All about sports

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Re: All about sports

Postby Fridmarr » Tue Aug 06, 2013 7:53 pm

heh well it's a system, I'm not sure how equitable it would be, and the hurdles to implement something like that even if the NCAA wanted too are many and high.

I don't mind the concept of an NCAA regulating collegiate sports to keep the system fair and the leagues healthy, the problem is the implementation.

First of all, the NCAA are bullies. They govern over the athletic programs but are not in any way accountable to the athletes and barely the schools. Not surprisingly in that sort of system, you end up with a bit of a tyrannical oligarchy.

A few years back, Nebraska wanted to give their athletes a stipend, the NCAA told them no. Nebraska pursued it anyhow, and the NCAA informed them that paying a stipend would cause them to be removed from the NCAA and any team that played them would also be removed from the NCAA, effectively ending Nebraska's athletic program if they continued.

When an administration is found in violation of the rules, the punishment mostly lands on the current players, no matter how long ago the "crime" was. If the players try to change schools to avoid the punishment for a crime that they weren't any part of, they are (with very few exceptions) punished again with a year of ineligibility.

If a coach (who often recruits players to play in "their system") decides to leave the school for more money or whatever, the player must stay behind or be punished for leaving.

Then there's all the draconian sorts of rules and enforcement like you have with Johnny. I mean, yes he should have known what he was doing was a violation. These sorts of cases create headlines and happen quite often. I'm sure the players are taught about this sort of thing as well. On the other hand, the NCAA is so hypocritical about this.

If I'm a student at A&M I could take a pic of Manziel doing something stupid and probably sell it to a national rag for a chunk of change. Any student can make money off of Johnny Manziel...except Johnny Manziel. Yet the NCAA want's to keep pounding the "he's a student" mantra, it's bullshit.

I get that he's not exactly playing for free, as his education, room and board are paid for. I understand that opening up a system where the players could get endorsements and the like will just reduce college football to a few schools buying recruits, but certainly there's a happy medium to be reached here with a little common sense and a governing body that's actually accountable to the groups that they govern.
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Re: All about sports

Postby Klaudandus » Wed Aug 07, 2013 4:59 am

I'm not saying the NCAA is not wrong! There's plenty of wrong with it!

I think coaches that quit/change colleges should be barred from working at the school they're going to for a year.

I think that players that come to a college with the idea of being under a coach and then that coach bolts, should be eligible to transfer to another school without penalty.

Heck, the NCAA is a hypocrite: http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/ncaab-the ... 10661.html

However... Johnny Manziel still did wrong! And I'm a goddamn Aggie!
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Re: All about sports

Postby Shoju » Wed Aug 07, 2013 7:22 am

I'm of the opinion that the NCAA is a joke. it's a sham, and I REALLY hope that the class action lawsuit against them ends with a landslide victory for the Plaintiffs.

Collegiate Sports is the only thing on a college campus where you are actively BARRED from making any money off of a set of skills that you posses, even while on scholarship.

I can speak with direct knowledge that I was not only allowed, but encouraged by my College to take side jobs, and earn cash while I was enrolled, using the knowledge I was learning at the University, while the University was picking up the dime for my expenses. My Academic Advisor, Professor's, Hell, even the DEAN OF ADMISSIONS offered me sidework.

I can speak with direct knowledge that while my sister's roommate was enrolled at Ohio State, and in the OSU Symphony (or whatever they call their Orchestra), she played gigs in local places, making money, and she was on Scholarship to OSU. It's how she paid for the other things that her scholarship DIDN'T cover while going to school.

I know that Actors, and Actresses, and Comedians, and all other manner of people have gone to school, on scholarship, while famous (Wasn't it River's Cuomo from Weezer who went Ivy League on an Academic Scholarship?), and making money.

But, Because College Athletics (okay, in most cases just basketball, and Football) are BIG BUSINESS for the NCAA, they don't want to lose any of that pie. Video Games, Jersey Sales, etc... that's a HUGE PIE that they currently don't have to share, and they can make all of it FOR FREE off of the indentured servitude of the "Student Athlete"

Getting paid for Appearances
Getting Paid for Autographs
Getting Free Stuff

Isn't that part of the Celebrity lifestyle that they foster? Isn't that the very culture that they have worked to cultivate to make their product (college sports) more equitable?

To me, I have absolutely no problem with what Manziel did. He shouldn't have done it, because he knows it's against the rules. But, If you want my opinion, I just don't care. I don't think that the NCAA should care. I didn't care that Bush got stuff at USC. I didn't care that Buckeyes Sold their Gold Pants, and got free Tattoos.

I do care that the NCAA seems to want to make sure that they are the only people profiting off the kids though.
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Re: All about sports

Postby halabar » Wed Aug 07, 2013 8:41 am

It's really simple...

Players should get a default base "salary".

