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LFR Exploit - Loot / Tier drop farming

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Re: LFR Exploit - Loot / Tier drop farming

Postby Zacharia » Tue Dec 13, 2011 12:05 pm

halabar wrote:
Zacharia wrote:
halabar wrote:This is a bit different. The guy is a tool, but we've had resets before that allowed people to go back in to other raids and such.


How is it different from the LFR loot exploit that got so many guilds banned?


Because the Blizzard maintenance schedule is creating the problem.

First case: Guilds discover bug in system that requires coordinated effort to bypass loot system, having one fresh body pass on loot, and then everyone else zones back in and can divide loot.

Second case: After maintenance, random noob looks and says, "Hey, I can run it again!!!".


Blizzard oversight caused both.

If the statement by a Blizzard representative (outside of the game) that LFR loot is only intended to be available once per lockout period is held as law, as has been discussed for the first case, then by rolling on loot when it is available for a second time in a lockout period the person is exploiting an error/oversight in Blizzard's game system.

They may be able to move this into a grey area because what is the definition of a lockout period anyway? But wait, what is this? In Blizzard's official statement about the LFR exploit bans they define the lockout period as one week. (http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/3657282028) So rolling on gear twice in one week is clearly defined as an exploit under the same principles.

There can, however, certainly be questions about the intent with which it is exploited.
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Re: LFR Exploit - Loot / Tier drop farming

Postby Fridmarr » Tue Dec 13, 2011 12:23 pm

Lockout period is whatever the server says it is. Various instances in the past have lockouts of less than a week. I assume if the lockout reset you can't continue where you left off either.
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Re: LFR Exploit - Loot / Tier drop farming

Postby halabar » Tue Dec 13, 2011 12:24 pm

Zacharia wrote:
halabar wrote:Because the Blizzard maintenance schedule is creating the problem.

First case: Guilds discover bug in system that requires coordinated effort to bypass loot system, having one fresh body pass on loot, and then everyone else zones back in and can divide loot.

Second case: After maintenance, random noob looks and says, "Hey, I can run it again!!!".


Blizzard oversight caused both.

If the statement by a Blizzard representative (outside of the game) that LFR loot is only intended to be available once per lockout period is held as law, as has been discussed for the first case, then by rolling on loot when it is available for a second time in a lockout period the person is exploiting an error/oversight in Blizzard's game system.

They may be able to move this into a grey area because what is the definition of a lockout period anyway? But wait, what is this? In Blizzard's official statement about the LFR exploit bans they define the lockout period as one week. (http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/3657282028) So rolling on gear twice in one week is clearly defined as an exploit under the same principles.

There can, however, certainly be questions about the intent with which it is exploited.


This has happened before with holiday quests and the MF dailies. Resets happen, and sometimes everyone gets to take advantage, if they know about it.

But since this one doesn't require intent, I don't expect Blizz to do much about it, other than hopefully fix it.

If Blizz did a reset in the middle of the week, would you stay out of LFR on principle?.. :wink:
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Re: LFR Exploit - Loot / Tier drop farming

Postby Koatanga » Tue Dec 13, 2011 12:43 pm

For what it's worth, I play on an oceanic server and have not used the double-reset, and won't in the future.

Which probably makes me an idiot or clueless or whatever, but I'm cool with that.

We ordered some Kindles from Amazon to be delivered to my sister's place in the USA (since Amazon won't ship the new ones overseas yet). UPS showed delivery, but my sister didn't receive them. We got in touch with Amazon, who were great about it and re-shipped the order. Those Kindles arrived safely and were sent on. Next day, a neighbour of my sister comes over with a package that was delivered to her place by mistake that very morning. It turned out to be the Kindles that were allegedly "delivered" the previous week, according to UPS.

Being idiots and clueless, we contacted Amazon, who are sending call tags for the original Kindles. We could have kept them - nobody would have been hurt - but it was not ethically correct to do so any more than it would be ethically correct to take advantages of exploits in WoW.

I wonder how many on either side of this ethics debate would have kept the Kindles.
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Re: LFR Exploit - Loot / Tier drop farming

Postby halabar » Tue Dec 13, 2011 12:52 pm

Koatanga wrote:For what it's worth, I play on an oceanic server and have not used the double-reset, and won't in the future.

Which probably makes me an idiot or clueless or whatever, but I'm cool with that.


Receiving extra IRL goods is a different story, esp of high value. But I'm glad to see you would do that.

There's another question about the reset... what is the timing involved?.. It's one thing if you have to run it in 3 hours before the maintenance window, but another if the reset happens in the middle of your play week.

Did the valor get reset too? can you earn 2k valor for the week?

In some regards this one is like speeding, where everyone is doing 10 miles over the speed limit.

