Remove Advertisements

Where did Cataclysm go wrong?

Anything, including off-topic posts

Moderators: Fridmarr, Worldie, Aergis, Sabindeus, PsiVen

Re: Where did Cataclysm go wrong?

Postby Worldie » Mon Mar 12, 2012 3:04 am

Well I still find a couple of fights in Dragon Soul actually entertaining, mainly Zonozz hc and Warmaster, but yeh Dragon Soul isn't the best raid they have come out with.
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
User avatar
Worldie
Global Mod
 
Posts: 13306
Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2007 1:49 pm
Location: Italy

Re: Where did Cataclysm go wrong?

Postby Fenrìr » Mon Mar 12, 2012 3:13 am

I found it so hard to concentrate this weekend. And it just got worse when we constantly failed on Madness.
Image
Fenrìr
Maintankadonor
 
Posts: 1237
Joined: Fri Nov 13, 2009 9:41 am

Re: Where did Cataclysm go wrong?

Postby sfrog » Mon Mar 12, 2012 4:44 am

So given all of the discontent people have had with Cata raids, and how the Xpac has/is functioning, what would you all do to improve or change it for the better?
Image
Without Honor...there is no Hope.
User avatar
sfrog
 
Posts: 219
Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2008 1:16 am
Location: Anchorage, Alaska

Re: Where did Cataclysm go wrong?

Postby Worldie » Mon Mar 12, 2012 4:49 am

Imo, the first thing they should do to make people happy is a clear definition of the difficulty. If "LFR is for the casuals, Normal for the normal raiders, Heroic for the hardcores", then stuff like the increasing nerf to Dragon Soul should never happen. If the idea is "Let's make the bads experience all the difficulty" then they are going on a bad direction.
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
User avatar
Worldie
Global Mod
 
Posts: 13306
Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2007 1:49 pm
Location: Italy

Re: Where did Cataclysm go wrong?

Postby KysenMurrin » Mon Mar 12, 2012 4:53 am

But the reality is "let's let the people stuck halfway through reach the end".
I don't play WoW any more.
Donnan - Nangun - Kysen - Kysen - Mardun - Timkins

Mostly-Book Blog.
KysenMurrin
 
Posts: 6814
Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2008 6:37 am
Location: UK

Re: Where did Cataclysm go wrong?

Postby Skye1013 » Mon Mar 12, 2012 4:57 am

Friend of mine quit almost purely because of the change to talent trees. He's big on playing around with his spec (even if he ends up with "sub-optimal" ones), and the "dumbing down" they've done has really taken out quite a bit of his enjoyment (he really enjoys Rift because of their soul trees.) Otoh, I do think making it less of a headache for new players is a good idea.
"me no gay, me friends gay, me no like you call me gay, you dumb dumb" -bldavis
"Here are the values that I stand for: I stand for honesty, equality, kindness, compassion, treating people the way you wanna be treated, and helping those in need. To me, those are traditional values. That’s what I stand for." -Ellen Degeneres
"I'm not going to censor myself to comfort your ignorance." -Jon Stewart
Horde: Clopin Dylon Sharkbait Xiaman Metria Metapriest
Alliance: Schatze Aleks Deegee Baileyi Sotanaht Danfer Shazta Rawrsalot Roobyroo
User avatar
Skye1013
Maintankadonor
 
Posts: 3918
Joined: Tue May 18, 2010 5:47 am
Location: JBPH-Hickam, Hawaii

Re: Where did Cataclysm go wrong?

Postby benebarba » Mon Mar 12, 2012 7:25 am

sfrog wrote:So given all of the discontent people have had with Cata raids, and how the Xpac has/is functioning, what would you all do to improve or change it for the better?


I think reintroducing some level of non-linearity to questing, reducing the number of cutscenes/'be the companion' quests, and not having a single designed-in 'must do' leveling zone (Deepholm to get to Therazane for the enchants) would take care of a lot of the leveling complaints.

As far as heroics: I'd like the overall idea of the short and sweet DS 5-mans (short, with some interesting mechanical bosses and some neat lore) but I think having something like HoO or the trollroics post-boss-number-nerf where if a group so decides they can have a pretty cool mini-raid but it isn't required to do them all for the LFD completion. I'm also discounting the ilvl jump in the DS 5-mans (as in minimum required to what drops), since I'm fairly convinced that was a product of LFR coming out at the same time and how late they came relative to the trollroics.