Players whose names and likenesses are used should get a cut.

Players should be able to sign autographs and such and get paid, as the market bears.

The problem is, what do you do about the other sports?

You do need to make sure all schools are paying the same, otherwise the boosters will run amuck.
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Re: All about sports

Postby Klaudandus » Wed Aug 07, 2013 9:51 am

All the other sports are leeching off the football programs, and the basketball program to a lesser degree.

Ask the guy in the swimming team. Ask the guy in the tennis program.

The incoming money from football is what pays for the other sports programs.
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Re: All about sports

Postby Shoju » Wed Aug 07, 2013 10:44 am

Klaudandus wrote:All the other sports are leeching off the football programs, and the basketball program to a lesser degree.

Ask the guy in the swimming team. Ask the guy in the tennis program.

The incoming money from football is what pays for the other sports programs.


This has made me look at my opinion about this topic over the past couple of years. Originally, I was of the opinion "PAY EM!" But, that would "hurt" the other sports. But something needs to be done. Barring a kid from making money off the celebrity that they earned is just ridiculous. The NCAA/Universities pocketing all the money from NCAA Licensed Video Games featuring the likeness of the "Student Athlete" is also ridiculous. This isn't the 1950's when people wearing Jersey's was not a common sight, or when the majority of your income came from ticket sales. This is the digital age, and they are (as Bilas proved) doing EVERYTHING they can to bilk money out of the likeness of a Student Athlete, while working hard to ensure that the Student Athlete can't capitalize on it themselves.

Honestly? I'm all for endorsement deals, and allowing kids to accept money for appearances and Autographs, and opening up the rules on gifts a little. That works for all sports, all athletes. Just because the main stream society doesn't pay serious attention to a sport doesn't mean it doesn't have fans. And where there are fans, there are endorsement deals. No, they won't be comparably equitable deals comparing FB & Hoops to Lacrosse, and Swimming. But if the kid can get an endorsement deal? They should be allowed.

If someone wants to pay them 7500 bucks to sign a ton of merch? Well, that's fine. Why is it ok for someone to sell an autograph that they get at a game, or at an event, for money, and profit on it, but the guy doing the signing isn't? That just boggles my mind.
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Re: All about sports

Postby Flex » Wed Aug 07, 2013 11:59 am

Like I said earlier the NFL and NBA need to really do what both MLB and NHL already do.
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Re: All about sports

Postby Fridmarr » Wed Aug 07, 2013 2:01 pm

Well endorsements suffer from similar problems.  Big schools will already have endorsements lined up for recruits.  It's just a way to funnel money to recruits which results a league that is much less compelling than it is now.  It's no different than a booster handing a kid money to go to school X, which is all any sort of endorsement system will become.
 
In big schools other sports get to leech off of football, but many football programs aren't even profitable when you step away from the BCS division (or even some fringe schools in that division).  It's not a simple issue to solve, but the current solution could easily be improved.
 
 
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Re: All about sports

Postby Koatanga » Wed Aug 07, 2013 2:54 pm

halabar wrote:It's really simple...

Players should get a default base "salary".

Players whose names and likenesses are used should get a cut.

Players should be able to sign autographs and such and get paid, as the market bears.

The problem is, what do you do about the other sports?

You do need to make sure all schools are paying the same, otherwise the boosters will run amuck.

The NCAA should be that regulatory agency.

If they operated as an agent for all college players, then they could broker sponsorship deals for them on local and national levels. If the money for those endorsements and signature merchandise and etc. went into a pool, combined with NCAA's income from TV rights, etc., then a portion of it could be earmarked for other sports, some could go to competition-evening pools, such that Big 10 schools would share a portion of the profits from all Big 10 games, and a portion could go back to the players to reward them for earning the money in the first place.

Under that arrangement, players would get used to dealing with an agent and be exposed to the business side of being a professional athlete, smoothing their transition into the professional ranks. They would still have the regular agents for brokering their professional contracts.

Everybody wins, and the NCAA doesn't have to be a draconian douchebag.
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Re: All about sports

Postby halabar » Wed Aug 07, 2013 6:21 pm

Koatanga wrote:
halabar wrote:It's really simple...

Players should get a default base "salary".

Players whose names and likenesses are used should get a cut.

Players should be able to sign autographs and such and get paid, as the market bears.

The problem is, what do you do about the other sports?

You do need to make sure all schools are paying the same, otherwise the boosters will run amuck.

The NCAA should be that regulatory agency.

If they operated as an agent for all college players, then they could broker sponsorship deals for them on local and national levels. If the money for those endorsements and signature merchandise and etc. went into a pool, combined with NCAA's income from TV rights, etc., then a portion of it could be earmarked for other sports, some could go to competition-evening pools, such that Big 10 schools would share a portion of the profits from all Big 10 games, and a portion could go back to the players to reward them for earning the money in the first place.

