Post Your Amusements!

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Re: Post Your Amusements!

Postby Arnock » Tue Jul 02, 2013 2:51 pm

Sounds less like they want it dismissed because "you can't be racist against white people" but more along the lines of "The racial comments were directed at black people, and the white person shouldn't be able to sue because s/he's not the affected party"

What exactly did Paula allegedly say/do anyway?

Edit: From what I'm reading, it sounds like she's being sued because she admitted to using racial slurs in the past during an interview?
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Re: Post Your Amusements!

Postby bldavis » Tue Jul 02, 2013 3:10 pm

from what i read, i twas while planning her brothers wedding in 2007
not what she said 20+ years ago
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Re: Post Your Amusements!

Postby halabar » Tue Jul 02, 2013 3:29 pm

Arnock wrote:Sounds less like they want it dismissed because "you can't be racist against white people" but more along the lines of "The racial comments were directed at black people, and the white person shouldn't be able to sue because s/he's not the affected party"

What exactly did Paula allegedly say/do anyway?

Edit: From what I'm reading, it sounds like she's being sued because she admitted to using racial slurs in the past during an interview?


She's being sued because of the treatment of an employee at one of the restaurants.

She's being grilled over the coals for admitting to using the racial remarks in the past, which came out in testimony/deposition.
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Re: Post Your Amusements!

Postby halabar » Tue Jul 02, 2013 3:31 pm

bldavis wrote:from what i read, i twas while planning her brothers wedding in 2007
not what she said 20+ years ago


And how many of us would be crucified on the public stage for any comment we made in private with family/friends? Probably most.
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Re: Post Your Amusements!

Postby Klaudandus » Tue Jul 02, 2013 3:50 pm

Arnock wrote:Sounds less like they want it dismissed because "you can't be racist against white people" but more along the lines of "The racial comments were directed at black people, and the white person shouldn't be able to sue because s/he's not the affected party"


That is the argument being pushed by her lawyers.

"Jackson cannot enforce someone else’s rights, and she has no actionable claim for feeling 'uncomfortable' around discriminatory conduct directed at others;" they wrote, before quoting Bermudez v. TRC Holdings, Inc., "'[i]f unease on observing wrongs perpetrated against others were enough to support litigation, all doctrines of standing and justiciability would be out the window.'"
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Re: Post Your Amusements!

Postby halabar » Tue Jul 02, 2013 4:03 pm

Klaudandus wrote:
Arnock wrote:Sounds less like they want it dismissed because "you can't be racist against white people" but more along the lines of "The racial comments were directed at black people, and the white person shouldn't be able to sue because s/he's not the affected party"


That is the argument being pushed by her lawyers.

"Jackson cannot enforce someone else’s rights, and she has no actionable claim for feeling 'uncomfortable' around discriminatory conduct directed at others;" they wrote, before quoting Bermudez v. TRC Holdings, Inc., "'[i]f unease on observing wrongs perpetrated against others were enough to support litigation, all doctrines of standing and justiciability would be out the window.'"


Meanwhile, the political correctness nazis have damaged her FAR more than that lawsuit ever would have done, even if it's thrown out. She's sidelined for good.
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Re: Post Your Amusements!

Postby benebarba » Tue Jul 02, 2013 4:26 pm

halabar wrote:
Meanwhile, the political correctness nazis have damaged her FAR more than that lawsuit ever would have done, even if it's thrown out. She's sidelined for good.


Ah, the joys of the court of public opinion. Far more damaging for most, particularly folks whose livelihood relies on public image, than any actual criminal or civil trial outcome ever could be.
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Re: Post Your Amusements!

Postby halabar » Tue Jul 02, 2013 4:33 pm

benebarba wrote:
halabar wrote:
Meanwhile, the political correctness nazis have damaged her FAR more than that lawsuit ever would have done, even if it's thrown out. She's sidelined for good.


Ah, the joys of the court of public opinion. Far more damaging for most, particularly folks whose livelihood relies on public image, than any actual criminal or civil trial outcome ever could be.



It's not even really public opinion at this point. All it takes is one sponsor to drop someone, and then all the others have to follow suit, since that first one made news, so the "crisis management" by the sponsors becomes the news story. Likely even before one customer actually complained.
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Re: Post Your Amusements!

Postby benebarba » Tue Jul 02, 2013 5:06 pm

halabar wrote:
benebarba wrote:
halabar wrote:
Meanwhile, the political correctness nazis have damaged her FAR more than that lawsuit ever would have done, even if it's thrown out. She's sidelined for good.


Ah, the joys of the court of public opinion. Far more damaging for most, particularly folks whose livelihood relies on public image, than any actual criminal or civil trial outcome ever could be.



It's not even really public opinion at this point. All it takes is one sponsor to drop someone, and then all the others have to follow suit, since that first one made news, so the "crisis management" by the sponsors becomes the news story. Likely even before one customer actually complained.


and you don't think those actions are informed by fear of public opinion?