Raids: Can't speak much there, but I'd say don't make any full raids where you have no choice in the order of any of the bosses. I don't think they'll ever actually manage the 'smaller, sooner, more often' raid or heroic idea and should stop acting like they will.

Overall class/talent design: I'm kinda meh on it as it is currently for the classes I play. Don't think it was as big a deal as other stuff.

Thrall should disappear and never be spoken of for at least one expansion.
benebarba
 
Posts: 2469
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 7:30 am

Re: Where did Cataclysm go wrong?

Postby Skye1013 » Mon Mar 12, 2012 7:47 am

benebarba wrote:Thrall should disappear and never be spoken of for at least one expansion.

He's no longer the Horde Warchief, and as one of the Aspects, it's possible he'll stick to the shadows for an xpac... somewhere down the line...

As for never being spoken of... they'd have to change some quests and NPC conversations for that to be fully implemented.
"me no gay, me friends gay, me no like you call me gay, you dumb dumb" -bldavis
"Here are the values that I stand for: I stand for honesty, equality, kindness, compassion, treating people the way you wanna be treated, and helping those in need. To me, those are traditional values. That’s what I stand for." -Ellen Degeneres
"I'm not going to censor myself to comfort your ignorance." -Jon Stewart
Horde: Clopin Dylon Sharkbait Xiaman Metria Metapriest
Alliance: Schatze Aleks Deegee Baileyi Sotanaht Danfer Shazta Rawrsalot Roobyroo
User avatar
Skye1013
Maintankadonor
 
Posts: 3918
Joined: Tue May 18, 2010 5:47 am
Location: JBPH-Hickam, Hawaii

Re: Where did Cataclysm go wrong?

Postby KysenMurrin » Mon Mar 12, 2012 7:57 am

I like the talent direction. Lately I've been finding myself mix-matching glyphs to different fights, and respeccing to move a couple points around, and the MoP system will introduce even more of this - and the changes won't mean you automatically become sub-optimal by playing around with different talents, because you're not, say, dropping 2% damage for a little situational utility.

I don't have a strong opinion on 5-mans because I've barely played any at level cap since T11. They were too difficult for the LFG system early on, though.

Regarding the raid design, I quite liked the way they did T11. Having mid-sized and small raids, but releasing multiple in a tier, works. Having just one mid-sized raid for a full tier doesn't work as well.

I don't think they necessarily need to make it all big 15 boss tiers, but 7-8 is a bit light.
I don't play WoW any more.
Donnan - Nangun - Kysen - Kysen - Mardun - Timkins

Mostly-Book Blog.
KysenMurrin
 
Posts: 6814
Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2008 6:37 am
Location: UK

Re: Where did Cataclysm go wrong?

Postby benebarba » Mon Mar 12, 2012 8:20 am

Skye1013 wrote:
benebarba wrote:Thrall should disappear and never be spoken of for at least one expansion.

He's no longer the Horde Warchief, and as one of the Aspects, it's possible he'll stick to the shadows for an xpac... somewhere down the line...

As for never being spoken of... they'd have to change some quests and NPC conversations for that to be fully implemented.


I was using a bit of hyperbole in my original post, but I'll believe him being in the shadows when I see it. I actually much preferred him towards the beginning of cataclysm (prior to that he was the Warchief of the Horde, period, for me so I didn't have an opinion one way or the other really) than say now, where he's become the ZOMGuber world shaman that really just needs us as errand boys and meatshields/boss annoyances.
benebarba
 
Posts: 2469
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 7:30 am

Re: Where did Cataclysm go wrong?

Postby Hrobertgar » Mon Mar 12, 2012 8:27 am

Yea, I am also tired of Thrall. Whenever I get HoT dungeon and we are on the last boss, Ido some RP of my own.

/say

'Thrall, you selfish bastard, give the man the Dragaon Soul already'

'POWER? You have been seduced by the power of the dark side'
I don't actually play SWTOR, its just a usually irresistible opening.


Usually I get some laughs, sometimes the other party members even play along.
Never Pug a random Troll Heroic, always wait for the guild group.