Under that arrangement, players would get used to dealing with an agent and be exposed to the business side of being a professional athlete, smoothing their transition into the professional ranks. They would still have the regular agents for brokering their professional contracts.

Everybody wins, and the NCAA doesn't have to be a draconian douchebag.


Sure, as long as you fire all the current administration of the NCAA and start over, but the current jerks in those seats would never do the job well. (Get rid of the guys in charge of the various conferences as well, since that's pretty corrupt as well).
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Re: All about sports

Postby Flex » Thu Aug 08, 2013 11:58 am

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Re: All about sports

Postby Shoju » Fri Aug 09, 2013 8:58 am

Effing Tigers Swept through Cleveland. That was.... Painful.

At least we're still in the mix for the WC. I don't know if 7 games back is a lead we can overcome, and there are rumors swirling (no hard evidence) that the Tribe and Phils are working on a Waiver Trade for Michael Young. How much fire is under that smoke remains to be seen.

Hey, at least the Browns won?
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Re: All about sports

Postby Flex » Fri Aug 09, 2013 10:01 am

Shoju wrote:Effing Tigers Swept through Cleveland. That was.... Painful.

At least we're still in the mix for the WC. I don't know if 7 games back is a lead we can overcome, and there are rumors swirling (no hard evidence) that the Tribe and Phils are working on a Waiver Trade for Michael Young. How much fire is under that smoke remains to be seen.

Hey, at least the Browns won?


Look out 2008 Lions. The Browns are out for you!
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Re: All about sports

Postby Shoju » Fri Aug 09, 2013 10:32 am

Flex wrote:
Shoju wrote:Effing Tigers Swept through Cleveland. That was.... Painful.

At least we're still in the mix for the WC. I don't know if 7 games back is a lead we can overcome, and there are rumors swirling (no hard evidence) that the Tribe and Phils are working on a Waiver Trade for Michael Young. How much fire is under that smoke remains to be seen.

Hey, at least the Browns won?


Look out 2008 Lions. The Browns are out for you!


That wouldn't surprise me any more than them going 13-3 and winning the division. Last night, Weeden looked REALLY efficient, and we do have a good OC (Turner was a great OC in Dallas, with a track record of developing QB's), but I'm not 100% sure that I'm sold on Weeden, or Hoyer, or Campbell. Richardson didn't play, so I'm not sure about the Running game, but holy shit travis benjamin is insanely fast.
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Re: All about sports

Postby Fridmarr » Fri Aug 09, 2013 10:51 am

I think that severely underestimates how surprising a 13-3 season from the browns would be :D
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Re: All about sports

Postby halabar » Fri Aug 09, 2013 11:32 am

Back to the NCAA....

Imagine the chaos if the SEC, Pac-12, and BigEast10whatever decided to leave the NCAA?

Form 4 superconferences, and tell the NCAA in it's current form to take a hike.
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Re: All about sports

Postby Shoju » Fri Aug 09, 2013 11:43 am

Fridmarr wrote:I think that severely underestimates how surprising a 13-3 season from the browns would be :D



Nah, 13-3, wouldn't be surprising with the schedule this year. Our Schedule is really pretty soft this season.

Fins - Winnable
At Ravens - LOSS
At Vikes - Winnable
Bengals - Winnable
Bills - Winnable
Lions - Winnable
At GB - LOSS
At KC - Winnable
Ravens - MAYBE winnable
At Bengals - Winnable
Steelers - Winnable
Jags - Winnable
At NE - LOSS
Bears - MAYBE Winnable
At Jets - Winnable
At Steelers - MAYBE Winnable

There are 10 games that are completely winnable, 3 that would require a little luck, and 3 that are downright losses IMO. I also might be underselling the Steelers and Bengals a little, but I really just don't see the Steelers doing squat this year, and since Cincy looked respectable last year, it's time for them to suck.

Now, if I'm being realistic, instead of optimistic, We're looking down the barrel of a 6-10 to 10-6 season, depending on how things roll with the road games, and the coaching changes.
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Re: All about sports

Postby Flex » Fri Aug 09, 2013 12:08 pm

Every team in the NFL is an 8-8 team. It depends on how many breaks they get that pushes them to an 1-10 or 10-6 record.

http://deadspin.com/why-your-team-sucks ... 1079538404

Reader Email 1:
These are the same mouth-breathing idiots that called the local sports radio shows, crying that we traded Anquan Boldin (old as shit, not that productive sans the playoff run) because "Joe Flacco is too greedy."


Reader Email 2:
Oh my God, we are the fucking worst. We gave a dead giraffe $120,000,000, and told the next few generation of fans to go fuck themselves. We gave our best player away to the team who almost beat us in the Super Bowl for a 6th round pick. Why not? Doesn't matter anyways since they gave Flacco controlling interest in the team.
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Re: All about sports

Postby Fridmarr » Fri Aug 09, 2013 4:35 pm

Shoju wrote:Nah, 13-3, wouldn't be surprising with the schedule this year. Our Schedule is really pretty soft this season.

Fins - Winnable
At Ravens - LOSS
At Vikes - Winnable
Bengals - Winnable
Bills - Winnable
Lions - Winnable
At GB - LOSS
At KC - Winnable
Ravens - MAYBE winnable
At Bengals - Winnable
Steelers - Winnable
Jags - Winnable
At NE - LOSS
Bears - MAYBE Winnable
At Jets - Winnable
At Steelers - MAYBE Winnable

There are 10 games that are completely winnable, 3 that would require a little luck, and 3 that are downright losses IMO. I also might be underselling the Steelers and Bengals a little, but I really just don't see the Steelers doing squat this year, and since Cincy looked respectable last year, it's time for them to suck.

Now, if I'm being realistic, instead of optimistic, We're looking down the barrel of a 6-10 to 10-6 season, depending on how things roll with the road games, and the coaching changes.
In the NFL, pretty much every game is winnable. However, since I firmly believe that if the Cleveland Browns played every single game as best that they possibly could, they would still not win 13 games, I think we'll just have to agree to disagree.
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Re: All about sports

Postby Klaudandus » Sat Aug 10, 2013 11:47 am

Jack Clark fired after Pujols threatens to sue everyone.

On one hand, Clark is a dumbass, but gave voice to what many have thought about Pujols at one point ir another. On the other hand, last time i heard such a defensive statement like Pujols', they had come from the mouths of Braun and Palmeiro.

Oh, and Armstrong never tested positive either... just saying.
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Re: All about sports

Postby halabar » Sat Aug 10, 2013 11:52 am

Klaudandus wrote:Jack Clark fired after Pujols threatens to sue everyone.

On one hand, Clark is a dumbass, but gave voice to what many have thought about Pujols at one point ir another. On the other hand, last time i heard such a defensive statement like Pujols', they had come from the mouths of Braun and Palmeiro.

Oh, and Armstrong never tested positive either... just saying.


Ok, I'm here to out Klaudanus for PEDs. (not that they really helped, but....) It must be true.

The problem with Clark is not that he repeated what he was told, it's that he's been on a world tour practically, trying to tear down Pujols. It's one thing to report it, it's another to have an obvious agenda.

Sometime when there's smoke it's just a jackass with a cigar.
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Re: All about sports

Postby Klaudandus » Sat Aug 10, 2013 12:49 pm

Yeah, I take beer during raids, it helps me tank better. :p

I ain't saying Clark is not wrong, hence why I said he's a dumbass. At the same time, Pujols is on the list of players I'd not be surprised if we later find out he used PEDs.
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Re: All about sports

Postby Shoju » Mon Aug 12, 2013 10:08 am

Fridmarr wrote:
Shoju wrote:Nah, 13-3, wouldn't be surprising with the schedule this year. Our Schedule is really pretty soft this season.

Fins - Winnable
At Ravens - LOSS
At Vikes - Winnable
Bengals - Winnable
Bills - Winnable
Lions - Winnable
At GB - LOSS
At KC - Winnable
Ravens - MAYBE winnable
At Bengals - Winnable
Steelers - Winnable
Jags - Winnable
At NE - LOSS
Bears - MAYBE Winnable
At Jets - Winnable
At Steelers - MAYBE Winnable

There are 10 games that are completely winnable, 3 that would require a little luck, and 3 that are downright losses IMO. I also might be underselling the Steelers and Bengals a little, but I really just don't see the Steelers doing squat this year, and since Cincy looked respectable last year, it's time for them to suck.

Now, if I'm being realistic, instead of optimistic, We're looking down the barrel of a 6-10 to 10-6 season, depending on how things roll with the road games, and the coaching changes.
In the NFL, pretty much every game is winnable. However, since I firmly believe that if the Cleveland Browns played every single game as best that they possibly could, they would still not win 13 games, I think we'll just have to agree to disagree.


Probably best to just do that, since I'm of the opinion that our offensive line, and richardson could line up, and play their best game against 6 of those teams, and blow them out.

But part of the problem is, that we have had such inept playcalling under mangini and shurmur, that unless you were watching the entire game, it's hard to get a sense of who can do what, since there were plenty of times that those two coaches beat themselves with terrible, abysmal, vomit inducing playcalling, that would have gotten them blown out on Madden on easy Difficulty.
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Re: All about sports

Postby Klaudandus » Mon Aug 12, 2013 10:17 am

I dunno. I thought Mangini was decent.
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Re: All about sports

Postby Flex » Mon Aug 12, 2013 10:37 am

Mangenius. Get it right.
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