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LFR Exploit - Loot / Tier drop farming

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Re: LFR Exploit - Loot / Tier drop farming

Postby KysenMurrin » Fri Dec 02, 2011 12:45 pm

Well the blue said they were putting in a hotfix for it, so maybe it'll just be made impossible to do and nothin else will need changing.
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Re: LFR Exploit - Loot / Tier drop farming

Postby Klaudandus » Fri Dec 02, 2011 12:45 pm

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Re: LFR Exploit - Loot / Tier drop farming

Postby Klaudandus » Fri Dec 02, 2011 12:46 pm

KysenMurrin wrote:Well the blue said they were putting in a hotfix for it, so maybe it'll just be made impossible to do and nothin else will need changing.



I still want them to get a temporary suspension, something that hurts their progression, their e-peens.
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Re: LFR Exploit - Loot / Tier drop farming

Postby halabar » Fri Dec 02, 2011 12:51 pm



That first guy was claiming in their forums that he logged in and unequipped all the gear. Hopefully there is at least some ban in place as well.
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Re: LFR Exploit - Loot / Tier drop farming

Postby mavfin » Fri Dec 02, 2011 12:51 pm

Klaudandus wrote:The problem is that, apparently, this bug was known to the top guilds since the PTR but decided to keep quiet about it.


Sure, the programmers made an error. That's why there was a PTR. If this was known on the PTR, and no one reported it, so they could misuse it when it went live, then Blizzard put out the PTR in good faith, and was abused by the 'top guilds'.

Again, this is why I have little respect for a lot of the hardcore, because they'll do *anything* to get an advantage, and they don't care whether it's good or bad for the game. Only for themselves. All the while pointing fingers at Johnny Casual going "but he got the same epics I did!" Hard to take them seriously when they abuse bugs like this knowingly. Again, people like Mel on here I don't think would participate in such things, so I'll leave Mel and others out of this.

I find the mention of Paragon saying 'GG Blizz' to be rather hypocritical. They could have known, if people had told them. Even if it wasn't found on the PTR, telling them as soon as you find the bug is better than willfully abusing it.
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Re: LFR Exploit - Loot / Tier drop farming

Postby Klaudandus » Fri Dec 02, 2011 12:56 pm

mavfin wrote:Again, this is why I have little respect for a lot of the hardcore, because they'll do *anything* to get an advantage, and they don't care whether it's good or bad for the game. Only for themselves. All the while pointing fingers at Johnny Casual going "but he got the same epics I did!" Hard to take them seriously when they abuse bugs like this knowingly. Again, people like Mel on here I don't think would participate in such things, so I'll leave Mel and others out of this.


Someone said on mmo-champion

I guess "Hardcore" players like free epics just as much as "Casuals".


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Re: LFR Exploit - Loot / Tier drop farming

Postby Archeth » Fri Dec 02, 2011 1:11 pm

To be fair Blizzard not thinking of this is very stupid as well. I mean, you can't tell me that you never thought of "how could this auto-pass after your first loot-run restriction be circumvented/broken/fail", and raid leader shenanigans and the whole free trading mechanic for loot-eligible people should be the first thing you make airtight for the intended purpose of only giving people one run full of loot per week.

Sure in the end the people who used what's obviously an exploit have no one to blame but themselves and they have to live with the consequences (reputation damage and bans) but it's not their fault that was possible in the first place. No matter if they tested and withhold information, it's not like this is an arcane bug that fell through the cracks.
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Re: LFR Exploit - Loot / Tier drop farming

Postby Treck » Fri Dec 02, 2011 1:20 pm

Klaudandus wrote:But that's the thing, the testers, in this case the guilds, found out about it and withheld that information from blizz, at least that's the rumors.

I cant speak for the others, but we had 0 clue of this during ptr (and honestly i doubt it even worked there)
We noticed by pure accident after someone DCd and came back, and suddenly beeing able to pick up loot that was beeing wasted.


Klaudandus wrote:And should be noted that these are the same guilds that were crying foul regarding STARS faction/server changing.

This is completely unrelated.
Changing faction to gain a heroic reset was previously disabled before firelands (close to progress atleast)
For the sole reason of making people not abuse it. It just failed to patch on firelands for whatever reason.
LFR is a new tool, with new mechanics and new programming.
New stuff is not always working as intended, so people always find ways to work around how developers made stuff.

Klaudandus wrote:I'm just glad that Blood Legion seems not to be involved in this

Who?
Klaudandus wrote:but Paragon, Method, Vodka, For the Horde and Envy were indeed caught in this.

And why do you think this is?
Why would we hate on Stars who factionchanged, when people exploit LFR for gear?
The differance is, like i said before, its completely different topics.
First of all, IF blizzard would allow Faction changing to get more gear, and start the heroic reset a week earlier, you bet your arse on that the top guilds would do this.
This would obviously be very frustrating, not to mention expensive, and it would feel unfair to the guilds who are still interested in top kills, but doesnt wanna spend cash on factionchanging.
EVERYONE would loose on this agreement.

How is LFR different?
Its easy, everyone can do it, and when it reaches the point when everyone can do it, why wouldnt you?
If you do not, but everyone else does, is that their loss, or yours?
We did NOT do it to get an edge over the other guilds, we did it so the others wouldnt get an edge over us.
Say Paragon would be the only one who noticed this bugg, got everyone 5/5 t13 before heroicmodes start, and then would NOT get punished, then they have a substational lead over everyone else.
But if Paragon does it, and so does every other top guild, then eather ALL top guilds are punished for doing the same thing, or all guilds are in the same boat with the setbonuses.
This means, it does not hurt the race, like factionchanging does.
Heroics still start the same time for everyone (US lol), and even tho getting more gear isnt intended, its the same for everyone.
The real "race" is not ruined.