Paula Deen is probably not the best example (I actually don't care so have no idea, but from what I saw it seemed no different than any other 'outcry' over something someone remotely famous did)
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Re: Post Your Amusements!

Postby halabar » Tue Jul 02, 2013 6:31 pm

benebarba wrote:and you don't think those actions are informed by fear of public opinion?

Paula Deen is probably not the best example (I actually don't care so have no idea, but from what I saw it seemed no different than any other 'outcry' over something someone remotely famous did)


It's gone something like this...

A while ago, PR moves like this were done out of response to public opinion.
More recently, PR moves were made out of fear of public opinion.
Now, they are creating public opinion.

In Dean's case the first sponsor to drop her did so the day after the testimony was revealed. I highly doubt any public outcry had started yet. Then the rest of the sponsors jumped ship as well.

It may be valid to not renew her contracts (she has plenty of other issues), but the rats jumping ship because of some courtroom testimony of past events seems extreme in the speed in which it occurred.
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Re: Post Your Amusements!

Postby benebarba » Tue Jul 02, 2013 7:02 pm

halabar wrote:It may be valid to not renew her contracts (she has plenty of other issues), but the rats jumping ship because of some courtroom testimony of past events seems extreme in the speed in which it occurred.


Again, at least based on my own anecdotes (Julian Assange and Snowden fell into this as well I think - since there was pretty much always a character assassination flavor to the coverage/discussion of those guys), I don't think the speed is so extreme when measured against the speed with which word spreads via social media and online news outlets compared to traditional 'bad press' methods in the more traditional news media.
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Re: Post Your Amusements!

Postby benebarba » Tue Jul 02, 2013 7:03 pm

Amusement: somehow I completely forgot about 2 abilities for my windwalker.

then found out that one of them I may as well forget again.
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Re: Post Your Amusements!

Postby Andurin » Tue Jul 02, 2013 11:22 pm

From CAD comics (www.cad-comic.com/cad/)

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Re: Post Your Amusements!

Postby Kelerei » Wed Jul 03, 2013 5:09 am

halabar wrote:
Nooska wrote:So racism only exists legally if you are not caucasian.. Isn't that racism from the system against caucasians? by definition?


Welcome to America!!!


You guys have it easy. If you only knew how this part of the world works... :roll:
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Re: Post Your Amusements!

Postby cdan » Wed Jul 03, 2013 5:26 am

Can we just, for a moment, remember how hard life is for white people. Especially white males. All those years of subjugation and oppression, all those opportunities denied them.

It must only be what, maybe 1 or 2 thousand years that the white male has been at the top of the pile. Somebody needs to give them a break.
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Re: Post Your Amusements!

Postby Nooska » Wed Jul 03, 2013 8:24 am

Thats just facetious - historical injustice does not excuse current injustice, and definetaly is not an excuse for removing a concept from someone because they historically had it better.

In this day an age, it actually is a problem in quite a few countries to be "average white male", because there is so much affirmitive action, that for a qualified "average white male" you are put at the back of the line for almost any historical "minority" (The quotation marks is because women qualify too most places, even though women are not a minority).

Just to not be abstract - I'm a member of a party that is very focused on equal representation - this means that because I'm in my 30's, I'm white and I'm male, I am in the group of last picked, over "young" "ethnic"* "female" for any 'strategic' lists. It's also the only group that doesn't have any set goals for representation (there are goals to meet for for almost any elected position (whether popular or party)) apart from the 50+ white males - who don't need a goal because they still have represnetation from "years of experience".

Can you give me one good reason why a young/youngish white male should bear the burden of what happened before he was born?
And can you give me one good reason why a female/ethnic* of today should get preferential treatment over the abovementioned white male, for somethinng that happened to others of a similar situation (female/ethnic) in the past?

Now I can understand why some of the older people could feel a need for preferential treatment, to equalize the possible inferior treatment they have recieved previously.

I'm all for treating people equally and equal opportunity, but why should a company be worried about racism/sexism accusations in a degree that they will chose a less qualified non-white/non-male over a more qqualified white male? This is the reality in many european countries today (I won't speak for the US, but I would be surprised if it was different then).


*ethnic here simply means any non-caucasian - thats the way its being used around here when translated.
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Re: Post Your Amusements!

Postby cdan » Wed Jul 03, 2013 8:40 am

White males are the product of centuries of advantage. Its just tough luck that you are now experiencing a fraction of what other ethnic groups have faced for generation after generation.

I suggest that you get over it and instead of complaining about it I would, like the millions of people from ethnic minorities before you, find a way to work within a system that has a (in your case fractional) bias against you.

Edit: I know I sound harsh, but I get a bit fed-up of the whiney nature of white people's complaints given the amount of obstacles thrown in the path of especially black people over the years, compared to the paltry excuses for obstacles white people are currently experiencing in very isolated instances.
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Re: Post Your Amusements!

