U.S. Internet Censorship bill (SOPA/PIPA)

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Re: U.S. Internet Censorship bill (SOPA/PIPA)

Postby Flex » Wed Jan 18, 2012 3:43 pm

I think taking websites offline in protest/education is dumb. Go to wikipedia, have to click the learn more link to go to the big page why they're doing it. After two FAQs about how awesome the internet is at protesting you get to the entry about SOPA and PIPA.

Compare that to arstechnica and how they are doing it.
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Re: U.S. Internet Censorship bill (SOPA/PIPA)

Postby Treck » Wed Jan 18, 2012 5:23 pm

Teranoid wrote:I love these sites "taking a stand" by CSS or javascript that can easily be sidestepped instead of shutting down their servers. Way to send a stern message to the government.

Like KysenMurrin said, its not to make you unable to use the sites they do it. Its to raise awareness.
Also, by taking them offline, they show how much people actually rely on the internet beeing the way it is, and might make a lot of people appose the acts/bills, as people might not thought it was such a big deal.
SOPA and PIPA are getting lots and lots of support from clueless people who think internet piracy is a bad thing, mainly from the entertainment industry.
They seem to forget a lot that the internet IS in many ways the entertainment industry, or at the very least a huge part of it.
While they are not saying they want to take the internet down completely, by censoring it they are in effect reducing it and honestly just shooting themselves in the foot.

And you prooved a very good point Teranoid.
People who actually do know how to pirate stuff properly, knows how to find the loopholes nomatter what they are going to try to do.
SOPA and PIPA are not going to stop piracy, might lower it by just making it harder to get into, but not impossible. And while just lowering the ammount of piracy might be their goal, they are going to do so many things a lot worse if these gets approved.
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Re: U.S. Internet Censorship bill (SOPA/PIPA)

Postby Passionario » Thu Jan 19, 2012 2:51 am

They could have at least put some sort of IP detection in place.

I understand why they would want to raise awareness of those who have the option to write to their congressman, but what is the rest of the world supposed to do? Firebomb the US embassy in protest?
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Re: U.S. Internet Censorship bill (SOPA/PIPA)

Postby Skye1013 » Thu Jan 19, 2012 3:13 am

Passionario wrote:They could have at least put some sort of IP detection in place.

I understand why they would want to raise awareness of those who have the option to write to their congressman, but what is the rest of the world supposed to do? Firebomb the US embassy in protest?

While that would make my job more interesting... I prefer dull. So please don't :|.

And at this point, Congress has to get at least 2/3 vote to push it through (since from what I'm hearing even Obama is against it... so will likely veto it.) If they have any desire to keep their seats in the upcoming elections... I'd hope they're smart enough to vote against it. As philosoraptor mentioned in the Random Picture Post, I'm sure people will start doing things like that to harass congress into repealing it (assuming it passes at all.) If not, then the Supreme Court will be setting a lot of precedents by allowing it on government sites.
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Re: U.S. Internet Censorship bill (SOPA/PIPA)

Postby Treck » Thu Jan 19, 2012 3:13 am

I still think its a good idea that the rest of the world becomes aware of it.
What the US does DOES impact the rest of the world by quite a lot (unfortunately)
IF this bill goes through, that means some countries are going to try to do the same themselves.
But if these acts are stomped on before they get any kind of real ground, other countries might see it as futile to even try (even tho few countries could even survive with an internet that excludes lots of out of country websites)
Also, if the EU think its a big deal what US decides to do, they will have to make sure it doesnt fuck up that much.
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Re: U.S. Internet Censorship bill (SOPA/PIPA)

Postby degre » Thu Jan 19, 2012 4:45 am

Treck wrote:I still think its a good idea that the rest of the world becomes aware of it.
What the US does DOES impact the rest of the world by quite a lot (unfortunately)
IF this bill goes through, that means some countries are going to try to do the same themselves.
But if these acts are stomped on before they get any kind of real ground, other countries might see it as futile to even try (even tho few countries could even survive with an internet that excludes lots of out of country websites)
Also, if the EU think its a big deal what US decides to do, they will have to make sure it doesnt fuck up that much.

It's not just that other countries might try the same, but this bill would affect the rest of the world big times, as it mentions somewhere that they would be able to request a block on payment processor, and doesn't matter if my site is hosted in Sweden, Gibraltar or Curaçao, if my payment processor is blocked, and they can block all my payments being that most means are from the US (Visa, Mastercard, Paypal), they could stop my business even if based abroad.

It would probably force the hand and help some non US based Paypal-ish company get the business, but in the while people could risk seeing their payment stopped for a whim of some Hollywood retard.
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Re: U.S. Internet Censorship bill (SOPA/PIPA)

Postby Firas » Thu Jan 19, 2012 2:00 pm

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/20/techn ... iracy.html

You can look forward to more of this if these laws pass.
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Re: U.S. Internet Censorship bill (SOPA/PIPA)

Postby Koatanga » Thu Jan 19, 2012 3:29 pm

Treck wrote:I still think its a good idea that the rest of the world becomes aware of it.
What the US does DOES impact the rest of the world by quite a lot (unfortunately)
IF this bill goes through, that means some countries are going to try to do the same themselves.
But if these acts are stomped on before they get any kind of real ground, other countries might see it as futile to even try (even tho few countries could even survive with an internet that excludes lots of out of country websites)
Also, if the EU think its a big deal what US decides to do, they will have to make sure it doesnt fuck up that much.

It is futile to try because unless every country in the world passes similar anti-piracy legislation, there will always be a place for pirates to operate.

And the more restrictive the rest of the countries are, the more money the open countries will make on hosting and IT services.

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There is no way to stop people from accessing what they want. SOPA is like releasing new raid content for hackers. Within a very short period of time, the workarounds will be in place.
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Re: U.S. Internet Censorship bill (SOPA/PIPA)

Postby sfrog » Thu Jan 19, 2012 5:00 pm

Firas wrote:http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/20/technology/indictment-charges-megaupload-site-with-piracy.html

You can look forward to more of this if these laws pass.



I would like to direct everyone's attention to This: http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news ... upload.ars

It was a two year, joint investigation, that spanned multiple countries - not just our own, and arrested people who profited off of illegal downloading. The people arrested? Owned vehicles like the 2010 Maserati, a classic Lambo. They had 103 inch TVs, artwork, property, things the average Joe Blow can only dream of today. A bit harder to feel sympathetic for them, I think. There is massive evidence that not only did the company know about the abuse, but did nothing to stop it - and in some cases, flat out ignored it. And let's be honest - it wasn't just the recording industry or even the movie industry involved. Software companies were involved in this as well, with copyrighted software being uploaded and shared.

Now I personally think the recording and movie industry is a bunch of money-grabbing, morons, who would love nothing more then to bleed us dry so that they can bath in gold and platinum and scrub their teeth with emeralds. But recently, I was forced to confront myself on this issue. I used to do some work for my father, who discovered his Emergency Management plans that he'd spent months laboring on, as part of a massive proposal for the state, was shared without his consent to a competitor who turned around and used those exact plans to get the contract, bumping him out of the running. Months of work, gone. He'll never see a dime for all the time and effort he put into those plans. As a small time business owner, that loss was felt dearly.

After all that...I honestly can't say that I feel bad for Megaupload, who were warned multiple times about the illegal activity going on. And I have made an effort to avoid downloading content that I know is pirated.
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Re: U.S. Internet Censorship bill (SOPA/PIPA)

Postby Passionario » Thu Jan 19, 2012 11:26 pm

Firas wrote:http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/20/technology/indictment-charges-megaupload-site-with-piracy.html

You can look forward to more of this if these laws pass.

Ouch. Now I'll have to tell my sister that the present I gave her for her birthday (a lifetime platinum Megaupload account) is now worthless. :(
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Re: U.S. Internet Censorship bill (SOPA/PIPA)

Postby tlitp » Fri Jan 20, 2012 7:58 am

Firas wrote:http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/20/technology/indictment-charges-megaupload-site-with-piracy.html

You can look forward to more of this if these laws pass.

Within hours of that shutdown, Anon went berserk. What goes around, comes around. :P
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Re: U.S. Internet Censorship bill (SOPA/PIPA)

Postby Sabindeus » Fri Jan 20, 2012 9:39 am

Teranoid wrote:I love these sites "taking a stand" by CSS or javascript that can easily be sidestepped instead of shutting down their servers. Way to send a stern message to the government.


What are you talking about, it's a brilliant message. It's just like the DNS takedown clauses in SOPA: easily circumventable.
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Re: U.S. Internet Censorship bill (SOPA/PIPA)

Postby Punkss2 » Fri Jan 20, 2012 9:55 pm

Thinking of starting WOW again....
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Re: U.S. Internet Censorship bill (SOPA/PIPA)

Postby Brekkie » Sat Jan 21, 2012 5:21 am

The two bills are pretty much Schiavo'd. They might not be officially dead yet, but it's close enough to make no difference, and they aren't coming back to life.







