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Where did Cataclysm go wrong?

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Re: Where did Cataclysm go wrong?

Postby lythac » Tue Mar 13, 2012 8:54 am

Skye1013 wrote:Random question that is totally off the main topic, but on topic for the current one... what changed between Naxx40 and Naxx10/25 that made it suddenly doable by everyone and their grandmother? Did they undertune the damage scaling? Not put enough hp on the bosses? Remove certain fight mechanics?


http://www.wowpedia.org/Changes_between ... _Naxxramas

Pretty much everything plus some more.

8 Warrior tanks were needed to tank this fight.
Warriors would often need a spell hit rate trinket so that taunt wouldn’t miss.
If taunt missed, it would drastically increase a chance of wiping, doing so most of the time.


Taunt (spell) had a 17% miss chance and "Hit" and "Spell hit" were two different stats.

Also with gear acquisition, having 8 Warriors geared enough was an issue. The issue was often overcome by the guild top on server progression poaching maintanks off the guilds progressing though BWL/AQ40. I say poaching, but with the amount of cockblocks in Vanilla guilds would get stuck on bosses for months and some players would jump ship when that point was reached.

I swear Druids could tank it as well. Hmm.
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Re: Where did Cataclysm go wrong?

Postby halabar » Tue Mar 13, 2012 9:21 am

Archeth wrote:While I agree that it's not really an issue of "what the game did wrong", there's still the issue that they basically made mount and pet collecting "mini careers" (pets especially, in MoP) yet are releasing some of the cutest/prettiest/etc. additions outside the game, with a price for which you can play the game for 12 months if you wanted them all.


I don't see that as an issue, if it supports the overall game.

Archeth wrote:Another problem is along the line that their RMT pets/mounts are unique (ie. there's no "getting similar things from just your 15$/month) and often of a higher quality than most of what they release for everyone. Pets are iconic figures and boss miniatures with sound effects, those for "cheapskates" are downscaled NPCs, lanterns etc., nice but not nearly THAT nice. Mounts include one sparkly recolor of Invincible which very few people could get the hard way, and two entirely new designs while (raid) achievement mounts are mostly recolors of existing drakes with new faces.


Now, that IS an issue. The new dragon mount model should have been a drop.

Archeth wrote:And I can certainly understand the fees to act as a deterrent. On the other hand, so did cooldowns and they got rid of those anyway. You have to admit, 25€ is pretty excessive for a single character transfer (considering most people have half a dozen or more alts nowadays and WoW has dozens of servers for your friends to scatter) even if you don't do it as often as Worldie.


Well, you have that Euro inflation.. :| But you still don't want it free. That would lead to chaos, unless they put hard restrictions on moves.
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Re: Where did Cataclysm go wrong?

Postby Flex » Tue Mar 13, 2012 9:25 am

As someone who buys a lot of the pet store items I rarely use them. Lil XT is strictly a train wrecker now and I have a macro that cycles through mounts and by far my most favorite one is the Silver Covenant Hippogryph.

As for the collecting aspect, all current achievements can be obtained without purchasing anything.
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Re: Where did Cataclysm go wrong?

Postby mavfin » Tue Mar 13, 2012 9:40 am

halabar wrote:And do you REALLY want free faction and server transfers?... Not sure you really want that. Imagine 1/2 the server population changing each month, or more. You would also have completely dead servers with nothing but bots on them, and the high-pop servers would be buried. Think your gameplay would still be stable? Also, the overhead on Blizz would be a nightmare with that many transfers.


Also, guilds would server-hop to take realm firsts all the time, just because it was free. Happens in Rift, where it's free.
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Re: Where did Cataclysm go wrong?

Postby Shoju » Tue Mar 13, 2012 9:54 am

1 free server or faction move per major patch cycle per account. That would be good for me.

Maybe it would upend things. Maybe ti wouldn't.
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Re: Where did Cataclysm go wrong?

Postby Archeth » Tue Mar 13, 2012 10:02 am

Make them free with a cooldown, pay to transfer through cooldown. But they won't do that because by now server transfers are just part of their "cash shop" I guess.
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Re: Where did Cataclysm go wrong?

Postby Flex » Tue Mar 13, 2012 10:07 am

Archeth wrote:Make them free with a cooldown, pay to transfer through cooldown. But they won't do that because by now server transfers are just part of their "cash shop" I guess.


