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New talents MoP - tier 3

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Re: New talents MoP - tier 3

Postby Rhidach » Mon Oct 24, 2011 8:45 am

Dantriges wrote:And friendly target with Holy Shield includes yourself.


Word of Glory has the same wording ("friendly target"), so it's probably safe to assume this Holy Shield could be self-cast.
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Re: New talents MoP - tier 3

Postby fuzzygeek » Mon Oct 24, 2011 8:58 am

culhag wrote:
Meloree wrote:Holy Avenger = 6 WoG/Holy Shield in a row while under GAnK. 10 seconds of near invincibility sounds pretty cool to me.

That's if there's no CD on WOG...


Exactly. I'm assuming it will still have a 20 sec CD. Otherwise, yes, nobrainer.

Also yes I shouldn't try to do math after midnight, especially after getting 4 hours a sleep a night since a third of the guild has been at my house all weekend. Assuming GAnK doesn't consume a GCD we'll actually get 7 casts (I don't know where 3 came from), so there's that too.

I don't know what the CD will be on WoG or HS (currently 20s and 30s, respectively, although I suspect HS may get reworked since they're changing it. Again). Which is why Holy Avenger is on the bubble. I also don't know if they're going to do something with judgement; the tying of Judgement into Sanctified Wrath and the T13 bonuses suggests they might be looking at that, or they're just linking it to "iconic" abilities.

If we do get some kind of damage shield per judgement then SW might make more sense, depending on the size of the shield -- 7 GCDs of shield+DPS on boss vs spamming an absorb on oneself? Will need more numbers and actual fight mechanics to determine what makes sense...
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Re: New talents MoP - tier 3

Postby KysenMurrin » Mon Oct 24, 2011 9:14 am

Holy Shield has no cooldown on the previewed talents. I fully expect it to be self castable because they want the spells to all appeal to Prot.

I do wonder what this means for ShoR, because tanks aren't gonna use it much with a spammable Holy Shield, just like they didn't use it when WoG was spammable.
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Re: New talents MoP - tier 3

Postby Alantor » Mon Oct 24, 2011 11:45 am

It would be great if the new HS stakcs itself :P
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Re: New talents MoP - tier 3

Postby Kelaan » Mon Oct 24, 2011 12:09 pm

Worldie wrote:The ability to self-cleanse snares look very powerful to me compared to resetting the cd on hands: how many times you really needed to use 2 hands in a row?

Agreed. Forbearance (unless they remove it) means I won't be able to double-HoP the same target, so its use seems most useful for PvP ... but frankly cleansable snares and jugdgement-sprint make me REALLY happy, for both PvE and PvP. Combine that with Windwalk, and we might be very mobile.

Granted, dungeons don't snare us a whole lot, so maybe it's less of an issue.
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Re: New talents MoP - tier 3

Postby fuzzygeek » Mon Oct 24, 2011 12:33 pm

For hands, right now it might be interesting to HoSac both Torment Tanks. Something along those lines as an external CD might be interesting. If snares are actually important, then AoS becomes a no-brainer.

For movement: 1m cd on 60% vs 45% on a judgement (ICD?), vs 10%/HP. I'm likely to swap between SoL and LAotL depending on the context. 60% on a 1m CD seems really very nice.

I doubt shields will stack, and I'll be very, very surprised if they're spammable.

Ah well. No sense getting excited about this now, honestly.

I'm a little surprised Blizzcon was so 5.0 heavy. T13 seems like an afterthought at this point: "who gives a fuck about Derpwing? Giev new mechanics plx."
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Re: New talents MoP - tier 3

Postby Kelaan » Mon Oct 24, 2011 1:45 pm

fuzzygeek wrote:For movement: 1m cd on 60% vs 45% on a judgement (ICD?), vs 10%/HP. I'm likely to swap between SoL and LAotL depending on the context. 60% on a 1m CD seems really very nice.

I'm not sure I like the 1min CD version; of course it's fight-specific,but in general I expect I'm likely to enjoy having a sprint 40% of the time, or a 30% speed boost anytime I just idle on holy power. Stage transitions, boss movement, etc all seem like they'd really benefit from the holy power related one, but of course mileage varies by the user and the fight. :D I REALLY like that all three look tempting, though. Almost none of those things look like a sucker bet.
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Re: New talents MoP - tier 3

Postby fuzzygeek » Mon Oct 24, 2011 3:35 pm

I'm just not certain I like the design of something that requires you to let something else sit idle. Like (in current content) I can see how having that idle HP on a Rag transition is nice because you can get into position and have a SHoR ready to go, but I'd hate to not use HP abilities because I'm sitting on them waiting to move, thus "wasting" the next few CS strikes as well.

That being said, difficult choices are neat, even if I don't think they hit the mark every single tier.
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Re: New talents MoP - tier 3

Postby Kelaan » Mon Oct 24, 2011 4:20 pm

To be fair, you rarely need the haste All The Time, but we can often prepare for it. Having an effectively 10 second cooldown on 30% haste seems ... well, it seems so OP that I am expecting that to be nerfed hard. I mean, after the first 15 seconds of the fight, threat should be almost a non-issue (esp w/ 4.3 vengeance changes). Any time we feel the need for haste (Valiona phase transitions, etc), we can build up the holy power. We are likely saving it for the emergency WoG anyways, so this is like icing on the cake.

We can (when lucky) build 3 HP in three GCDs, as can Holy. This could be up quite a bit.

I agree that normally it wouldn't work, and I like the idea of always-on speed boosts (like the current PoJ), but I think their intention is to give us more dynamic control over when it's up than simply having a cooldown to press. Normally we (or Ret, or Holy) would use our HP as needed, but in a clutch we could save it.

Granted, with the healing of allies, and faster movement speed, speed of light is probably more valuable MOST of the time. (Getting out of fire? Why not heal people that are hit by it, too?) I guess I like that more than I previously did.
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Re: New talents MoP - tier 3

Postby fuzzygeek » Mon Oct 24, 2011 5:18 pm

Yeah, whenever we start moving as a raid, I'll either pop a CD if I'm tanking Rag during the Seed spawn, or I'll HoSac the other tank if he's currently in the hot seat. Some healing of random people around would also be helpful at that point, but I suspect the amount of healing done by Prot will be trivial (I've taken Holy Radiance out of my DG macro after looking at the pitiful amount it's been healing).

I'm leaning more towards LAotL if there's not a significant ICD associated. Lavawalker is 8% movement increase (vs current 15% PoJ), which makes me a little sad, but 45% for 4 sec/8sec CD on judgement probably wouldn't feel horrible either. The constraint is requiring something around to Judge. Clearly more dig rat shenanigans are in order.
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Re: New talents MoP - tier 3

Postby Jaitee » Tue Oct 25, 2011 5:00 am

i am seeing some cool interaction for instance
assuming they remove the CD from WoG for their active mitigation model then http://www.wowhead.com/mists-of-pandari ... ulator#lEm
would probably be the highest self mitigation build available you would be getting a ton of HoPo and you would be able to WoG alot if WoG retains its CD shift that point from eternal glory into holy shield

another spec would be one with long arm of the law and sanctified wrath which would allow you on a 2 minute CD to get a 24ish second 45% sprint (assuming AW still lasts 20 seconds and has a 2 minute CD)

sacred shield + holy shield + holy avenger would make for godmode against something like maloriak black phase where you have to tank a ton of damage but cant be healed or even if you can be healed there is a chance you wont be healed fast enough
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Re: New talents MoP - tier 3

Postby Jaitee » Tue Oct 25, 2011 5:11 am

Kelaan wrote:
fuzzygeek wrote:For movement: 1m cd on 60% vs 45% on a judgement (ICD?), vs 10%/HP. I'm likely to swap between SoL and LAotL depending on the context. 60% on a 1m CD seems really very nice.

I'm not sure I like the 1min CD version; of course it's fight-specific,but in general I expect I'm likely to enjoy having a sprint 40% of the time, or a 30% speed boost anytime I just idle on holy power. Stage transitions, boss movement, etc all seem like they'd really benefit from the holy power related one, but of course mileage varies by the user and the fight. :D I REALLY like that all three look tempting, though. Almost none of those things look like a sucker bet.


i think it will be like this
speed of light for fight where you need to sprint very occasionally for instance beth'tilac running to your web to get up top faster
long arm of the law for fights where you are constantly running around attacking things for instance running around on ryolith picking up adds
pursuit of justice for fights where you will need to run for an extended period of time without attacking for instance atramedes kiting the flame during air phase or heigan (i think thats his name) for when you are dancing and cant attack

PoJ would also be bad in situations where you need your hopo for survivability though this depends on if we need hopo for our active mitigation
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Re: New talents MoP - tier 3

Postby KysenMurrin » Tue Oct 25, 2011 7:47 am

So what's throwing me on the run speed decision now is that I'll probably be running random BGs a lot. If I was in a capture the flag BG, I think I'd want Speed of Light. In most others, I'd want Long Arm. But I'd have to pick one and just hope it works out when it's random. Not sure which is the better bet overall.

I guess if I get into rated PvP I'll know which BGs are on the weekly cycle and be able to tailor my build, but for random it's a coin toss.

And yes, I know I'm getting way ahead of myself thinking seriously about these things now, when it won't be relevant for at least 9 months.
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Re: New talents MoP - tier 3

Postby Skye1013 » Tue Oct 25, 2011 7:54 am

Depends on how "on the fly" you can "spec"... if it's like glyphs and you just need a reagent to change it whenever... then you should be able to select what you need upon entering a BG during the 2 min wait time.
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Re: New talents MoP - tier 3

Postby KysenMurrin » Tue Oct 25, 2011 7:57 am

I don't think it tells you which BG you've been picked for when you're on random (it's been a while, my current PvP toon isn't 45 yet), and you can't apply things like glyphs once inside.
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