LFR Exploit - Loot / Tier drop farming

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Re: LFR Exploit - Loot / Tier drop farming

Postby KysenMurrin » Fri Dec 02, 2011 2:48 pm

The first Lich King kill controlled access to heroic mode, does that not make it important?
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Re: LFR Exploit - Loot / Tier drop farming

Postby RedAces » Fri Dec 02, 2011 2:49 pm

Treck wrote:
Shoju wrote:THIS IS A FUCKING VIDEO GAME.

NO ONE REALLY CARES

Apparently people do, and you cant say no to that, cuz clearly, people are upset one way or another, id say that is caring.


/agreeing with Treck.

If no one (and you) wouldn't care, why are you shouting at him? Seems like you and other people care. Seems like Blizzard cares. Stop this bullshit argument...
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Re: LFR Exploit - Loot / Tier drop farming

Postby Klaudandus » Fri Dec 02, 2011 2:50 pm

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Were you aware of this bug since the PTR, yes or no?
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Re: LFR Exploit - Loot / Tier drop farming

Postby Senador » Fri Dec 02, 2011 2:51 pm

Well, there are two things here.

First, I don’t particularly agree with the action; however, I do understand why they would. I believe there should be some punishment towards everyone who used or benefited from it and didn’t report it (And those that did report it, the additional loot should still be removed).

The second though, is that the top guilds that did this don’t really care what a lot of the player base thinks of them as a player. Not because they are terrible people, not because they have atrocious personalities, but because it doesn’t matter what they do or don’t do a very vocal portion of the gaming population will hate and decry them constantly. They could literally spend every non raiding hour giving away free gold, BoEs and consumables to people and they would still be hated. Why should they care what people who hate them think?

To them, the game they play is to compete against each other to not only be the best but to be able to prove it as well. It’s a different game played on the same engine and using the same mechanics as the rest of the gaming population. It’s this drive that creates things like Elitist Jerks to refine and parse out player performance as best as possible, or to find small tweaks and bizarre game interactions (Pestilence Glyph providing extra damage, etc) that is then passed on that a large population of the game then latch onto and claim as gospel.

In the end, the only things that the actions do are tarnish their names to a group that already largely disdains and despises them, and affects their competition with others across various servers.

The most humorous thing about it is… what does it affect most of us here? It doesn’t, at all. The vast majority here aren’t competing. We’re just going on about our own little gaming experience, and their actions do not in any way, shape or form affect us. Them having additional 384 epics for set bonus’ do not affect our game play, our enjoyment or the way we function at all. Yet we’ll certainly denounce them. Odd, how when some people complain about the lower end players getting additional gear, loot or rewards that don’t affect us at all, we’ll defend them and attack anyone who says they don’t deserve it. A pretty nice double standard…
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Re: LFR Exploit - Loot / Tier drop farming

Postby RedAces » Fri Dec 02, 2011 2:53 pm

Shoju wrote:Treck, when I said no one really cares, this is the part I was talking about. You are an anonymous fake celebrity to a few kids on the internet. That's what is at stake here.


A few kids on the internet amount to 10mio people of this planet. Or maybe just 1% of that. 100k is still a fucking huge number of people!

But why do you care so much that you have to shout at him ? THEY thought it was worth it, he said "Go ahead and punish us". You obv. care very much about it. And why the hell do you judge whats important for them? WHY?! Internet fame may be unimportant for you, but wth! They are old enough to have their own opinions or not?
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Re: LFR Exploit - Loot / Tier drop farming

Postby Shoju » Fri Dec 02, 2011 2:55 pm

RedAces wrote:
Treck wrote:
Shoju wrote:THIS IS A FUCKING VIDEO GAME.

NO ONE REALLY CARES

Apparently people do, and you cant say no to that, cuz clearly, people are upset one way or another, id say that is caring.


/agreeing with Treck.

If no one (and you) wouldn't care, why are you shouting at him? Seems like you and other people care. Seems like Blizzard cares. Stop this bullshit argument...



If you go back and read my posts, they haven't been about the LFR. I have talked about the hypocrisy of criticizing stars for what they just did, and for the terrible reasoning of "because they were doing it, we had to"

I'm not upset that they exploited. I firmly fall into the camp of people who would say "Blizzard should have known" But I'm also in the camp that says "They should have known it was wrong, and they should have reported it"

My caps lock 'shouting' has absolutely nothing to do with the game, and everything to do with this awful mentality that its ok to exploit because that guy was exploiting, and I can't lose any ground to him.

You will notice that I have taken a very similar stance about things with Theck, in the MoP discussions, because this idea that you have to keep up with the jones's to stay competitive is complete and utter garbage.

