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Re: Post Your Amusements!

PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 12:23 pm
by benebarba
Flex wrote:
benebarba wrote:'we're gonna sell it to other parties too'.


Instagram has no ability, and you grant them no right to, sell your pictures. What it does say is that your pictures may show up in the stream of a sponsored party, i.e. the New York Yankees sponsoring a page and showing many Instagram pictures of Yankee Stadium from many different users.

I think you took my words too literally.

I was merely speaking about the difference between necessary copying/sharing clauses due to the technology and the use of said clauses in allowing their use by other entities who are paying for the privelege.

Sponsored ads are paying for a service which includes the photos - though the photos, nor rights to them, are not being sold themselves. It is questionable if the sponsors care about the photos other than not having to pay a stock photo company in addition to whatever fees they pay for the ads.

Re: Post Your Amusements!

PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 12:31 pm
by Flex
benebarba wrote:
Flex wrote:
benebarba wrote:'we're gonna sell it to other parties too'.


Instagram has no ability, and you grant them no right to, sell your pictures. What it does say is that your pictures may show up in the stream of a sponsored party, i.e. the New York Yankees sponsoring a page and showing many Instagram pictures of Yankee Stadium from many different users.

I think you took my words too literally.

I was merely speaking about the difference between necessary copying/sharing clauses due to the technology and the use of said clauses in allowing their use by other entities who are paying for the privelege.


But the big point is that this isn't a new clause, it is a clearer clause with more limits on what can be done with your content, specifically the removal of the modify clause.

Re: Post Your Amusements!

PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 12:32 pm
by halabar
Flex wrote:
benebarba wrote:'we're gonna sell it to other parties too'.


Instagram has no ability, and you grant them no right to, sell your pictures. What it does say is that your pictures may show up in the stream of a sponsored party, i.e. the New York Yankees sponsoring a page and showing many Instagram pictures of Yankee Stadium from many different users.


Not quite. The first incarnation of the new ToS certainly left a elephant-sized loophole that they could certainly sell your images. They may not have the mechanisms in place right now, but it certainly left that option open.

Remains to be seen what the next incarnation of the ToS says.

The scenario you describe is the likely one. However, there are problems with that. It would be easy for the Yankees to take the photos in that stream and display them on digital signage at the stadium or on other websites. So suddenly any image tagged 'yankees' or yankee stadium' or whatever the keywords are become part of their photo stream, on all their different media. What happens when the people in your photos object?

Or another example, some company sponsors the word "wedding" and suddenly the photos that all the wedding photographers post on Instagram to promote themselves suddenly show up in other company's advertisements in Instagram or other places. I don't think the couples involved with be too thrilled.

What Instagram is likely going to do is to chase anyone who's a commercial photographer in any sense back to Flickr. The "art" community doesn't like the changes either, but Flickr is to plain for them. Everyone else posting their cat and breakfast pictures won't care.

Re: Post Your Amusements!

PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 12:37 pm
by Flex
halabar wrote:Not quite. The first incarnation of the new ToS certainly left a elephant-sized loophole that they could certainly sell your images. They may not have the mechanisms in place right now, but it certainly left that option open.


Show me where that is, because I certainly don't see it.

It would be easy for the Yankees to take the photos in that stream and display them on digital signage at the stadium or on other websites.


Once again, that's not what the ToS allows.

Re: Post Your Amusements!

PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 12:50 pm
by benebarba
Flex wrote:
It would be easy for the Yankees to take the photos in that stream and display them on digital signage at the stadium or on other websites.


Once again, that's not what the ToS allows.


Yeah, I actually thought they were basically going to be akin to the facebook '<insert your friend here> likes <insert thingy here>' use of data: being served to other viewers and users of the site. The fact that it is an image attached to the text ad is the only new thing.

Could they display a webpage shot on the jumbotron? Probably... but I imagine that the companies involved would want them to pony up a bit for that privelege.


Certainly questions of user objections are valid: since it is unclear when/if your images will be used and what they will be used for. It's also entirely possible depending on how images are chosen that there could be ad purchaser complaints: what if I don't want that drunk college kid whizzing off the balcony as the banner image to my liquor ad?

Re: Post Your Amusements!

PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 12:55 pm
by halabar
Flex wrote:Show me where that is, because I certainly don't see it.