Postby halabar » Wed Jul 03, 2013 9:08 am

cdan wrote:White males are the product of centuries of advantage. Its just tough luck that you are now experiencing a fraction of what other ethnic groups have faced for generation after generation.

I suggest that you get over it and instead of complaining about it I would, like the millions of people from ethnic minorities before you, find a way to work within a system that has a (in your case fractional) bias against you.

Edit: I know I sound harsh, but I get a bit fed-up of the whiney nature of white people's complaints given the amount of obstacles thrown in the path of especially black people over the years, compared to the paltry excuses for obstacles white people are currently experiencing in very isolated instances.


It's always paltry, regardless of your demographic, until you are the one facing the issue directly.

But it sounds like you justify a female VP that will only promote women, a firefighter that can never get promoted due to quotas, or a kid that can't get a job at the local fast-food place because the minority manager will only hire minorities. Yep, all justified and appropriate for past sins of the fathers.
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Re: Post Your Amusements!

Postby Fetzie » Wed Jul 03, 2013 9:29 am

cdan wrote:White males are the product of centuries of advantage. Its just tough luck that you are now experiencing a fraction of what other ethnic groups have faced for generation after generation.

I suggest that you get over it and instead of complaining about it I would, like the millions of people from ethnic minorities before you, find a way to work within a system that has a (in your case fractional) bias against you.

Edit: I know I sound harsh, but I get a bit fed-up of the whiney nature of white people's complaints given the amount of obstacles thrown in the path of especially black people over the years, compared to the paltry excuses for obstacles white people are currently experiencing in very isolated instances.

I get a bit fed up at people seeming to believe that it is OK to favouritise minorities over the majority just because our ancestors mistreated them. It isn't OUR (the current 20-40s) generation's) fault. WE didn't put those road-blocks up. WE didn't segregate buses, restaurants and schools. Favouritising blacks, hispanics, whomever doesn't make the world a fairer or better place. Everybody should be equal. Yes, non-whites have been disadvantaged in the past. Yes, that is abhorrent and bad. Yes, we should treat them as we treat ourselves. Nobody should benefit or lose out just because of their heritage, but why can't that go for white people too? It is the same with women's rights.

Equality does not mean we should favouritise. It means everybody has an equal chance. It does not mean that anybody should be guilt-tripped into employing a disabled black woman in her late 50s just to avoid a discrimination lawsuit (exaggerated, I know). It means that you are judged on merit. You are judged on capability. You are judged on qualifications. If that means a white male gets a job over a black male, then so be it. If it means the opposite, that the black man gets the job over the white man, then that is totally fine too. That is how it should be. If it were practicable, I would support blind, anonymous job applications. The first time the employer would see the applicant would be after the job contract is signed.

Just don't make all white people out to be responsible for the actions of their ancestors.

I suggest that you get over it


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Re: Post Your Amusements!

Postby Sagara » Wed Jul 03, 2013 9:40 am

The correct answer to one extreme is never the other extreme. In fact it is not even enforcing ghe balance, because the extremes wil simply dig themselves in and find an oblique way to return.

The correct answer is always and muqt always be to build a system where the balance will be accepted as the norm, and everyone on both sides will want to be maintain it, not by force, but by choice.
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Re: Post Your Amusements!

Postby Teranoid » Wed Jul 03, 2013 9:43 am

Boy this thread got stupid in a hurry..
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Re: Post Your Amusements!

Postby Klaudandus » Wed Jul 03, 2013 9:45 am

Teranoid wrote:Boy this thread got stupid in a hurry..

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No shit. Although I'm partially responsible for that.

Why do I always get the ball rolling on the huge thread derails?
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Re: Post Your Amusements!

Postby Flex » Wed Jul 03, 2013 9:50 am

Fetzie wrote:I get a bit fed up at people seeming to believe that it is OK to favouritise minorities over the majority just because our ancestors mistreated them. It isn't OUR (the current 20-40s) generation's) fault. WE didn't put those road-blocks up. WE didn't segregate buses, restaurants and schools. Favouritising blacks, hispanics, whomever doesn't make the world a fairer or better place.


Shit like this http://www.sciencealert.com.au/news/20091806-19309.html and the http://www.nber.org/digest/sep03/w9873.html means institutional discrimination is still a fundamental construct of modern civilized society.
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Re: Post Your Amusements!

Postby Flex » Wed Jul 03, 2013 9:59 am

And now for something completely different

Might be the best movie ever.
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Re: Post Your Amusements!

Postby Klaudandus » Wed Jul 03, 2013 10:12 am

Flex wrote:And now for something completely different

Might be the best movie ever.


I heard about it on Wait Wait Don't Tell Me about a month or two ago. I'm glad to see some actual footage of it!

And indeed, it's the best thing ever!
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