Too soon?
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Re: U.S. Internet Censorship bill (SOPA/PIPA)

Postby Fetzie » Sat Jan 21, 2012 7:42 am

Brekkie wrote:The two bills are pretty much Schiavo'd. They might not be officially dead yet, but it's close enough to make no difference, and they aren't coming back to life.







Too soon?


Doesn't mean they won't try again some time after the presidential elections when all the hubbub has died down.
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Re: U.S. Internet Censorship bill (SOPA/PIPA)

Postby Fridmarr » Sat Jan 21, 2012 9:58 am

I'm sure they will try again. It's not like attempting to curb stealing is a bad thing, just because it happens online. You just have to have a way to do it without screwing everyone else in the process.
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Re: U.S. Internet Censorship bill (SOPA/PIPA)

Postby Arnock » Sat Jan 21, 2012 3:48 pm

I think that, rather than spending all of this time and lobbying money trying to censor the internet, film companies at least should fight the pirates at their own game and offer streaming services like hulu, just stream the movies with ads for free, and have 'premium' services that remove adds, offer additional content, or HD streaming.
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Re: U.S. Internet Censorship bill (SOPA/PIPA)

Postby Skye1013 » Sat Jan 21, 2012 4:56 pm

That would make far too much sense...
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Re: U.S. Internet Censorship bill (SOPA/PIPA)

Postby Fridmarr » Sat Jan 21, 2012 10:03 pm

That works for currently ad supported content, ie. shows that are already available on cable that which most stations already supply for freemium on their site and sites like hulu.

However, that's a much harder model for things like software, movies, DVD (equivalents) etc.
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Re: U.S. Internet Censorship bill (SOPA/PIPA)

Postby Brekkie » Sun Jan 22, 2012 5:14 am

Arnock wrote:I think that, rather than spending all of this time and lobbying money trying to censor the internet, film companies at least should fight the pirates at their own game and offer streaming services like hulu, just stream the movies with ads for free, and have 'premium' services that remove adds, offer additional content, or HD streaming.


Personal anecdote.
When Game of Thrones aired, I was outside the US, and desperate to see the show. I tried everything, and I was willing to pay whatever money they wanted me to pay, be it for a subscription to HBO's online streaming, a fee just to view the episodes, whatever they wanted. I was desperate to give HBO my money.
But they wouldn't let me. There was literally not a single legitimate way they would allow me to give them my money in exchange for their product. I called HBO over the phone, I searched the internet for a solution, no joy.

Only after accepting defeat did I eventually give up and download the series illegally through a torrent. It was the first and only time I have ever illegally downloaded something from the internet.

While yes, pirating is a problem, just as big of a problem is that the Entertainment Industry is refusing to adapt to the way the market has changed in the past 10 years. You want to talk about lost revenue? Let's talk about the millions of people like me who aren't serial torrent-ers who get denied legitimate access to products in the format we want them because of archaic, byzantine business practices and thus get driven to the pirates.
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Re: U.S. Internet Censorship bill (SOPA/PIPA)

Postby Fridmarr » Sun Jan 22, 2012 10:44 am

Brekkie wrote:
Arnock wrote:I think that, rather than spending all of this time and lobbying money trying to censor the internet, film companies at least should fight the pirates at their own game and offer streaming services like hulu, just stream the movies with ads for free, and have 'premium' services that remove adds, offer additional content, or HD streaming.


Personal anecdote.
When Game of Thrones aired, I was outside the US, and desperate to see the show. I tried everything, and I was willing to pay whatever money they wanted me to pay, be it for a subscription to HBO's online streaming, a fee just to view the episodes, whatever they wanted. I was desperate to give HBO my money.
But they wouldn't let me. There was literally not a single legitimate way they would allow me to give them my money in exchange for their product. I called HBO over the phone, I searched the internet for a solution, no joy.

Only after accepting defeat did I eventually give up and download the series illegally through a torrent. It was the first and only time I have ever illegally downloaded something from the internet.

While yes, pirating is a problem, just as big of a problem is that the Entertainment Industry is refusing to adapt to the way the market has changed in the past 10 years. You want to talk about lost revenue? Let's talk about the millions of people like me who aren't serial torrent-ers who get denied legitimate access to products in the format we want them because of archaic, byzantine business practices and thus get driven to the pirates.

You're absolutely right. The way we consume that sort of media is amazingly outdated. There are all sorts of reasons, but we really need someone to step up and re-design this system. Apple was working on it, and are one of the few corporations that have the ability. Undoubtedly it would be a more closed solution than I would like, it would at least be progress that would eventually lead to open solutions.

Either way, the industry does have problems that contribute to the proliferation of piracy.
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Re: U.S. Internet Censorship bill (SOPA/PIPA)

Postby Brekkie » Sun Jan 22, 2012 11:48 am

I think they are resistant to digital formats because they miss the days when it was only hard copy record albums and DVDs, because that was more lucrative than what they think digital streaming will be if they fully adapt to it.
Ultimately, it's foolish though, because it's a battle they can never win. The technology will keep rolling onward.

And hard copies were over-valued anyway. They were deliberately designed to deteriorate after a certain number of views, which I think is the biggest BS ever.
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Re: U.S. Internet Censorship bill (SOPA/PIPA)

Postby Fridmarr » Sun Jan 22, 2012 12:02 pm

Brekkie wrote:I think they are resistant to digital formats because they miss the days when it was only hard copy record albums and DVDs, because that was more lucrative than what they think digital streaming will be if they fully adapt to it.
Ultimately, it's foolish though, because it's a battle they can never win. The technology will keep rolling onward.

And hard copies were over-valued anyway. They were deliberately designed to deteriorate after a certain number of views, which I think is the biggest BS ever.

It's a bit more complicated than that. For instance they've had huge issues with digital/streaming formats because of the way actors' salaries and royalties are structured. That's why when you used to listen to live sports events over streaming media, it would black out the commercials. Most of that has been dealt with, but the point is that there is just a whole lot of restructuring to be dealt with.

There are also a lot of entanglements already in place with hard copy media that can't just be stopped, and hard copy media can't just go away, not everyone has or wants broadband. There are a ton of moving parts, but I think these studios will make what they want to make either way, there's no reason for them to suddenly take in less over format issues. They just adjust price points, and the level of competition won't dramatically rise so as long as they can keep veiwers, they will be fine.
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Re: U.S. Internet Censorship bill (SOPA/PIPA)

Postby degre » Mon Jan 23, 2012 4:56 am

Brekkie wrote:Personal anecdote.
When Game of Thrones aired, I was outside the US, and desperate to see the show. I tried everything, and I was willing to pay whatever money they wanted me to pay, be it for a subscription to HBO's online streaming, a fee just to view the episodes, whatever they wanted. I was desperate to give HBO my money.
But they wouldn't let me. There was literally not a single legitimate way they would allow me to give them my money in exchange for their product. I called HBO over the phone, I searched the internet for a solution, no joy.

Only after accepting defeat did I eventually give up and download the series illegally through a torrent. It was the first and only time I have ever illegally downloaded something from the internet.

While yes, pirating is a problem, just as big of a problem is that the Entertainment Industry is refusing to adapt to the way the market has changed in the past 10 years. You want to talk about lost revenue? Let's talk about the millions of people like me who aren't serial torrent-ers who get denied legitimate access to products in the format we want them because of archaic, byzantine business practices and thus get driven to the pirates.

I'm a heavy torrent user, but is mostly due to the fact that I don't even own a TV and I watch everything on my machine, it gives the advantage that whenever I want I can turn on my machine, load a site, watch what I want. I love BBC because everything they show on TV they also show on their BBC iPlayer, in high definition. Most of the American stuff on the other hand I get it off torrent for the simple reason that I have no other way of watching it. If they sorted out some streaming site (at an honest price) to let me watch my favourite series online, I would be happy to pay.

And for the record, I was actually forced to crack a couple of original games due bad DRM as the original disc was not allowing me to run it. I am confident that a lot of people here had similar issue with faulty DRM.

Brekkie wrote:I think they are resistant to digital formats because they miss the days when it was only hard copy record albums and DVDs, because that was more lucrative than what they think digital streaming will be if they fully adapt to it.
Ultimately, it's foolish though, because it's a battle they can never win. The technology will keep rolling onward.

And hard copies were over-valued anyway. They were deliberately designed to deteriorate after a certain number of views, which I think is the biggest BS ever.

Funny.

Just a few weeks ago I wanted to look into getting some digital music, I live in a small place and getting more junk in is not the best idea, so I wanted to avoid getting more hard copies; I looked into a few digital media like iTunes, Apple could burn in hell for all I care, I ended up getting my CDs off Amazon as it costs me less to order a copy there and have it shipped. If I want to save space I'll rip my own CD and throw it away, but I'm not spending a good 20/30% more to get a bare digital copy.
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Re: U.S. Internet Censorship bill (SOPA/PIPA)

Postby Flex » Mon Jan 23, 2012 8:51 am

HBO Go is odd, it is almost perfect in what a modern entertainment company should deliver except for that "you must subscribe via a cable outlet" thing. Cable companies currently hold a lot of sway in this market unfortunately.
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