Hrobearina - 85 Healer - space goat
Hrobertgar - 85 Tank - human
Hrobernia - 85 Arcane - human
Hrobanka - 85 BM - elf
Hrobertgar
 
Posts: 704
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2011 2:42 pm

Re: Where did Cataclysm go wrong?

Postby benebarba » Mon Mar 12, 2012 8:35 am

I guess one advantage to thrall being so prominent in the last tier heroics and raids is that folks leveling down the road won't have what sometimes seems to be a 'all thrall, all the time!' experience :P
benebarba
 
Posts: 2469
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 7:30 am

Re: Where did Cataclysm go wrong?

Postby Skye1013 » Mon Mar 12, 2012 9:03 am

All that power and he still can't figure out how to move faster than an RP walk (ghostwolf rp walk?)...
"me no gay, me friends gay, me no like you call me gay, you dumb dumb" -bldavis
"Here are the values that I stand for: I stand for honesty, equality, kindness, compassion, treating people the way you wanna be treated, and helping those in need. To me, those are traditional values. That’s what I stand for." -Ellen Degeneres
"I'm not going to censor myself to comfort your ignorance." -Jon Stewart
Horde: Clopin Dylon Sharkbait Xiaman Metria Metapriest
Alliance: Schatze Aleks Deegee Baileyi Sotanaht Danfer Shazta Rawrsalot Roobyroo
User avatar
Skye1013
Maintankadonor
 
Posts: 3918
Joined: Tue May 18, 2010 5:47 am
Location: JBPH-Hickam, Hawaii

Re: Where did Cataclysm go wrong?

Postby benebarba » Mon Mar 12, 2012 9:19 am

Skye1013 wrote:All that power and he still can't figure out how to move faster than an RP walk (ghostwolf rp walk?)...


It's those beads. They're made of lead. :P
benebarba
 
Posts: 2469
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 7:30 am

Re: Where did Cataclysm go wrong?

Postby Teranoid » Mon Mar 12, 2012 4:28 pm

sfrog wrote:So given all of the discontent people have had with Cata raids, and how the Xpac has/is functioning, what would you all do to improve or change it for the better?


T11 was fine imo and probably one of the best tiers of raiding. It had interesting fights and more importantly it was broken up so that everything didn't feel so monotonous. If you were stuck on Cho'gall you could go hit up Throne or BWD instead of wasting your entire night bashing your head against a wall.

Firelands was the same tired "Oh this guy is back that you already chased off once!" They did introduce some interesting mechanics that when they went haywire were downright comical ("Oh look Ryolith is friendly aaaaaaand he's still beating the shit out of us") but in the end for most guilds it was "Oh. We chased Rag off again. Meh."

Dragon Soul is getting as much shit as it has because for being the super duper, be all end all, spiffy final raid of the expansion it falls completely on its face in almost every way. Every single environment these fights take place in before Spine are in the same recycled crap we saw in Wrath. The bosses aren't even original models. We're fighting bosses with the same skins as random 5 man bosses. Spine could have been fantastic but its aesthetics make it look like an 8 year old's science fair project. Madness basically equates to "can you do the same thing 4 times while slowly losing buffs and survive the completely random deaths because Thrall decides to drop people in mid air?"

Some of the fights are fun but everything about this entire raid seems mailed in to the Nth degree which is depressing when you think back to other end of expansion raids. Naxx was holyshit difficult with your average raider never even setting foot in it let alone killing more than maybe Anub. Black Temple and Sunwell felt epic from start to finish. Hell even the LK fight was better than Madness because you had mechanics that required you to stay alert instead of just blindly "DPS limb, kill corruption, stop and kill bolt, okay back to the corruption, aoe bloods, back on the limb".

Killing Deathwing for the first time just felt.. empty? Cho'gall/Nef/Al'akir going down for the first time had people yelling in vent like we all won the lottery. Rag was "Finally.." Deathwing was "yay new title. Bleh."
User avatar
Teranoid
 
Posts: 2156
Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2009 8:56 pm

PreviousNext

Return to General

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


Remove Advertisements

Who is online

In total there is 1 user online :: 0 registered, 0 hidden and 1 guest (based on users active over the past 5 minutes)
Most users ever online was 380 on Tue Oct 14, 2008 6:28 pm

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest