New talents MoP - tier 3

Anything, including off-topic posts

Moderators: Fridmarr, Worldie, Aergis, Sabindeus, PsiVen

Re: New talents MoP - tier 3

Postby Dantriges » Sun Oct 23, 2011 7:57 pm

I hope they introduce a few more talents. When I leveled, I liked it that new abilities were showing up every level at the beginning. With the new system, we have quite a few empty levels.

And well, the system feels a bit too much like utility. We have perhaps one or two interesting choices the rest is more or less set or of no consequence.

Most of it feels like a Glyph. A few are prime glyphs, most are major. Some of it for other classes are actual glyphs.

For my feeling it´s too much "Nice to have" not really a choice. Some stuff, perhaps. Quite a lot of it sounds a lot more like built for PvP if I look through the Talent Calculator for all classes. Quite a lot of it is movement, movement impediment, control in all its shapes and Counter CC. Well could be that this stuff is huge in the new Xpac but somehow I doubt it would work. They tried to make CC meaningful again since the beginning of Wrath without much success.

Doesn´t excite me too much. Needs work in my opinion but interesting for a first preview. Don´t like the empty levels it implies. They could actually erase quite a few levels.
Last edited by Dantriges on Sun Oct 23, 2011 8:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Dantriges
 
Posts: 1252
Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2008 12:39 am

Re: New talents MoP - tier 3

Postby Levantine » Sun Oct 23, 2011 8:23 pm

I think you just hit the nail on the head as the reason I'm not so keen. It's a good idea, and some of the choices are actually good (see: Blood Tap vs Runic Empowerment vs Runic Corruption and the Grimoire level for Warlocks) but mostly it seems like the talents are focussed on PvP. I'm not saying that that's inherently bad, but I'm a PvE player with no interest in PvP and it's not something that's going to make me go "Ohh neat, that's a good change".
User avatar
Levantine
 
Posts: 10818
Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2007 6:48 pm
Location: NQ, Aus

Re: New talents MoP - tier 3

Postby Dantriges » Sun Oct 23, 2011 9:15 pm

Yeah looking over it it seems at first glance (too tired for a thorough examination) to be a collection of stuff that would be really a nice collection for solo and PvP with some usefulness for other things.

It looks a lot like they wanted to prevent cookie cutter stuff. Well in this state some choices are probably cookie cutter with one talent the best all purpose one. And some are filled with stuff that is more or less a minor choice. I thought we were supposed to make meaningful choices. Some of them are but my feeling is they are in the minority for PvE purposes.

I don´t know if Blessed life is huge in PvP but it doesn´t sound like an important talent in the tree.

Stuff like the stuff in level 75. they are all handy and sometimes I wished that I had a hand ready or it would get ready faster but well, it´s nice to have, but it doesn´t feel like an important higher tier talent choice for the protection role.

I mean choice like "Make DP more powerful(against magic or physical if both would be too strong) " "reduce the cd on DP" "reduce the CD on Goank" or so would be interesting. Perhaps a bit bland but well, tired. :D
Yeah I know no choice for holy bu seems to me that three choices for talents are a bit limited for hybrids at least anyways. Probably even for pure DPS in some spots.
Dantriges
 
Posts: 1252
Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2008 12:39 am

Re: New talents MoP - tier 3

Postby Meloree » Sun Oct 23, 2011 10:18 pm

I'm truly fascinated by the talent builds people are coming up with, because they really don't match what I'd choose as a default survivability build at all.

Clearly it's all subject to change, but I'd lean towards this build.

Controllable sprint in the first tier seems far more useful to me than speed varying on Holy Power or a 50% uptime speed increase. All that's likely to do is mess with my timing. Plus, bonus healing - Speed of Light seems like the strongest default choice in Tier one.

Tier two will largely be a fight-by-fight tossup more than any other tier - as a 25man raider, it's almost always going to be the stun, I think, CC is rarely required in boss encounters, and there's a lot of it available for trash.

Ardent Defender has proven over and over again how powerful the cheat death effect is - I think it's a poor choice to give up. Sacred Shield is interesting, but not nearly as powerful in general usage, in my opinion. Blessed Life for threat builds.

Holy Shield seems like an obvious choice - we can assume WoG won't have the overheal bubble option with the talent resets, so it'll be nice to be able to stack up self-shields. It's particularly useful in combination with Holy Avenger in Tier 6.

