Where did Cataclysm go wrong?

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Re: Where did Cataclysm go wrong?

Postby Lieris » Tue Mar 13, 2012 12:15 pm

halabar wrote:
Lieris wrote: I think they really did a number on us with Dragon Soul and that along with this pet store stuff and server/faction changes still costing money is really trying my loyalty as a customer.


I can't see how the pet store effects your game experience, unless you're hurt that someone besides raiders are getting pretty pixels to ride. So what if people buy mounts and pets?

And do you REALLY want free faction and server transfers?... Not sure you really want that. Imagine 1/2 the server population changing each month, or more. You would also have completely dead servers with nothing but bots on them, and the high-pop servers would be buried. Think your gameplay would still be stable? Also, the overhead on Blizz would be a nightmare with that many transfers.

(And you would also have goblins roaming across servers pillaging as they go. I admit, as a goblin, that would be quite fun).


I don't think a RMT store should exist in a paid subscription based MMO. Pets coming with limited editions and plushies is fine, charging £9-£15 for a digital pet/mount unattainable by any other means isn't. Just my opinion, no need for you to rant against raiders.

And yes I do want free faction changes and transfers. The process is automated, it shouldn't cost money. There are no overheads. If you find a new raiding guild on a different server you are looking at a three figure bill to bring over your alts. We've all got abandoned alts on different servers because of this. There are many ways to make this work e.g. X number of free changes on your account every Y months.
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Re: Where did Cataclysm go wrong?

Postby Nikachelle » Tue Mar 13, 2012 12:18 pm

Darielle wrote:
Skye1013 wrote:Random question that is totally off the main topic, but on topic for the current one... what changed between Naxx40 and Naxx10/25 that made it suddenly doable by everyone and their grandmother? Did they undertune the damage scaling? Not put enough hp on the bosses? Remove certain fight mechanics?


They both made fight mechanics easier and removed some of them.

For example, you had to LoS Razuvious' Disrupting Shout in Naxx-40, and Heigan was both "harder to dance", and he'd port people into the gauntlet before Loatheb as part of the fight.

Basically anything that hit for "Oh I almost died because I stood in it" in Naxx-10/25 was "Damn, I died" in Naxx-40. You needed to control basically everything that was aoe'd instead of "aoe it even harder bro". (Like the adds on Gothik - you had to space them out properly, instead of not caring cause you just aoe them down faster on the Undead side).

Even simple things - Faerlina in Naxx-10/25 you didn't even have to care if she Enraged or not, you could just tank through it. In Naxx-40, you did care, and the only way to remove the Enrage was to have an add Mind Controlled - which meant you needed to actually keep adds alive instead of zerging them down.

I love hearing old time comparisons. :D

Although...

Anub'Rekhan needed to be kited around during insect swarm instead of healers standing at max range and bomb-healing the tank.


We actually DID kite him in the revamped version.
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Re: Where did Cataclysm go wrong?

Postby Flex » Tue Mar 13, 2012 12:19 pm

Lieris wrote:The process is automated, it shouldn't cost money.


One does not imply the other.
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Re: Where did Cataclysm go wrong?

Postby Shoju » Tue Mar 13, 2012 12:21 pm

Flex wrote:
Lieris wrote:The process is automated, it shouldn't cost money.


One does not imply the other.



This made me think of:

One does not simply walk into Terenas....

would have been funnier with a pic, but meh
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Re: Where did Cataclysm go wrong?

Postby Darielle » Tue Mar 13, 2012 12:22 pm

We actually DID kite him in the revamped version.


So did we at first :P. Then we realised we didn't need to. But hey, it was good practice!
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Re: Where did Cataclysm go wrong?

Postby Nikachelle » Tue Mar 13, 2012 12:24 pm

Darielle wrote:
We actually DID kite him in the revamped version.


So did we at first :P. Then we realised we didn't need to. But hey, it was good practice!

Yeah okay, same. Took us about a month before we realized it was unnecessary.
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Re: Where did Cataclysm go wrong?

Postby halabar » Tue Mar 13, 2012 12:32 pm

Lieris wrote:I don't think a RMT store should exist in a paid subscription based MMO. Pets coming with limited editions and plushies is fine, charging £9-£15 for a digital pet/mount unattainable by any other means isn't. Just my opinion, no need for you to rant against raiders.

And yes I do want free faction changes and transfers. The process is automated, it shouldn't cost money. There are no overheads. If you find a new raiding guild on a different server you are looking at a three figure bill to bring over your alts. We've all got abandoned alts on different servers because of this. There are many ways to make this work e.g. X number of free changes on your account every Y months.


The complaints about the mounts and pets are usually from a) kids with no money, b) raiders who feel that stuff should only be drops, or c) achievement-minded folks who have to keep spending.

I can see all those arguments, but at the same time, it doesn't directly effect the game experience, especially for raiders.

Frankly, everyone should be glad that they are selling those, IF it helps fund game development. (If it's not, and just going in the corporate coffers, or worse yet pulling resources from game development, then that's another story).

And again on the transfers, they likely have it in place to keep guys like Worldie in check. Who knows what carnage he could create on raiding guilds if he had a free transfer every month. :D

But seriously, think of the impact on some servers if everyone got 3 free transfers every quarter. Some servers would loose 1/2 or more of their populations overnight. Others would be buried in new people. It would be bad for the game. Meanwhile you would have goblins moving about and pillaging server economies left and right (and believe me, I would be among the first doing that.)
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Re: Where did Cataclysm go wrong?