So no. I don't care, and I haven't cared past my original posting of saying yes, that's an exploit about the game.
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Re: LFR Exploit - Loot / Tier drop farming

Postby fafhrd » Fri Dec 02, 2011 2:55 pm

Shoju wrote:
Treck wrote:
Shoju wrote:And the parent in me still screams: If Johnny jumps off that bridge are you going to jump off it to?

Is johnny getting shittons of facebook likes, and internet fame for landing first, oh and also not dying?
Then you bet id jump off and try to hit the ground faster than him.
Paragon is NOT dying from this, they "might" get a bann, they might not, were in the same boat.
This might end up a terrible progress for both of us, but atleast, we are BOTH screwed.
And honestly, the only guild we care about is paragon.

Shoju wrote:Seriously. This takes the whole "BUT THEY DO IT SO I HAVE TO DO IT" to an extreme level.

Show some level of self control.

Were not 5year olds who cant think for ourselves.
We have had long talks about if we should or should not use this to our advantage (and possible demise)
And we took the decision to start using it as we believe the possible advantages outweigh the far slimmer option of beeing banned.
Also, all publicity is good publicity.
Currently paragons site is about to break for beeing overflown with visitors, and our current online users peaked at over 2k today, just cuz of this, you have any idea of how much paragon gains on this even if it sheds some bad light on them?


facebook likes?
internet fame?
Enjoy the subsidiaries from the advertising dollar I guess?

I don't even know what to say anymore. internet celebrity is at stake here....

Treck, when I said no one really cares, this is the part I was talking about. You are an anonymous fake celebrity to a few kids on the internet. That's what is at stake here.


Shoju, wtf. Yes it's a game, but this is a game forum. If you think the game is pointless and competition has no value, don't make four thousand posts about it on a random pointless forum on the web about it, go live your life.
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Re: LFR Exploit - Loot / Tier drop farming

Postby Steve » Fri Dec 02, 2011 2:56 pm

Most people don't really know or care about Paragon or whatever guild Treck is in. (I only know about Paragon because it has mentioned a bunch of times.) I don't care whether they take the gear away or not, or ban them for 72 hours, or ban them forever, or send Russian mobsters to their homes to smash their computers with baseball bats.

That said, it's probably not a great idea to get a reputation for exploiting. Using a sports analogy, look at how people view the accomplishments of players who have tested positive for performance enhancing drugs. Every accomplishment they've had in the past or future is tarnished by the question of whether they did it cleanly.

The people that actually follow this kind of stuff will now have to wonder about every past and future accomplishment and whether it was done without exploiting. Yeah, you had to deal with that kinda crap before, but now every time your guild gets a world first -- EVERY SINGLE TIME -- someone is going to mention this incident and wonder whether you exploited.

Now, you shouldn't really care. Praise/condemnation should be water off a duck's back. You know whether you did it cleanly and that's all that matters.

But not all publicity is good publicity. You have to be a delusional to think that.
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Re: LFR Exploit - Loot / Tier drop farming

Postby Shoju » Fri Dec 02, 2011 2:57 pm

You know what Faf. You're right.

Sab. Ban me please. I'm not even joking.

Later all.
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Re: LFR Exploit - Loot / Tier drop farming

Postby Treck » Fri Dec 02, 2011 3:00 pm

Shoju wrote:facebook likes?
internet fame?
Enjoy the subsidiaries from the advertising dollar I guess?

I don't even know what to say anymore. internet celebrity is at stake here....

Treck, when I said no one really cares, this is the part I was talking about. You are an anonymous fake celebrity to a few kids on the internet. That's what is at stake here.

Beleave it or not, but WoW DOES generate money.
We are sponsored by razer, they sent our GM to blizzcon just to promote Razer, they obviously expect to gain a lot more on our sponsorship than they spent on sending him there.
I went to DH a week ago to help promote, and they are sending our raiders stuff to use for quite a lot of money.
I dont get a salary on playing wow, i have a job that i rely on for that, sadly.
But one day, e-sports will be big in the rest of the world (and not just Korea) and people will actually be able to make a living out of it.
But gaming is still a very young medium of entertainment, and the older generations dont understand it at all since they havnt experienced it themselves.

And yes, internet celebrity is important for me, i would be very happy if i could actually play for a living, without people looking down on you when you say your a gamer.
We are far from there yet (and i dont mean our guild, but rather our society) but that is something i feel is important to promote, so that it might be like that one day.

Fake celebrity? where is the list of what classifies a "real" celebrity over a fake one?
Atleast im somewhat of a fake celebrity internationally, than a "real" celebrity in a local town none from anywhere else has ever heard of.
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Re: LFR Exploit - Loot / Tier drop farming

Postby mavfin » Fri Dec 02, 2011 3:02 pm

Klaudandus wrote:
Treck wrote:
Klaudandus wrote:I just don't like the sudden hypocrisy complaining about STARS and its exploit, and then exploiting the game systematically to get the edge.