Some or all of the Service may be supported by advertising revenue. To help us deliver interesting paid or sponsored content or promotions, you agree that a business or other entity may pay us to display your username, likeness, photos (along with any associated metadata), and/or actions you take, in connection with paid or sponsored content or promotions, without any compensation to you. If you are under the age of eighteen (18), or under any other applicable age of majority, you represent that at least one of your parents or legal guardians has also agreed to this provision (and the use of your name, likeness, username, and/or photos (along with any associated metadata)) on your behalf.
You acknowledge that we may not always identify paid services, sponsored content, or commercial communications as such.


Nothing there puts limits on where the "paid or sponsored content or promotions" occur. The scenario you described is a likely one, BUT, there's nothing here that limits that.

And if I was working for the Yankees, I would do as you describe, but I would also place that "photo stream" on the yankees.mlb.com page, and on digital signage in the stadium.


The other problem is here...

You represent and warrant that: (i) you own the Content posted by you on or through the Service or otherwise have the right to grant the rights and licenses set forth in these Terms of Use; (ii) the posting and use of your Content on or through the Service does not violate, misappropriate or infringe on the rights of any third party, including, without limitation, privacy rights, publicity rights, copyrights, trademark and/or other intellectual property rights; (iii) you agree to pay for all royalties, fees, and any other monies owed by reason of Content you post on or through the Service; and (iv) you have the legal right and capacity to enter into these Terms of Use in your jurisdiction.


You agree that Instagram is not responsible for, and does not endorse, Content posted within the Service. Instagram does not have any obligation to prescreen, monitor, edit, or remove any Content. If your Content violates these Terms of Use, you may bear legal responsibility for that Content.


Let's say I take a photo of you in a "public place", to extend the scenario, we both go to a Yankees game. I post that photo on Instagram without your consent. I can do that, it's covered under "art" and other fair use rights (same as a newspaper). Then the Yankees pay to use that photo. Suddenly that's commercial use, and you can sue me because that image needs your approval before it's used for commercial purposes.

Re: Post Your Amusements!

PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 12:58 pm
by halabar
benebarba wrote:Certainly questions of user objections are valid: since it is unclear when/if your images will be used and what they will be used for. It's also entirely possible depending on how images are chosen that there could be ad purchaser complaints: what if I don't want that drunk college kid whizzing off the balcony as the banner image to my liquor ad?


Or the drunk kid sues you because his photo is being used commercially.

But the easiest way to sink one of these commercial campaigns would be to post totally innappropriate images that would get picked up by the filters for that photo stream. :twisted:

Re: Post Your Amusements!

PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:00 pm
by halabar
benebarba wrote:Could they display a webpage shot on the jumbotron? Probably... but I imagine that the companies involved would want them to pony up a bit for that privelege.


That would be very easy to do.. any sort of digital signage. I can see the Yankees encouraging that until the first surprise ass shows up on the screen.

Re: Post Your Amusements!

PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:28 pm
by bldavis
reading an article someone (i believe it was klaud) posted in the politics thread...
my god that shit makes my head hurt and makes me laugh at the same time

Re: Post Your Amusements!

PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:36 pm
by Klaudandus
bldavis wrote:reading an article someone (i believe it was klaud) posted in the politics thread...
my god that shit makes my head hurt and makes me laugh at the same time


which one?

Re: Post Your Amusements!

PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:41 pm
by bldavis
the foxnews one about violence in video games

they cited a study where "people showed an increased agressive response after each day when playing violent video games for 3 consecutive days"

ok..what rating was that game give, how realistic is that game, hell what game is it, and how old were the "people"?
were they 12 year olds playing CoD? i can totally see that
were they 18 yr olds playing Duke Nukem Forever? that is probably a by product of how shitty that game was
25+ yr olds playing WoW in MoP? dailies

yet people seem to lap this shit up....
makes me /facedesk repeatedly

Re: Post Your Amusements!

PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:48 pm
by Klaudandus
bldavis wrote:the foxnews one about violence in video games

they cited a study where "people showed an increased agressive response after each day when playing violent video games for 3 consecutive days"

ok..what rating was that game give, how realistic is that game, hell what game is it, and how old were the "people"?
were they 12 year olds playing CoD? i can totally see that
were they 18 yr olds playing Duke Nukem Forever? that is probably a by product of how shitty that game was
25+ yr olds playing WoW in MoP? dailies

yet people seem to lap this shit up....
makes me /facedesk repeatedly


Ah yeah... nevermind that the US is really an statistical outlier, not that the truth has ever stopped Fox news before
Image
Source: http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2012/12/d ... -argument/


I bet Fox news "scientists" are completely baffled by Canada, I mean, they also watch violent movies and play video games...

Re: Post Your Amusements!

PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 2:43 pm
by Zobel
Klaudandus wrote:I bet Fox news "scientists" are completely baffled by Canada

Baffled and infuriated. I mean, just look at it up there, acting all Canadian and stuff. Like it knows something they don't.

Re: Post Your Amusements!

PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 2:45 pm
by bldavis
add in how they have a viable economy with nation wide healthcare and other such things and you get a very confused group of idiots

Re: Post Your Amusements!

PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 3:57 pm
by masterpoobaa
I've wondered for the longest time how many mass killings (and what sort of killing) it would take to crack America's gun culture.
I hope this is it.

/me enjoys Australia's decent public heathcare and a gun murder rate even lower than that of canada.

Re: Post Your Amusements!

PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 4:32 pm
by Nooska
bldavis wrote:add in how they have a viable economy with nation wide healthcare and other such things and you get a very confused group of idiots


Then have them look at the scandinavic countries and really become a mess (well functioning socialism with a relatively free market - I mean in denmark only 1 party wants to abolish the socialist welfare state model we have, and they are at below 10% in the polls - the others merely haggle over how big and what areas are the most important - lowest income tax bracket of about 37-39% depending on municipal tax rates)

Re: Post Your Amusements!

PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 8:54 pm
by Teranoid
bldavis wrote:the foxnews one about violence in video games

they cited a study where "people showed an increased agressive response after each day when playing violent video games for 3 consecutive days"

ok..what rating was that game give, how realistic is that game, hell what game is it, and how old were the "people"?
were they 12 year olds playing CoD? i can totally see that
were they 18 yr olds playing Duke Nukem Forever? that is probably a by product of how shitty that game was
25+ yr olds playing WoW in MoP? dailies

yet people seem to lap this shit up....
makes me /facedesk repeatedly


What a coincidence. I tend to show an increased aggressive response after every time a person tries to cite Fox News as a legitimate source of anything.

Re: Post Your Amusements!

PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 9:37 pm
by Fridmarr
And strangely I do the same thing when someone singles out Fox, as if any other form of cable news is any better. Hell about 99% of their reporting is identical (most of which is just repeating a feed anyhow). I stopped watching/listening to the mainstream media a long time ago, because it's all terrible.


Now to the reason I jumped in here:

http://news.yahoo.com/mealworms-other-o ... 00898.html

Re: Post Your Amusements!

PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 10:10 pm
by Klaudandus
Considering I have had this for lunch long ago...
Image

I am not entirely opposed to worms

*hottip: it's fried ant eggs

Re: Post Your Amusements!

PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 10:34 pm
by Fridmarr
I'm not opposed in theory, but I'm also a sissy (I can't even watch "Dr" shows on TV like ER and stuff) so I really doubt I'd be able to eat them if they still looked like worms.

So I'm assuming the eggs are what looks like rice?

Re: Post Your Amusements!

PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 10:40 pm
by Klaudandus
Fridmarr wrote:I'm not opposed in theory, but I'm also a sissy (I can't even watch "Dr" shows on TV like ER and stuff) so I really doubt I'd be able to eat them if they still looked like worms.

So I'm assuming the eggs are what looks like rice?


Yes

Re: Post Your Amusements!

PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 1:28 pm
by Era
Was bored so considered to fire up Skyrim again, never really felt "done" with it. As done as you can be with a game like that, anyway. Stumbled across this in the process:

http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/12/20/an-il ... 0&ns_fee=0

I love things like this, making your own fun. I never do them myself though, so figured I'd fire up the game and try and do something similar. Amusement part ends here. Frustration part: Game bugged up at the executioner at the start. Dragon just flew aimlessly around and the executioner just stood there, looming. The Buggy Scrolls strike again. :(

Re: Post Your Amusements!

PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 9:26 pm
by Klaudandus

Re: Post Your Amusements!

PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 3:56 am
by Era
Klaudandus wrote:http://loudwire.com/christopher-lee-heavy-metal-classic-christmas-songs/


I would pay to see him do a gig with that dressed as Saruman (Gandalf on drums!)

Re: Post Your Amusements!

PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 6:38 am
by Klaudandus
My Little Republic: Plato is Magic


EDIT:

Also, watching Ancient Alien's Doomsday Prophecies and December 21st Episode at the office.