Postby halabar » Tue Mar 13, 2012 12:34 pm

Flex wrote:
Lieris wrote:The process is automated, it shouldn't cost money.


One does not imply the other.


And it's not entirely automated. There are sysadmins watching that stuff.

Unless you want "oops, an error occurred, sorry, please reroll".
Amirya wrote:... because everyone needs a Catagonskin rug.

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Re: Where did Cataclysm go wrong?

Postby Amirya » Tue Mar 13, 2012 1:30 pm

Nikachelle wrote:
Darielle wrote:
We actually DID kite him in the revamped version.


So did we at first :P. Then we realised we didn't need to. But hey, it was good practice!

Yeah okay, same. Took us about a month before we realized it was unnecessary.

We did too. It was entertaining, our first time in there. Only one person, a healer, had seen Naxx at all in any form.

Took us about 1-2 months before we stopped kiting, because the healers wouldn't stop freaking out (I had to resort to the, "I am going to stand here, and if we wipe, then we will be blaming the healers," routine. It wasn't gear or skill, it was just a mindset of THERE IS ONLY ONE WAY TO DO THIS).
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Re: Where did Cataclysm go wrong?

Postby Klaudandus » Tue Mar 13, 2012 4:45 pm

theckhd wrote:
mavfin wrote:
Nikachelle wrote:First of all, Lieris is a woman.


Fair enough. I guess I never caught that.


If it makes you feel better, I didn't realize it until just now either. *shrug*

Obviously she needs to put more ponies and rainbows in her avatar so we can tell that....
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Never mind.


why you *shakes tiny fist*

i'll be honest, the main reason i use ponies is because invis cant stand them =P

that and i got work-related ocd like the pony in my avatar
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Re: Where did Cataclysm go wrong?

Postby Worldie » Wed Mar 14, 2012 1:04 am

Nikachelle wrote:
Darielle wrote:
We actually DID kite him in the revamped version.


So did we at first :P. Then we realised we didn't need to. But hey, it was good practice!

Yeah okay, same. Took us about a month before we realized it was unnecessary.

I only did kite on the first kill. Cause i was too bad to actually manage it, on the second kill i was like "screw this I'm just standing in the debuff" >_> >_> >_>
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
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Re: Where did Cataclysm go wrong?

Postby firstamendme » Wed Mar 14, 2012 7:00 am

Worldie wrote:I only did kite on the first kill. Cause i was too bad to actually manage it, on the second kill i was like "screw this I'm just standing in the debuff" >_> >_> >_>


I have fond memories of healing that fight as a priest during the 40man version in vanilla. Bringing stacks and stacks of feathers to levitate people that got knocked up into the air was always fun.

If I remember correctly, didn't you used to need/make it easier with a hunter to turn on aspect of the pack and run with the tank during the kite?
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Re: Where did Cataclysm go wrong?

Postby Barathorn » Wed Mar 14, 2012 8:11 am

halabar wrote:Frankly, everyone should be glad that they are selling those, IF it helps fund game development. (If it's not, and just going in the corporate coffers, or worse yet pulling resources from game development, then that's another story).


I would be amazed if the money went towards WOW development. I think the money has been spent or allocated for use elsewhere for at least the last expansion if not longer. It is just a case of wringing as much cash as possible from the freak of MMO world now before people lose interest. Sensible business model as far as I am concerned. Minimum input and maximum income. Not good for the consumers though. Especially those who work hard for ingame items at any level of play.

Otherwise I pretty much agree with Lieris and the items available to purchase are one of the things I know dislike most about the game. If the game was F2P and you had to buy content then ok I can understand that, but to charge extra for things when you already have to pay a monthly subscription? That reeks of wringing the cash cow for as much as possible to me.

The worse thing is that people pay it oblivious to what they are doing because having mount XXXX makes you imba.

:roll:
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Re: Where did Cataclysm go wrong?

Postby halabar » Wed Mar 14, 2012 8:40 am

Barathorn wrote:Otherwise I pretty much agree with Lieris and the items available to purchase are one of the things I know dislike most about the game. If the game was F2P and you had to buy content then ok I can understand that, but to charge extra for things when you already have to pay a monthly subscription? That reeks of wringing the cash cow for as much as possible to me.

The worse thing is that people pay it oblivious to what they are doing because having mount XXXX makes you imba.

:roll:


See, that's what I don't get. In a F2P model, I see that as far worse, because there's alway someone with much deeper real pockets than you that can afford everything. I equate it to gold buying.

Considering the number of pets and mounts that come from the TCG, I don't see how the pet/mount store is any different. I really don't care if someone got daddy's credit card and bought a mount.

Then again, I'll never pay for a mount. Most of my potential or past raiding toons have TLPD, so I don't see a need. It's sort of a right of passage for them. :wink:
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Re: Where did Cataclysm go wrong?

Postby warden » Wed Mar 14, 2012 8:57 am

The thing that doesn't bother me too much about mount/pet selling is that (1) they don't affect actual gameplay, and (2) they're not required to get the mount/pet achievements. Even for the sake of the achievement junkies (I'm not one, but respect their efforts) I'd be more upset if you couldn't get to the max possible mount/pet achieves without going to the store... these days though, all it takes is some farming (Argent Tourney can DIAF) or camping rare spawns to fill out the last few required. What they did with the ME3 multiplayer bothers me a lot more--Its annoying being totally outclassed day one because someone decided to throw $20-$50 worth of Bioware points at their account to unlock a ton of weapons and characters that can only be obtained from completely random item packs. I know many other games are worse about this...but that's why I don't play them.
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