Where did Cataclysm go wrong?

Anything, including off-topic posts

Moderators: Fridmarr, Worldie, Aergis, Sabindeus, PsiVen

Re: Where did Cataclysm go wrong?

Postby Klaudandus » Mon Mar 12, 2012 4:32 pm

Teranoid wrote:
sfrog wrote:So given all of the discontent people have had with Cata raids, and how the Xpac has/is functioning, what would you all do to improve or change it for the better?


T11 was fine imo and probably one of the best tiers of raiding. It had interesting fights and more importantly it was broken up so that everything didn't feel so monotonous. If you were stuck on Cho'gall you could go hit up Throne or BWD instead of wasting your entire night bashing your head against a wall.

Firelands was the same tired "Oh this guy is back that you already chased off once!" They did introduce some interesting mechanics that when they went haywire were downright comical ("Oh look Ryolith is friendly aaaaaaand he's still beating the shit out of us") but in the end for most guilds it was "Oh. We chased Rag off again. Meh."

Dragon Soul is getting as much shit as it has because for being the super duper, be all end all, spiffy final raid of the expansion it falls completely on its face in almost every way. Every single environment these fights take place in before Spine are in the same recycled crap we saw in Wrath. The bosses aren't even original models. We're fighting bosses with the same skins as random 5 man bosses. Spine could have been fantastic but its aesthetics make it look like an 8 year old's science fair project. Madness basically equates to "can you do the same thing 4 times while slowly losing buffs and survive the completely random deaths because Thrall decides to drop people in mid air?"

Some of the fights are fun but everything about this entire raid seems mailed in to the Nth degree which is depressing when you think back to other end of expansion raids. Naxx was holyshit difficult with your average raider never even setting foot in it let alone killing more than maybe Anub. Black Temple and Sunwell felt epic from start to finish. Hell even the LK fight was better than Madness because you had mechanics that required you to stay alert instead of just blindly "DPS limb, kill corruption, stop and kill bolt, okay back to the corruption, aoe bloods, back on the limb".

Killing Deathwing for the first time just felt.. empty? Cho'gall/Nef/Al'akir going down for the first time had people yelling in vent like we all won the lottery. Rag was "Finally.." Deathwing was "yay new title. Bleh."


Which makes me wonder if we should be glad or not that ALL of CATA has less raid bosses than T7 and T8 combined.
The Element of Forum Hyperbole
Image
---
Flüttershy - Draenei Protection Paladin, Aerie Peak
Klaudandus - BE Protection Paladin, Feathermoon (Semi-retired)
User avatar
Klaudandus
 
Posts: 11224
Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2009 7:08 am
Location: Texas' Armpit

Re: Where did Cataclysm go wrong?

Postby Teranoid » Mon Mar 12, 2012 4:37 pm

The thing I had to chuckle about most was Ghostcrawler saying that the Abyssal Maw raid was scrapped due to "not having unique art" and generally just being a rehashed instance. It's like.. *looks at that* *looks at DS* What?

Edit: I have no problem with 7-8 boss instances if that entails not raiding the same instance for 5-6 months.
User avatar
Teranoid
 
Posts: 2156
Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2009 8:56 pm

Re: Where did Cataclysm go wrong?

Postby Klaudandus » Mon Mar 12, 2012 4:42 pm

Teranoid wrote:The thing I had to chuckle about most was Ghostcrawler saying that the Abyssal Maw raid was scrapped due to "not having unique art" and generally just being a rehashed instance. It's like.. *looks at that* *looks at DS* What?


You know, I have had people argue when I say that I am disappointed in the number of raid bosses available in cata vs just T7 and T8 along, saying that Naxx should not count, but seriously, how many people saw NAXX40 in the day?
Last edited by Klaudandus on Mon Mar 12, 2012 4:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The Element of Forum Hyperbole
Image
---
Flüttershy - Draenei Protection Paladin, Aerie Peak
Klaudandus - BE Protection Paladin, Feathermoon (Semi-retired)
User avatar
Klaudandus
 
Posts: 11224
Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2009 7:08 am
Location: Texas' Armpit

Re: Where did Cataclysm go wrong?