Nikachelle wrote:How exactly did they figure that they weren't going to get caught for this? Particularly something that gets displayed on your armory pretty prominently.

Problem is not only the top guilds did this, shitloads of other low end guilds did it (even random puggers did it who were lucky), and where would blizzard draw the line?
Would they go through EVERYONE who has entered LFR and look around, then were not gonna have any content for a year if they wanna go through everyone.
A 72hours ban, and remove the additional items? Sure go ahead, i honestly dont mind (sure ive wasted time, but so has everyone else)
As long as its equal for EVERYONE, i do not mind.

And if you think Paragon lost their gear, you've been trolled.
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Re: LFR Exploit - Loot / Tier drop farming

Postby Klaudandus » Fri Dec 02, 2011 1:29 pm

"Doing it because everyone else is" is a cop out.

I don't want a 72 hr ban, I want a 7 day ban for those that exploited the system, because blizz said the proper mechanic was that you were supposed to be eligible for loot once a week per boss, and people not only found a way around it, but actively and systematically abused it.

There is a difference between happening it once and seeing Paragon raiders with 4-pc bonuses already on them and with 20 LFR clears...

Nothing would make me happier now to see a guild that didn't do this to get world first.
Last edited by Klaudandus on Fri Dec 02, 2011 2:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: LFR Exploit - Loot / Tier drop farming

Postby Rhiannon » Fri Dec 02, 2011 1:31 pm

We heard about it a few days ago, but as a rule we don't do things like this. The meta-gamey aspect of hardcore raiding is actually quite tedious to a lot of us (spamming multiple alt runs, stacking the roster with legendaries, farming LFR with 20 alt/5 main raids, going up to 40+ raiding hours per week in progression are not really what we do in SlashCry, which is why we'll probably never break top 15, but we get fairly decent ranks nonetheless).

I can understand why, once this exploit was known, lots of other guilds decided to take advantage of it. Without knowing how Blizzard would react, they didn't want to take the risk that the gear would be let past and their competitors would have as many 4 part bonuses available to them as they needed (the tank 4 parts are encounter-changing, though I imagine for most dps they'd need at least 2 397 tier pieces to be worth using lfr gear). We've managed to get our prot warrior 4 part (using 1 lfr piece), but I've only seen three slots drop, so I imagine I'll try to get a fourth part from an LFR guild run next week, but this exploit removed that rng from it, so we're probably going to be at a fairly hefty disadvantage compared to guilds that did take advanrage of this if gear isn't removed.

What doesn't make sense to me though is if this was really known on PTR, why wasn't it reported? Honestly I'm just as inclined to believe it was reported and got lost somewhere along the line, if previous PTR/beta experience is anything to go by.

One thing I do see on these forums frequently is self-identified "casual players" making sweeping generalisations about "hardcore players", while I don't really see much of this "finger pointing at Johnny Casual" coming from players in top 100 (or even 1000) guilds posting here though.
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Re: LFR Exploit - Loot / Tier drop farming

Postby Klaudandus » Fri Dec 02, 2011 1:35 pm

Most of the people on these forums are really nice, including Treckie, I got nothing but respect for him. But this did take a wee bit of a shine off of his star, and not really his fault, but by association due to what his guild decided to do, and that is a shame.

But you do see other top 100 guild raiders on other forums blasting casual players... just because its not prevalent here, does not mean it doesn't happen.

This is just schadenfreude, really...
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Re: LFR Exploit - Loot / Tier drop farming

Postby Shoju » Fri Dec 02, 2011 1:42 pm

Sorry, I see this as the same thing as what STARS did.

They gamed the system to get an edge.
This was gaming the system to get an edge.

Same difference, only blizzard made cold hard cash off of STARS.

Like Klaud said. Doing it because everyone else did it is a very poor example, and goes back to something moms said to every child.

"If johnny jumped off the bridge, would you do it too?"

At some point, you need to just man up, and deal with the fact that somethings are unethical, and that you shouldn't do it, whether or not the system "allows" you to or not. Spare me the defense.


This wasn't directed specifically at anyone person, and isn't meant as an attack.
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Re: LFR Exploit - Loot / Tier drop farming

Postby Sabindeus » Fri Dec 02, 2011 1:45 pm

Treck wrote:Would they go through EVERYONE who has entered LFR and look around, then were not gonna have any content for a year if they wanna go through everyone.


They can go through everyone pretty quickly and easily.
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Re: LFR Exploit - Loot / Tier drop farming

Postby Teranoid » Fri Dec 02, 2011 1:53 pm

Treck wrote:
Klaudandus wrote:I'm just glad that Blood Legion seems not to be involved in this

Who?


I chuckled.
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Re: LFR Exploit - Loot / Tier drop farming

Postby Nikachelle » Fri Dec 02, 2011 1:56 pm

Teranoid wrote:
Treck wrote:
Klaudandus wrote:I'm just glad that Blood Legion seems not to be involved in this

Who?


I chuckled.

The only reason some of us may even know who Blood Legion is is that Brekkie was with them temporarily and they went against Vodka at the live raid during Blizzcon.
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