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Raid CD reset - 2x a week on TW/KR realms

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Re: Raid CD reset - 2x a week on TW/KR realms

Postby Dantriges » Wed Oct 26, 2011 2:01 pm

It will result in some guild drama in larger guild where you probably have different opinions.
Progress-More loot: Farm so tha the rest gets geared fast and doesn´t hold us back.
Progress-More bosses: Skip the reset
Laid back: I don´t want to raid twice a week
Greedy: more raid more loot.

IMO the less options you have with what kind of raid you do besides choosing a different instance on the same level perhaps, the less drama, less headache for the lead.
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Re: Raid CD reset - 2x a week on TW/KR realms

Postby mavfin » Wed Oct 26, 2011 2:01 pm

Basically, the naysayers here are the people that progression vs other guilds matters for. Top 'X' guilds, basically. That's an incredibly narrow slice of the playerbase as a whole. Sorry, the game should not (and I doubt it will ever be again) be built around what the top 'X' guilds want. This is incredibly helpful for the more casual raiders, as Shoju pointed out. Sorry, the 1% should not dictate to the rest what is right.

Options are good. If you say it's not an option to not take advantage of said option in your strata of raiding, too bad. You're the one who picked what strata of raiding you're in.
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Re: Raid CD reset - 2x a week on TW/KR realms

Postby Skye1013 » Wed Oct 26, 2011 2:06 pm

Personally... unless the reset is between Friday and Saturday (US)... this change won't mean anything to me. Since most of my guild isn't able to raid outside of the weekends due to me being in Germany, Lev being in Australia, and work/school conflicts amongst the rest. We have enough trouble getting everyone there on Sat nights to work on Rag...

I'm also in the camp of thinking that this won't affect progression content, only "old" content. Though we'll see what happens when they announce more (assuming it ever sees the light of day in US/EU.)
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Re: Raid CD reset - 2x a week on TW/KR realms

Postby Skye1013 » Wed Oct 26, 2011 2:11 pm

Dantriges wrote:It will result in some guild drama in larger guild where you probably have different opinions.
Progress-More loot: Farm so tha the rest gets geared fast and doesn´t hold us back.
Progress-More bosses: Skip the reset
Laid back: I don´t want to raid twice a week
Greedy: more raid more loot.

IMO the less options you have with what kind of raid you do besides choosing a different instance on the same level perhaps, the less drama, less headache for the lead.

Which will cause people to split off, increasing the number looking for guilds! For those people having trouble filling their raid roster already, after they determine which method they plan to use, they can recruit based on that, and those people that left guilds because they didn't raid the same way, will suddenly migrate towards them (assuming the current LFGuild criteria matches as well.)

So guilds will get reshuffled/redealt... is that necessarily a bad thing?
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Re: Raid CD reset - 2x a week on TW/KR realms

Postby Meloree » Wed Oct 26, 2011 2:17 pm

mavfin wrote:How much have we heard that the 10/25 shared lockout was 'horrible' because the hardcores couldn't raid as much? Now they get to raid twice as much, and they're not happy? I guess my friend was right. Some people can't be satisfied, and bash every decision from Blizzard.


Err, not all that often. There was a fair bit of complaining about 10s being made equal to 25s, but not much about not having to deal with doing 10s anymore. People who want to raid more just raid on alts when they clear content. They're already doing it.

This change, if implemented on progression content, would force schedule alterations from a lot of guilds - and I'm frankly not sure what need it addresses that LFR doesn't already take care of. And, of course, the downside for those hardcore guilds is having to farm the content twice as often. It's nice to raid for 3 hours a week for a little while in between tiers. It's a break. I don't really want my break time reduced - but clearly if the raids reset twice a week, then I will.

Further, the long term implication in raid lockouts being half as long is that the content will become easier, in order to give people legitimate progression time. I most definitely do not like the sound of that. Not if we already have LFR's "Easy Mode".
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Re: Raid CD reset - 2x a week on TW/KR realms

Postby Skye1013 » Wed Oct 26, 2011 2:20 pm

Why would your break time get reduced between tiers?
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Re: Raid CD reset - 2x a week on TW/KR realms

Postby Rokh » Wed Oct 26, 2011 2:21 pm

Just because people are not "top guilds" doesnt mean that all raid guilds are trying to do their best.

Saying this change is detramintal to only about 1% of wow is foolish.
There is a reason elixirs were limited to 2. Grinding herbs 10 hours a week to have 6+ elixirs on for raids was retarded and stressfull.

There is a reason the potion timer was added, and it has nothing to do with balancing player DPS/mana regen. Grinding 200+ potions a week was retarded and stressfull.

There is a reason lockouts are now shared.
doing the same raid 4 times a week so you could get as many tokens as possible was retarded and stressfull.

All raid guilds will suffer if this goes live and if you dont understand why its not really worth explaining.
Last edited by Rokh on Wed Oct 26, 2011 2:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Raid CD reset - 2x a week on TW/KR realms

Postby Ocin » Wed Oct 26, 2011 2:22 pm

Shoju wrote:It wont push you to 4 nights. It wont force you to 4 nights. You will push it, because you think you have to so that you can stay competitive. There is a difference.

Our guild, while being completely and totally "casual" by your definition is the #6 horde side guild on the server. Sure, that's not "huge" or anything, but considering the way we raid, I would say that's pretty good.


I don't know if I'd be bragging about your progress to be honest. God bless you, but I'm pretty fucking embarrassed to be ranked 11th overall (horde and alliance) on my server, and this change will just widen the gap and stress my guild out more if we don't adjust to a 2xs a week lock out.
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Re: Raid CD reset - 2x a week on TW/KR realms

Postby mavfin » Wed Oct 26, 2011 2:25 pm

Rokh wrote:All raid guilds will suffer if this goes live and if you dont understand why its not really worth explaining.


And if you don't understand that 'capability' does not equate to 'mandatory' then there's no need for me to explain further. It's your (and your guild's) CHOICE to raid twice as much if/when this is implemented. The game's not forcing you to do anything. And it's definitely not a reason to not put it in the game because you feel you 'have to' do something that no one's forcing on you.
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Re: Raid CD reset - 2x a week on TW/KR realms

Postby Fridmarr » Wed Oct 26, 2011 2:28 pm

Rokh wrote:Just because people are not "top guilds" doesnt mean that all raid guilds are trying to do their best.

Saying this change is detramintal to only about 1% of wow is foolish.
There is a reason elixirs were limited to 2. Grinding herbs 10 hours a week to have 6+ elixirs on for raids was retarded and stressfull.

There is a reason lockouts are now shared.
doing the same raid 4 times a week so you could get as many tokens as possible was retarded and stressfull.

All raid guilds will suffer if this goes live and if you dont understand why its not really worth explaining.

Well gee two can play this game...If you don't understand the difference between the reason elixirs were limited to two versus having another option for controlling your content experience, then it's not really worth explaining...

Seriously though, if you have something to add to the discussion then please do so. If you are just going to say that everyone who disagrees with you is too stupid to understand your point of view, then don't bother posting.
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Re: Raid CD reset - 2x a week on TW/KR realms

Postby Meloree » Wed Oct 26, 2011 2:32 pm

Skye1013 wrote:Why would your break time get reduced between tiers?


Because instead of logging on on Tuesday, raiding for a couple of hours, and calling it a week during mid-tier breaks, instead I'll be logging on on Tuesday and Sunday to gear up the offspecs and harvest the mount/legendary/other unique item that we just can't miss a lockout of. In other words, it takes away one of the reasons I survive "hardcore" raiding - time off. I expect that's true of a fair number of 3/4/5 night guilds in the top 500 or so.
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Re: Raid CD reset - 2x a week on TW/KR realms

Postby Fridmarr » Wed Oct 26, 2011 2:42 pm

Meloree wrote:
Skye1013 wrote:Why would your break time get reduced between tiers?


Because instead of logging on on Tuesday, raiding for a couple of hours, and calling it a week during mid-tier breaks, instead I'll be logging on on Tuesday and Sunday to gear up the offspecs and harvest the mount/legendary/other unique item that we just can't miss a lockout of. In other words, it takes away one of the reasons I survive "hardcore" raiding - time off. I expect that's true of a fair number of 3/4/5 night guilds in the top 500 or so.


I'd think that the new lockout schedule would allow you to reach the time to start your "time off" period sooner. If even after you've cleared content you still feel compelled to log in twice as often as you do now, it's pretty hard to blame the lockout system for that.

Certainly, guilds will have to adjust (as you mentioned earlier) as scheduling is very important for guilds and is tightly integrated into the lockout system. That doesn't mean that when everything shakes out that things will be worse for everyone. Certainly, some people will be negatively affected but for a lot of folks they gain more control over their content.

Do you currently raid 7 days a week when there are still bosses alive in new content?
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Re: Raid CD reset - 2x a week on TW/KR realms

Postby Meloree » Wed Oct 26, 2011 2:53 pm

Fridmarr wrote:I'd think that the new lockout schedule would allow you to reach the time to start your "time off" period sooner. If even after you've cleared content you still feel compelled to log in twice as often as you do now, it's pretty hard to blame the lockout system for that.

Certainly, guilds will have to adjust (as you mentioned earlier) as scheduling is very important for guilds and is tightly integrated into the lockout system. That doesn't mean that when everything shakes out that things will be worse for everyone. Certainly, some people will be negatively affected but for a lot of folks they gain more control over their content.

Do you currently raid 7 days a week when there are still bosses alive in new content?


To answer the question first: Hell no. 4 nights. And we won't raid more with the system, we'll just end up farming more. But nobody actually *likes* farming. It won't even mean that I "log in" twice as often as I do during break now. It'll mean that an extra amount of my playstyle becomes subscribed to raiding during what I'm used to being downtime.

Turnabout is fair play, though so let me ask this: Given the implementation of LFR for the next patch, who actually stands to gain enjoyment from twice-weekly raid resets, and what is that gain? Increased control over content isn't very clear to me, could you explain what you mean?

I mean, if there is a real benefit to this system that LFR doesn't already address, then fair enough. I still won't like it at all, but at least it'll make some sense to me.
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Re: Raid CD reset - 2x a week on TW/KR realms

Postby Fridmarr » Wed Oct 26, 2011 3:01 pm

Sure here's a couple of examples... I was in a casual guild and there were tons of times where if we could have reset an instance we would have. Things like being up against a brick wall of a boss that you are clearly not ready for. Instead of being demoralized for a few days (and watching your attendance drop quickly) being able to reset and improve our gear would have been great.

Having a subpar group is another issue, one thing casual guilds struggle with is attendance, and sometimes you are bringing along people who don't have the skill you need. When you have the ability to reset early you can either choose to do some (typically) easier bosses or content that keeps people a little more interested because of awards to time ratio, to mitigate some of the attendance issues in the first place.

I guess my response to your answer then would be, if you aren't feeling compelled enough to increase your raid time now, then I'm guessing your guild values that amount of time out of wow/raiding over the competition. Do you expect that to change?
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Re: Raid CD reset - 2x a week on TW/KR realms

Postby Meloree » Wed Oct 26, 2011 3:11 pm

Fridmarr wrote:I guess my response to your answer then would be, if you aren't feeling compelled enough to increase your raid time now, then I'm guessing your guild values that amount of time out of wow/raiding over the competition. Do you expect that to change?


I suppose that depends a lot on what the content is like when it's designed around an 3 day lockout instead of 7 days. Farm in a long and difficult instance takes a lot of time - time that one would want to spend on progression. On the other hand, gear helps make bosses easier, so you don't want to give that up, either. It means we either give up a day of progression, or a reset worth of gear - or add a raid day and just consume the content that much faster.

If that means Blizzard releases instances more often, then great - but every time they've said they were going to do that, they failed to deliver. Cataclysm has less bosses than either TBC or WotLK - even if you don't count Naxx in the equation at all for WotLK. If it just means clearing it faster with longer break times (but less of an actual "break" on break time), I think it just contributes to burnout and boredom in a guild like mine. A month or two off is just about perfect. I don't ever actually want another 8 month "break" on content.
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