If the majority of players on the server knew about the reset, and had a reasonable timeframe to take advantage of it, this is different.
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Re: LFR Exploit - Loot / Tier drop farming

Postby Koatanga » Tue Dec 13, 2011 3:06 pm

halabar wrote:Receiving extra IRL goods is a different story, esp of high value. But I'm glad to see you would do that.

There's another question about the reset... what is the timing involved?.. It's one thing if you have to run it in 3 hours before the maintenance window, but another if the reset happens in the middle of your play week.

Did the valor get reset too? can you earn 2k valor for the week?

In some regards this one is like speeding, where everyone is doing 10 miles over the speed limit.

If the majority of players on the server knew about the reset, and had a reasonable timeframe to take advantage of it, this is different.


The funny thing is that the higher the value, the more likely some are to keep them. Someone might not exploit a game, but free Kindles and no one gets hurt? Hell yeah.

I haven't looked into the reset exploit beyond knowing it exists, so I can't say what it does and doesn't do. I reckon it's not something I'll be doing, so I don't need to bother with details.
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Re: LFR Exploit - Loot / Tier drop farming

Postby Kelaan » Tue Dec 13, 2011 3:30 pm

You'd probably return a Netflix disc that you'd reported as lost, if you found it, I bet. (Don't worry, we did too. ;))
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Re: LFR Exploit - Loot / Tier drop farming

Postby mavfin » Tue Dec 13, 2011 3:41 pm

Kelaan wrote:You'd probably return a Netflix disc that you'd reported as lost, if you found it, I bet. (Don't worry, we did too. ;))


Yeah, I'd do all of the examples here. I'd return the Kindles, return the Netflix disc, and I don't cheat in multiplayer games. I don't like people to steal from me, so I don't steal from others.

Also, take responsibility for your own actions, and don't blame Blizzard for something you debated whether to do, planned, and did. The guilds involved in this, including Treck's, for the most part have done so. It's their defenders that continue to keep looking for someone else to take the blame, or keep insisting nothing was done to deserve the bans.

Edit: Treck <> Theck
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Re: LFR Exploit - Loot / Tier drop farming

Postby Threck » Tue Dec 13, 2011 3:54 pm

mavfin wrote:Edit: Treck < (Threck?) > Theck
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Re: LFR Exploit - Loot / Tier drop farming

Postby Kihra » Tue Dec 13, 2011 3:58 pm

Threck wrote:
mavfin wrote:Edit: Treck < (Threck?) > Theck


Mind = Blown.
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Re: LFR Exploit - Loot / Tier drop farming

Postby Archeth » Tue Dec 13, 2011 4:07 pm

Zacharia wrote:Blizzard oversight caused both.

If the statement by a Blizzard representative (outside of the game) that LFR loot is only intended to be available once per lockout period is held as law, as has been discussed for the first case, then by rolling on loot when it is available for a second time in a lockout period the person is exploiting an error/oversight in Blizzard's game system.

They may be able to move this into a grey area because what is the definition of a lockout period anyway? But wait, what is this? In Blizzard's official statement about the LFR exploit bans they define the lockout period as one week. (http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/3657282028) So rolling on gear twice in one week is clearly defined as an exploit under the same principles.

There can, however, certainly be questions about the intent with which it is exploited.

It's not really the same thing and I just don't agree when people claim "Blizzard oversight caused the first exploit", you needed to do very specific actions to get the additional loot and the fact that under normal circumstances it was not possible, and according to Blizzard statements not long ago not intended, should have been strong hints that this was an exploit.

Playing normally and having lockouts reset for everyone is different and happened in the past so you can't make the case that people should treat it as an exploit. Lockout is "one week" but they moved the reset dates around in the past, how are players (who are all equally affected and all playing normally) know it's a glitch or Blizzard intentionally resetting lockouts before telling people?
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Re: LFR Exploit - Loot / Tier drop farming

Postby djlar » Tue Dec 13, 2011 4:16 pm

I haven't seen the official forums (websensed), but I can almost bet the U.S. Players are raging why the Oceanic players were able to get double chances each week and they aren't..

Some players I bet they will roll characters on those just to do that.. LOL
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Re: LFR Exploit - Loot / Tier drop farming

Postby mavfin » Tue Dec 13, 2011 4:43 pm

Threck wrote:
mavfin wrote:Edit: Treck < (Threck?) > Theck


LOL, listen to what I mean, not what I type!

Yeah, you, Threck. :D
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Re: LFR Exploit - Loot / Tier drop farming

Postby Koatanga » Tue Dec 13, 2011 4:51 pm

And here I thought it was Mike Meyers with a lisp.
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Re: LFR Exploit - Loot / Tier drop farming

Postby Sagara » Wed Dec 14, 2011 12:04 am

Threck wrote:
mavfin wrote:Edit: Treck < (Threck?) > Theck


Not THIS again! :oops:
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