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Dev Watercooler - The Great Item Squish (or Not) of Pandaria

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Re: Dev Watercooler - The Great Item Squish (or Not) of Pand

Postby Flex » Wed Nov 09, 2011 9:43 pm

Where'd you get those level 85 health numbers? Level 85 non-elite mobs range from 68K-85K.
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Re: Dev Watercooler - The Great Item Squish (or Not) of Pand

Postby Passionario » Wed Nov 09, 2011 10:58 pm

Koatanga wrote:I think they have a growth rate that would last them through the WoW life cycle, which probably only has a couple more expansions left in it, at best.

I bet that's what the BC team thought, too, which is why we ended up with this problem in the first place.
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Re: Dev Watercooler - The Great Item Squish (or Not) of Pand

Postby Dantriges » Thu Nov 10, 2011 5:07 am

The BC design team probably had his hands full, designing the first Xpac. Their team had no practical experience in designing an expansion an quit a few issues they wanted to tackle. I assume they tought of this as a theoretical problem they had no time to look into, now. Or they didn´t realize it at this date. Perhaps a few players and designers thought, huh, these are big numbers compared to classic but that was the extent of it.

IIRC GC said no problem, we balance it for the new numbers, when someone concerned about it asked him, if the big numbers would create problemes.

Now we have:
Knowing that reality, we are exploring to find ways to mitigate the impact of very large numbers on the game, including the item squish as one option.
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Re: Dev Watercooler - The Great Item Squish (or Not) of Pand

Postby Hrobertgar » Thu Nov 10, 2011 1:37 pm

I think a chunk of this is Cata's fault rather than BC. Towards the end of Wrath, to get ready for Cata, we all got a big health boost along with the new talent trees. Prior to that health boost, tank health had roughly doubled each expac.

Vanilla Tank ~ 6k+
BC Tank ~ 12k - 16k
Wrath Tank ~ 24k - 50k
Cata Tank ~ 120K - 170k

I mean as a healer, the drop with the new talents raised my health from like 35k to like 50k in ICC. Also, dps health used to be like 1/2 tank health, now dps health is like 2/3 tank health.

I am definitely in favor of the great squish. I am also not overly worried about fine tuning older content. Most ppl spend short amounts of time in the older content while leveling as it is, and not too many ppl are going to complain if they are a tad OP vs dungeon/environment. I also think that they have little choice but to make it this easy to level up, very few people would start new toons/alts, if it took six months for a noob to level to max level or 15 days played to level an alt.

If they nerf all content through Cata by enough it should buy them MoP plus one more expansion, which is probably plenty given the age of the game.
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Re: Dev Watercooler - The Great Item Squish (or Not) of Pand

Postby Flex » Thu Nov 10, 2011 1:39 pm

at level 85 1 stamina grants 14 health vs the 1:10 previously. So it is slightly unfair to judge health levels because of that.
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Re: Dev Watercooler - The Great Item Squish (or Not) of Pand

Postby Koatanga » Thu Nov 10, 2011 1:56 pm

I think the point is that the numbers really exploded with Cataclysm.

I reckon it has a lot to do with the healing model. They wanted healers to show an increase in power from Wrath, but they also didn't want the Wrath model of 3-shot tank deaths. Take the healing from LK, multiply it by the increase of power, then increase the number of that-sized-hits a tank can handle before death, and suddenly you have tanks with comparatively massive health pools. Just as an example, take a healer casting 20k heals increasing to 30k in Cata, and increase the shots-to-death from 3 to 6, and you have tanks with 180k health to support the healing model.
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Re: Dev Watercooler - The Great Item Squish (or Not) of Pand

Postby Klaudandus » Thu Nov 10, 2011 2:01 pm

Koatanga wrote:I think the point is that the numbers really exploded with Cataclysm.

I reckon it has a lot to do with the healing model. They wanted healers to show an increase in power from Wrath, but they also didn't want the Wrath model of 3-shot tank deaths. Take the healing from LK, multiply it by the increase of power, then increase the number of that-sized-hits a tank can handle before death, and suddenly you have tanks with comparatively massive health pools. Just as an example, take a healer casting 20k heals increasing to 30k in Cata, and increase the shots-to-death from 3 to 6, and you have tanks with 180k health to support the healing model.