In Tier 5, Veneration may have situational uses, if there are fights with snares, and Acts of Sacrifice could be a strong choice on some fights. But Clemency is the one that will allow for fight-breaking options. BoP twice, Sac twice - that's handy. Just being able to Freedom twice would have let me save a lot of lives on P1 Al'akir progression, for example. I think that cooldown has the potential to be extremely useful.

In Tier 6, I like Holy Avenger simply because of the interaction with Holy Shield or Word of Glory (depending on if it has a cooldown in MoP). Yeah, it's only usable while we have a major cooldown up, but it's the sort of thing that can really help buy that last 1% on a bossfight where you're down a healer or two, and people are dropping left and right. Divine Purpose is probably the overall choice for threat builds, and Sanctified Wrath may or may not be competitive, but neither offer any survivability benefit, and Holy Avenger does.

So, that's my first look at it.
Meloree
Maintankadonor
 
Posts: 1420
Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2008 10:15 am

Re: New talents MoP - tier 3

Postby rodos » Sun Oct 23, 2011 11:59 pm

I think we'll see a fair bit of shuffling of talents from what's in the preview, but I'm fairly optimistic about this change. It does look like there will be some hard choices, which is good, and some flexibility to cover holes in raid group composition (e.g. Taking Repentance as Ret if there's not enough CC, or Holy Shield as Holy if there's no Disco priest handing out bubbles).

There's a lot of interesting synergy between different tiers too. From a Holy point of view, you could take Eternal Glory and Divine Purpose together, which would give you about 40% chance of free back-to-back WoG. Assuming they don't share a cooldown you could get a double-proc too. Alternatively you could take the new PoJ and Sanctified Wrath and be completely mobile for 20s with up to 30% run speed increase. Being able to switch this easily between fights is even better.
User avatar
rodos
 
Posts: 1120
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2007 8:20 pm

Re: New talents MoP - tier 3

Postby fuzzygeek » Mon Oct 24, 2011 12:02 am

Meloree wrote:I'm truly fascinated by the talent builds people are coming up with, because they really don't match what I'd choose as a default survivability build at all.


Success!

T1: Speed of Light. Clicky control.
T2: Fist of Justice, most likely. SoJ = PvP (generally)
T3: Ardent Defender. Clicky control. Maybe Sacred Shield for some fights.
T4: Holy Shield, assuming it can be self-cast, else EG as least-stupid choice.
T5: Acts of Sacrtifice or Clemency, specifically to be able to use HoSac as an external CD. Situational.
T6: Hard to say. Holy Avenger = 3 ShoRs in a row or whatever within that 10 second window? Sanctified Wrath = 3 judgements? Might be nice if we get something similar to the Judge Dmg => Shield as baseline. Divine Purpose doesn't look that attractive to me from a tanking survivability standpoint.
Image
User avatar
fuzzygeek
Maintankadonor
 
Posts: 5130
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2007 1:58 pm

Re: New talents MoP - tier 3

Postby Torquemada » Mon Oct 24, 2011 12:24 am

Arkesh wrote:
Torquemada wrote:...And Judgment with no cooldown means a cheap rotational filler and a gap closer and when needed an always available sprint.


Only when AW is up right? Or am I missing something?

With the current talents I'll probably be going the same way as Jeremoot. But you can almost guarentee that by beta they'll have changed quite a bit.


Missed the bit about AW having to be up. I blame my writing a 17 page paper this weekend and my eyes being burned out. That makes it fairly no brainer Holy Avenger for me, but again, that's due to my preference of not having RNG.
User avatar
Torquemada
 
Posts: 1681
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2008 3:00 am
Location: Virginia

Re: New talents MoP - tier 3

Postby Passionario » Mon Oct 24, 2011 1:32 am

Note that under new system, builds can be written down as "AACCCBA" or "1133321". :)
If you are not the flame, you're the fuel.
User avatar
Passionario
 
Posts: 3389
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 2:52 am

Re: New talents MoP - tier 3

Postby KysenMurrin » Mon Oct 24, 2011 1:40 am

As a PvP Prot Paladin these days, I'd probably go with Long Arm, FoJ, Sacred Shield, Eternal Glory, the Hand cooldown reduction (with snare removal), and either Holy Avenger or the AW one (if keeping up Long Arm while bursting seemed worth losing a 2nd burst cooldown).