Postby Dantriges » Mon Mar 12, 2012 4:51 pm

I wonder if they downsized the graphics department. Firelands was blasted plain with puddles of lava and small annoying pebbles you get stuck on. It didn´t look like there was much effort invested in the instance. Stll better than ToC of course. :wink: Ok Eye of Eternity wasn´t much either but it was only one boss.

Ok there is a common theme in every instance but FL and DS are a very boring environment. DS gets the prize for "no time for graphics this xpac". Never seen so much recycled content.

And Deathwing? Do the same four times, Spine, the same three times. The whole raid is very repetitive at the end.
Dantriges
 
Posts: 1252
Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2008 12:39 am

Re: Where did Cataclysm go wrong?

Postby Lieris » Mon Mar 12, 2012 5:33 pm

Teranoid wrote:The thing I had to chuckle about most was Ghostcrawler saying that the Abyssal Maw raid was scrapped due to "not having unique art" and generally just being a rehashed instance. It's like.. *looks at that* *looks at DS* What?

Edit: I have no problem with 7-8 boss instances if that entails not raiding the same instance for 5-6 months.


Haha yeah, that was a bit oblivious.

They've got fantastic artists at Blizzard but I feel like they all got put on Mists to get that out sooner because Cata was such a failure for their bottom line and Activision wants the expansion monies. I think they really did a number on us with Dragon Soul and that along with this pet store stuff and server/faction changes still costing money is really trying my loyalty as a customer.
Lieris
Maintankadonor
 
Posts: 2181
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2007 7:49 am

Re: Where did Cataclysm go wrong?

Postby Klaudandus » Mon Mar 12, 2012 5:35 pm

Lieris wrote:
Teranoid wrote:The thing I had to chuckle about most was Ghostcrawler saying that the Abyssal Maw raid was scrapped due to "not having unique art" and generally just being a rehashed instance. It's like.. *looks at that* *looks at DS* What?

Edit: I have no problem with 7-8 boss instances if that entails not raiding the same instance for 5-6 months.


Haha yeah, that was a bit oblivious.

They've got fantastic artists at Blizzard but I feel like they all got put on Mists to get that out sooner because Cata was such a failure for their bottom line and Activision wants the expansion monies. I think they really did a number on us with Dragon Soul and that along with this pet store stuff and server/faction changes still costing money is really trying my loyalty as a customer.


Agreed. Blizzard will still get my money -- for now. Bioware? Not so much.
The Element of Forum Hyperbole
Image
---
Flüttershy - Draenei Protection Paladin, Aerie Peak
Klaudandus - BE Protection Paladin, Feathermoon (Semi-retired)
User avatar
Klaudandus
 
Posts: 11224
Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2009 7:08 am
Location: Texas' Armpit

Re: Where did Cataclysm go wrong?

Postby Flex » Mon Mar 12, 2012 6:31 pm

I do not understand dislike of the pet store, or even charging for faction/server transfers.
--
Also he never said Abyssal Maw was scraped because of not having unique art, just that it had no unique art. He was addressing some sort of commonly held belief that the Abyssal Maw raid was going to be huge and amazing when in reality it was Throne of the Four Winds.
We live in a society where people born on third base constantly try to steal second, yet we expect people born with two strikes against them to hit a homerun on the first pitch.
User avatar
Flex
 
Posts: 7505
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2007 7:29 am

Re: Where did Cataclysm go wrong?

Postby Klaudandus » Mon Mar 12, 2012 6:47 pm

The only pet I've ever bought was the wyvern cub with a plushie for my sis. I think the plushie was worth it.

The other stuff? It feels like a cash grab for what they provide
The Element of Forum Hyperbole
Image
---
Flüttershy - Draenei Protection Paladin, Aerie Peak
Klaudandus - BE Protection Paladin, Feathermoon (Semi-retired)
User avatar
Klaudandus
 
Posts: 11224
Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2009 7:08 am
Location: Texas' Armpit

Re: Where did Cataclysm go wrong?

Postby Dantriges » Mon Mar 12, 2012 8:00 pm

Yeah the art was a bit underwhelming since ToC. Ok, they used their personnel in Wrath to rebuild Azeroth. Quite a task. I am a bit surprised that the same thing happens for Mists, too. Indicates that they don´twant to waste precious resources on the last tier. This is a bit weird, because the last tier is what people experience for quite some time before they decide to switch or not. And the last tier looks like they threw out quite a few bandaid fixes again and tell themselves, doesn´t matter, it´s the last tier. I found that annoying in Wrath and feel the same in Cata.

No idea how other people feel but IIRC we had no thread about BC or Wrath where it went wrong.
Dantriges
 
Posts: 1252
Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2008 12:39 am

Re: Where did Cataclysm go wrong?

Postby Darielle » Mon Mar 12, 2012 8:39 pm

But the reality is "let's let the people stuck halfway through reach the end".


This has never held true - a "nudge" is completely different from reducing Spine by one pass entirely, or making it so that in one/two more increments of the buff, there will be zero need to take Barrages on Blackhorn.
It's like suggesting LFR is to "prepare people for raids", and then you actually look at LFR and basically every mechanic that matters is made irrelevant. The PR line and the reality just don't line up.

My only peeve with art is that they ninja-changed Hagara from an Undead Shaman to an Orc.

Two of the biggest things they need to do imo are
- Flesh out fight design so that it doesn't have glaringly obvious holes. Spine should absolutely never have happened - someone should have realised that the design was just bad enough to screw classes that use dots and so on hard. Same with Yor'sahj - some person should have gone "Hey, this kinda plays way too well into a Death Knight's mechanics".
- Ease up on the cycle/repeat fight design and focus more on unique phases. It's a nice concept in small doses.

The third is to stop with the nerfing things into oblivion on Heroic mode.
Darielle
 
Posts: 1319
Joined: Mon Apr 19, 2010 2:41 am
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

Re: Where did Cataclysm go wrong?

Postby Passionario » Mon Mar 12, 2012 10:30 pm

Klaudandus wrote:seriously, how many people saw NAXX40 in the day?


I'm sure that quite a few people saw Naxx40 during TBC.
If you are not the flame, you're the fuel.
User avatar
Passionario
 
Posts: 3374
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 2:52 am

Re: Where did Cataclysm go wrong?

Postby Teranoid » Mon Mar 12, 2012 11:04 pm

Passionario wrote:
Klaudandus wrote:seriously, how many people saw NAXX40 in the day?


I'm sure that quite a few people saw Naxx40 during TBC.


Apparently not enough that it kept them from re-releasing it in T7.
User avatar
Teranoid
 
Posts: 2156
Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2009 8:56 pm

Re: Where did Cataclysm go wrong?

Postby Lieris » Tue Mar 13, 2012 1:16 am

Flex wrote:I do not understand dislike of the pet store, or even charging for faction/server transfers.


Of course you don't, you're the forum troll.

Regarding Naxx, Naxx 40 was harder in Sunwell gear than Naxx 25 was in Sunwell gear.
Lieris
Maintankadonor
 
Posts: 2181
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2007 7:49 am

Re: Where did Cataclysm go wrong?

Postby Worldie » Tue Mar 13, 2012 1:24 am

Thaddius : DDDDDD.
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
User avatar
Worldie
Global Mod
 
Posts: 13562
Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2007 1:49 pm
Location: Italy

Re: Where did Cataclysm go wrong?

Postby Lieris » Tue Mar 13, 2012 1:28 am

My enduring memory of Thaddius is people ruining Immortal runs. :(
Lieris
Maintankadonor
 
Posts: 2181
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2007 7:49 am

PreviousNext

Return to General

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Lastwolf and 1 guest

Who is online

In total there are 3 users online :: 1 registered, 1 hidden and 1 guest (based on users active over the past 5 minutes)
Most users ever online was 380 on Tue Oct 14, 2008 6:28 pm

Users browsing this forum: Lastwolf and 1 guest