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Re: Dev Watercooler - The Great Item Squish (or Not) of Pand

Postby fuzzygeek » Thu Nov 10, 2011 2:35 pm

Koatanga wrote:Take out that bump, and I think they have a growth rate that would last them through the WoW life cycle, which probably only has a couple more expansions left in it, at best.


Citation required, please.
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Re: Dev Watercooler - The Great Item Squish (or Not) of Pand

Postby rodos » Thu Nov 10, 2011 4:39 pm

fuzzygeek wrote:
Koatanga wrote:Take out that bump, and I think they have a growth rate that would last them through the WoW life cycle, which probably only has a couple more expansions left in it, at best.


Citation required, please.

Probably referring to one of the leaked memos. Either the one listing out the zones for each xpack (which I believe was later admitted as fake by the author) or the roadmap showing the release of D3, Titan, WoW Brazil, and the WoW xpacks, which has so far proven to be fairly accurate. The roadmap shows WoW X4 2012Q2, then WoW X5 released in 2013Q4 along with Titan. There's no more WoW xpacks on the list after that.

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Also, while search for leak info, found this. Wow. Why did I not hear about that leak when it happened?
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Re: Dev Watercooler - The Great Item Squish (or Not) of Pand

Postby Zobel » Thu Nov 10, 2011 8:11 pm

rodos wrote:Also, while search for leak info, found this. Wow. Why did I not hear about that leak when it happened?

Because that leak probably "happened" retroactively.

See, e.g. "This URL has been excluded from the Wayback Machine."
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Re: Dev Watercooler - The Great Item Squish (or Not) of Pand

Postby Passionario » Fri Nov 11, 2011 12:04 am

rodos wrote:There's no more WoW xpacks on the list after that.

Or, indeed, anything else.

In 2015, after releasing the second expansion pack for Diablo 3, Blizzard is going to close shop and fly back home to the stars.
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Re: Dev Watercooler - The Great Item Squish (or Not) of Pand

Postby Sagara » Fri Nov 11, 2011 1:46 am

Passionario wrote:
rodos wrote:There's no more WoW xpacks on the list after that.

Or, indeed, anything else.

In 2015, after releasing the second expansion pack for Diablo 3, Blizzard is going to close shop and fly back home to the stars.


Are you saying that Blizzard DO NOT have a precise, detailled plan of ALL their activities for the coming CENTURY?
What is the management thinking! We should fire them, one and all!

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Re: Dev Watercooler - The Great Item Squish (or Not) of Pand

Postby Dantriges » Fri Nov 11, 2011 4:03 am

Ah no, the plans for the whole century are classified as Illuminati/Alien allies level only.

The memo just tells the slaves in management what to do next.
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Re: Dev Watercooler - The Great Item Squish (or Not) of Pand

Postby Chicken » Fri Nov 11, 2011 4:42 am

I'm also still not seeing the first expansion of Starcraft II or a Starcraft II Phoenix (Whatever that is!) anywhere yet. Or Diablo 3 for that matter. ... Did they even add a map market to Starcraft II? As far as I can tell the only part of that "product slate" that was accurate was WoW Brazil. Anything earlier than that can be largely ignored since that was all confirmed already by the time that image first started circling the 'net.

Zobel wrote:
rodos wrote:Also, while search for leak info, found this. Wow. Why did I not hear about that leak when it happened?

Because that leak probably "happened" retroactively.

See, e.g. "This URL has been excluded from the Wayback Machine."
That one is funny anyway, you can look at the comment dates as well to see the backdating. The news before and after his "leak" all had comments on the day they were posted, but his "leak" somehow didn't get any comments until August 2011. What a coincidence! The image itself didn't start circling until after the first day of BlizzCon as well... And even gets a number of things wrong. :lol:
Last edited by Chicken on Fri Nov 11, 2011 4:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Dev Watercooler - The Great Item Squish (or Not) of Pand

Postby fuzzygeek » Fri Nov 11, 2011 9:29 am

Passionario wrote:In 2015, after releasing the second expansion pack for Diablo 3, Blizzard is going to close shop and fly back home to the stars.


Passionario always makes me happy.
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