Or they want a deterrent without over-complicating the system.
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Re: Where did Cataclysm go wrong?

Postby Shoju » Tue Mar 13, 2012 10:34 am

I would have loved a Free Character Transfer in the case of:

Oh Hey! You have this character that you haven't logged into in 3 years! How about we let you xfer that thing? Maybe a change of scenery will do you some good!
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Re: Where did Cataclysm go wrong?

Postby Archeth » Tue Mar 13, 2012 10:58 am

Flex wrote:
Archeth wrote:Make them free with a cooldown, pay to transfer through cooldown. But they won't do that because by now server transfers are just part of their "cash shop" I guess.


Or they want a deterrent without over-complicating the system.

Yes that's clearly over-complicating it. My bad.

Not.
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Re: Where did Cataclysm go wrong?

Postby Flex » Tue Mar 13, 2012 11:10 am

Archeth wrote:
Flex wrote:
Archeth wrote:Make them free with a cooldown, pay to transfer through cooldown. But they won't do that because by now server transfers are just part of their "cash shop" I guess.


Or they want a deterrent without over-complicating the system.

Yes that's clearly over-complicating it. My bad.

Not.


What's more complicated: X dollars to transfer or X dollars to transfer unless you are outside of Y day transfer window then it is free.

Considering the amount of support tickets that are for easily explained things that I deal with the simpler something is the better. Considering the number of people who didn't bother to read the FAQ for SoR it isn't uncommon in WoW either.

Also have the entire perceived value of the service/race to the bottom pricing. Charge what you feel the service/product is worth. If you offer it for free under certain conditions you are sending a mixed message.
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Re: Where did Cataclysm go wrong?

Postby Dantriges » Tue Mar 13, 2012 11:17 am

Aren´t there some servers with such a tiny pop that they could close them down? A free transfer for them would probabl be good but closin servers seems to be a big nono.
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Re: Where did Cataclysm go wrong?

Postby theckhd » Tue Mar 13, 2012 11:38 am

mavfin wrote:
Nikachelle wrote:First of all, Lieris is a woman.


Fair enough. I guess I never caught that.


If it makes you feel better, I didn't realize it until just now either. *shrug*

Obviously she needs to put more ponies and rainbows in her avatar so we can tell that....
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Never mind.
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Re: Where did Cataclysm go wrong?

Postby Nikachelle » Tue Mar 13, 2012 11:52 am

theckhd wrote:
mavfin wrote:
Nikachelle wrote:First of all, Lieris is a woman.


Fair enough. I guess I never caught that.


If it makes you feel better, I didn't realize it until just now either. *shrug*

Obviously she needs to put more ponies and rainbows in her avatar so we can tell that....
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Never mind.

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Re: Where did Cataclysm go wrong?

Postby Sabindeus » Tue Mar 13, 2012 11:54 am

ahahahahaha
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Re: Where did Cataclysm go wrong?

Postby Darielle » Tue Mar 13, 2012 12:14 pm

Skye1013 wrote:Random question that is totally off the main topic, but on topic for the current one... what changed between Naxx40 and Naxx10/25 that made it suddenly doable by everyone and their grandmother? Did they undertune the damage scaling? Not put enough hp on the bosses? Remove certain fight mechanics?


They both made fight mechanics easier and removed some of them.

For example, you had to LoS Razuvious' Disrupting Shout in Naxx-40, and Heigan was both "harder to dance", and he'd port people into the gauntlet before Loatheb as part of the fight.

Basically anything that hit for "Oh I almost died because I stood in it" in Naxx-10/25 was "Damn, I died" in Naxx-40. You needed to control basically everything that was aoe'd instead of "aoe it even harder bro". (Like the adds on Gothik - you had to space them out properly, instead of not caring cause you just aoe them down faster on the Undead side).

Even simple things - Faerlina in Naxx-10/25 you didn't even have to care if she Enraged or not, you could just tank through it. In Naxx-40, you did care, and the only way to remove the Enrage was to have an add Mind Controlled - which meant you needed to actually keep adds alive instead of zerging them down. Anub'Rekhan needed to be kited around during insect swarm instead of healers standing at max range and bomb-healing the tank.
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