If I was still tanking I'd probably take Holy Shield and Ardent Defender, and last tier would depend on if Judgement absorb is in and better than the survivability options from Holy Power while GAnK is up (does HS have a cooldown?).

I wonder if Holy Avenger will be coded to interact with Pursuit of Justice?
Last edited by KysenMurrin on Mon Oct 24, 2011 1:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
Temporarily playing WoW again.
Donnan - Nangun - Kysen - Kysen - Mardun - Timkins

Mostly-Book Blog.
KysenMurrin
 
Posts: 7100
Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2008 6:37 am
Location: UK

Re: New talents MoP - tier 3

Postby Worldie » Mon Oct 24, 2011 1:55 am

The ability to self-cleanse snares look very powerful to me compared to resetting the cd on hands: how many times you really needed to use 2 hands in a row?

Well, on a side note, Cata content features about 0 snares / roots in raid environment, if that sticks with MoP I guess that talent would have no use at all.
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
User avatar
Worldie
Global Mod
 
Posts: 13656
Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2007 1:49 pm
Location: Italy

Re: New talents MoP - tier 3

Postby KysenMurrin » Mon Oct 24, 2011 1:58 am

Should have been clearer, I meant the one that reduces cooldowns by 20%, which does include snare removal, not the 5 minute cooldown reset.
Temporarily playing WoW again.
Donnan - Nangun - Kysen - Kysen - Mardun - Timkins

Mostly-Book Blog.
KysenMurrin
 
Posts: 7100
Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2008 6:37 am
Location: UK

Re: New talents MoP - tier 3

Postby lythac » Mon Oct 24, 2011 3:21 am

I am not feeling the love for repentance. With 5 man Heroics toned down I can't see the need for us spending a talent point on CC which we might not use. And in raids there should be plenty of CC. Would rather take a Stun.

As it stands I would go for Raiding 5 mans. PoJ could be interesting in 5 mans if you kept 3 HP between trash mobs giving a permanent 30% speed boost or dancing on Heigan/kiting anything.
Last edited by lythac on Mon Oct 24, 2011 3:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
Ryshad / Lythac of <Heretic> Nagrand-EU
User avatar
lythac
Moderator
 
Posts: 2695
Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 8:10 am

Re: New talents MoP - tier 3

Postby Worldie » Mon Oct 24, 2011 3:23 am

Repentance might however be useful for dungeon challenges.
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
User avatar
Worldie
Global Mod
 
Posts: 13656
Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2007 1:49 pm
Location: Italy

Re: New talents MoP - tier 3

Postby Sagara » Mon Oct 24, 2011 3:31 am

PoJ is the odd duck on Tier 1 - its potential is completely dependent on how much we'll sit on out HoPo (and we're likely the ONLY spec that will sit on HoPo). I like the on-demand aspect of LatL/SoL myself, but we'll see...

And I'd rather buy the quick on-demand CC from FoJ also, even for challenges - the concept will probably to try and AoE as much as possible to speed things up and CC and AoE do tend to exclude one another.
When that day comes, seek all the light and wonder of this world, and fight.

Worldie wrote:I used to like it [mean] back on Sylvanas.

Queldan - EU Stormrage (H) - Good night, sweet prince.
User avatar
Sagara
 
Posts: 3453
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2009 1:04 am
Location: Belgium

Re: New talents MoP - tier 3

Postby Alantor » Mon Oct 24, 2011 5:52 am

Dantriges wrote:I hope they introduce a few more talents. When I leveled, I liked it that new abilities were showing up every level at the beginning. With the new system, we have quite a few empty levels.

And well, the system feels a bit too much like utility. We have perhaps one or two interesting choices the rest is more or less set or of no consequence.

Most of it feels like a Glyph. A few are prime glyphs, most are major. Some of it for other classes are actual glyphs.


I thought the same when i saw the new system. Totally agree.

Meloree wrote:Clearly it's all subject to change, but I'd lean towards this build.


Yep that would be my build too.
Alantor
 
Posts: 12
Joined: Sun Oct 23, 2011 6:21 am

PreviousNext

Return to General

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

Who is online

In total there is 1 user online :: 0 registered, 0 hidden and 1 guest (based on users active over the past 5 minutes)
Most users ever online was 380 on Tue Oct 14, 2008 6:28 pm

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest