain rogues only have poisons on spell hit cap.
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Re: Dev Watercooler – Mists of Pandaria Stat Changes

Postby Darielle » Thu Mar 01, 2012 9:33 pm

Heart of the Wild - 6 min cooldown
Dramatically improves the Druid's ability to serve combat roles outside of normal specialisation for 45 sec.

Feral: 50% agility as intellect, increases hit rating by 100%. 95% increased armor in Bear.
Guardian: same, without increased armor in BEar.

I think you're interpreting it completely wrongly.
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Re: Dev Watercooler – Mists of Pandaria Stat Changes

Postby Lieris » Thu Mar 01, 2012 9:52 pm

Not impressed with our mastery compared to what DKs and Druids have (among other things). They have money in the bank while we have a second dice roll after avoidance for an ability that doesn't even always work on the damage that matters. I hope they will do more with block otherwise shield tanks will get left behind. For me part of tanking is having reliable damage reduction and reducing the impact of dice rolls enough for them to be afterthought. This just makes us flakey compared to the EH monster that is the Guardian Druid.

Just my first thoughts!
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Re: Dev Watercooler – Mists of Pandaria Stat Changes

Postby Klaudandus » Thu Mar 01, 2012 9:59 pm

Lieris wrote:Not impressed with our mastery compared to what DKs and Druids have (among other things). They have money in the bank while we have a second dice roll after avoidance for an ability that doesn't even always work on the damage that matters. I hope they will do more with block otherwise shield tanks will get left behind. For me part of tanking is having reliable damage reduction and reducing the impact of dice rolls enough for them to be afterthought. This just makes us flakey compared to the EH monster that is the Guardian Druid.

Just my first thoughts!


I don't like the double dice roll either.
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Re: Dev Watercooler – Mists of Pandaria Stat Changes

Postby Petrus » Thu Mar 01, 2012 10:04 pm

Initial reaction to no block capping: Damn. I liked having to balance my stats. It set me apart from other tanks and if I did it successfully, it showed that I knew my class. I feel like it's another dumbing down of the game that is unnecessary.
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Re: Dev Watercooler – Mists of Pandaria Stat Changes

Postby rodos » Thu Mar 01, 2012 11:08 pm

Lieris wrote:Not impressed with our mastery compared to what DKs and Druids have (among other things). They have money in the bank while we have a second dice roll after avoidance for an ability that doesn't even always work on the damage that matters. I hope they will do more with block otherwise shield tanks will get left behind. For me part of tanking is having reliable damage reduction and reducing the impact of dice rolls enough for them to be afterthought. This just makes us flakey compared to the EH monster that is the Guardian Druid.

Just my first thoughts!

Perhaps the could redress some of this balance by increasing the armor value of shields, and reducing the damage reduction of a successful block. That would make the prot masteries pretty uninteresting though.

Really though, the block masteries suffer from having neither strong synergy nor interesting trade-off with other stats. Given that stam and armor and pretty much fixed by ilevel, and assuming a world with unreachable block-cap, a warrior or paladin only has a choice between different flavours of rng survivability stats. A DK can balance active self healing against rng avoidance, and a druid can balance static EH vs rng avoidance. Also, the DK is the only one with a mastery that affects magical damage, which seems odd.
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Re: Dev Watercooler – Mists of Pandaria Stat Changes

Postby Darielle » Thu Mar 01, 2012 11:50 pm

Lieris wrote:Not impressed with our mastery compared to what DKs and Druids have (among other things). They have money in the bank while we have a second dice roll after avoidance for an ability that doesn't even always work on the damage that matters. I hope they will do more with block otherwise shield tanks will get left behind. For me part of tanking is having reliable damage reduction and reducing the impact of dice rolls enough for them to be afterthought. This just makes us flakey compared to the EH monster that is the Guardian Druid.

Just my first thoughts!


They're banking on it working alongside the Shield Block/ShoR thing to help guarantee blocks. Guardian Mastery is flawed anyway.
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