See, thats where you are wrong.
We DIDNT use it to get an edge, we used it (cuz we know others were doing the same) to not fall behind.


It's still a cop out.


Agreed. It's still *knowingly* exploiting the game to get an edge. And that should warrant at least a week ban and the removal of the items.

Saying 'Everyone else is doing it' is not a defense. It's just an excuse that doesn't mean a damned thing.
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Re: LFR Exploit - Loot / Tier drop farming

Postby RedAces » Fri Dec 02, 2011 3:03 pm

Shoju, this bug was exploited since tuesday and reported on wednesdays (afaik) and Blizzard did nothing for 2 days. (At least thats what I heard...)

You don't see the difference between the thing Stars did and Method? Really? Stars paid hard cash to use a bug that NO OTHER Top 10 guild could use and started heroics 5 days early.

Method (sry for using you as the example but I don't know which US guild started this whole exploit-shenanigans) used a bug that every guild out there used, that was know to public for 24h and obv. no blizzard-response!

You really don't a the big big big difference here? wth
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Re: LFR Exploit - Loot / Tier drop farming

Postby PsiVen » Fri Dec 02, 2011 3:04 pm

Treck wrote:Im not saying its not an exploit, but if all your competitors are doing the same, then beeing able to sleep good at night is a small Consolation prize for someone who finnishes sub top 20...


There's a reason rankings don't (shouldn't) count kills that involve exploits. Doing it without exploiting isn't a small consolation prize. If you got Heroic Deathwing 21st but everyone ahead of you cheated, grats on the world first legit kill. If everyone worth mentioning is doing it, that just means it will either gain acceptance or the entire competitive scene loses serious credibility.

By the way, you guys can stop flaming each other now. I'm sure this is a heated issue, but just take a deep breath...
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Re: LFR Exploit - Loot / Tier drop farming

Postby Teranoid » Fri Dec 02, 2011 3:04 pm

Senador wrote:Well, there are two things here.

First, I don’t particularly agree with the action; however, I do understand why they would. I believe there should be some punishment towards everyone who used or benefited from it and didn’t report it (And those that did report it, the additional loot should still be removed).

The second though, is that the top guilds that did this don’t really care what a lot of the player base thinks of them as a player. Not because they are terrible people, not because they have atrocious personalities, but because it doesn’t matter what they do or don’t do a very vocal portion of the gaming population will hate and decry them constantly. They could literally spend every non raiding hour giving away free gold, BoEs and consumables to people and they would still be hated. Why should they care what people who hate them think?

To them, the game they play is to compete against each other to not only be the best but to be able to prove it as well. It’s a different game played on the same engine and using the same mechanics as the rest of the gaming population. It’s this drive that creates things like Elitist Jerks to refine and parse out player performance as best as possible, or to find small tweaks and bizarre game interactions (Pestilence Glyph providing extra damage, etc) that is then passed on that a large population of the game then latch onto and claim as gospel.

In the end, the only things that the actions do are tarnish their names to a group that already largely disdains and despises them, and affects their competition with others across various servers.

The most humorous thing about it is… what does it affect most of us here? It doesn’t, at all. The vast majority here aren’t competing. We’re just going on about our own little gaming experience, and their actions do not in any way, shape or form affect us. Them having additional 384 epics for set bonus’ do not affect our game play, our enjoyment or the way we function at all. Yet we’ll certainly denounce them. Odd, how when some people complain about the lower end players getting additional gear, loot or rewards that don’t affect us at all, we’ll defend them and attack anyone who says they don’t deserve it. A pretty nice double standard…


This probably the best post in this thread. The sheer amount of jealousy and envy that runs through people that play this game is ridiculous and this thread is a prime example of it. Its almost disgusting how the needle flies from "Wow this guild is great they're #1 in every tier" to "they're a bunch of bullshit cheaters what a load of shit" . Half the people making these ridiculous statements have no idea of the mindset of a top 5 guild let alone how things are conducted outside of livestream raids. Hell I don't even know half of what it takes but I know enough to realize that everything is a race for these guilds. You take every advantage you can get whether its spending hours and hours on the PTR or what have you.

The most hilarious part is what Senador said about EJ and the like. Without these guilds half the people who play this game wouldn't have a clue how to spec/gem/enchant let alone spend less than 2 months trying to figure out how to kill a boss. Guilds other than Vodka/Method/Paragon and the like would not be shit without all the videos and strats these guilds write up to help the raiding community yet everyone is so fast to stomp them out and demonize them for trying to keep up.

Just another nod to the idea that this community has basically turned to complete shit.
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Re: LFR Exploit - Loot / Tier drop farming

Postby Skye1013 » Fri Dec 02, 2011 3:05 pm

Treck wrote:Also, all publicity is good publicity.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHJVolaC8pw

And where are these guys now?
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