All about sports

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Re: All about sports

Postby Klaudandus » Wed Feb 27, 2013 12:48 pm

Flex wrote:
Paxen wrote:Alex Smith isn't "elite" or a "franchise quarterback", but he's going to give the Chiefs breathing room until they can find such a player (or let them ignore QB and build around the defense).


Alex Smith is Matt Cassel with a different name.


And just look at how Cassel turned out to be with the Chiefs
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Re: All about sports

Postby Shoju » Wed Feb 27, 2013 1:03 pm

Flex wrote:
Paxen wrote:Alex Smith isn't "elite" or a "franchise quarterback", but he's going to give the Chiefs breathing room until they can find such a player (or let them ignore QB and build around the defense).


Alex Smith is Matt Cassel with a different name.


My initial response was to say: "I DON'T AGREE!" But then I got looking at career numbers in my fancy dancy spreadsheet. Ugh. If anything? The numbers say over their careers Cassel has been..... "better".

Better Snaps to TD
Better Snaps to INT
Better Snaps Per Fumble
Better Snaps Per Sack
Better Yards per Snap
Better Snaps per Neg Play

Cassel is better in each category. Granted, it's not by much. All of them are within.... "relative" proximity that if this were mythbusters, I'd tell you that the difference between the two wasn't great enough to call it confirmed that Cassel is better. I would have to say it's Plausible, But that the trend is pointing "up" for Smith, with his numbers improving year by year, while Cassel's have been trending down.

I'd still take Alex Smith 10 times a day, every day over Cassel.
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Re: All about sports

Postby Flex » Wed Feb 27, 2013 1:04 pm

Klaudandus wrote:
Flex wrote:
Paxen wrote:Alex Smith isn't "elite" or a "franchise quarterback", but he's going to give the Chiefs breathing room until they can find such a player (or let them ignore QB and build around the defense).


Alex Smith is Matt Cassel with a different name.


And just look at how Cassel turned out to be with the Chiefs


I want to know where the '08 and '10 Cassel came from.

But that the trend is pointing "up" for Smith, with his numbers improving year by year, while Cassel's have been trending down.


The 49ers under Harbaugh with Smith as QB was built like the Ravens with Dilfer as the QB. Don't lose us the game. The Chiefs aren't that type of team where the defense, special teams or the rest of the offense that isn't the QB can out right win the game. Smith will trend down.
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Re: All about sports

Postby halabar » Wed Feb 27, 2013 1:46 pm

Flex wrote:
But that the trend is pointing "up" for Smith, with his numbers improving year by year, while Cassel's have been trending down.


The 49ers under Harbaugh with Smith as QB was built like the Ravens with Dilfer as the QB. Don't lose us the game. The Chiefs aren't that type of team where the defense, special teams or the rest of the offense that isn't the QB can out right win the game. Smith will trend down.


Smith's last two years were a product of the system.

The $10m question is, can he translate that to a new environment, and/or, can Reid duplicate/improve on what it took to make Smith successful?

Edit: Still, given the other options available, gambling a 2nd round pick this year and another the next seems like a fair bet, since there are likely no NFL-starters-day-one in this year's draft, and Flynn is the only other reasonable trade candidate.
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Re: All about sports

Postby CrimsonEyes » Wed Feb 27, 2013 2:00 pm

Not to mention, Smith's done badly given that every year, practically, he's had a new coach or Offensive Coordinator. He FINALLY had some stability between last year and this year....


...and now he gets a completely new coach, teammates, and offensive coordinator. No, don't expect the Chiefs to do well next year, I'm pretty sure the rest of the AFC West is thanking the 49ers for giving them two free wins next year.
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Re: All about sports

Postby Klaudandus » Thu Feb 28, 2013 7:03 am

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Re: All about sports

Postby Marwan » Thu Feb 28, 2013 8:38 am

Klaudandus wrote:http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2013/2/28/4039438/brady-quinn-new-york-jets-nfl-rumors

HAHAHAHAHHA


Oh Brody Qualls ...

Have fun New York.
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Re: All about sports

Postby Nakama » Thu Feb 28, 2013 6:26 pm

Flex wrote:
Paxen wrote:Alex Smith isn't "elite" or a "franchise quarterback", but he's going to give the Chiefs breathing room until they can find such a player (or let them ignore QB and build around the defense).


Alex Smith is Matt Cassel with a different name.


As much as I want to be positive for the home town team, I have to agree with this sentiment. Alex Smith will only be as good as Reid's coaching will allow him to be. While Reid supposedly has a good record with making something out of nothing in the QB department, I (and most of the KC fandom) don't trust that this isn't going to end up being Cassel 2.0 for the Chiefs.

If only the Chiefs had some recievers besides Bowe, there might be hope in that department, but Breaston and company do not a good receiving corps make.

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Re: All about sports

Postby Shoju » Fri Mar 01, 2013 10:49 am

I don't know if I agree with the sentiment that Alex Smith was only a product of the system. In 2006, he had fairly good numbers. The only difference in 06 as compared to the past two years under Harbaugh were the number of picks he threw, and his completion %.

Alex Smith wasn't the reason that they lost last year either.

and I don't think he's a Dilfer type. Dilfer never completed 60%. Anywhere. Smith has done so 3 times. He was also over 70% when he lost his job this season. In Dilfer's SB Winning Season, he was Remarkably average.

59.3% Comp rate
1502 yds in 11 games (8 starts)
136.5 yds per g
12 td
11 int
-5.49 yds lost per sack
20 rushing attempts for 75 yds
0 Rushing Td's
8 Fumbles

That is about as "bland" as it gets at QB. You can look at either of Smith's seasons that were SB caliber teams

61.3 | 70.1 % Comp rate
3144 | 1737 Yds in 16 games and 10 games
196.5 | 173.7 Yds Per Game
17 TD | 13 TD
5 INT | 5 INT
5.89 | 6.61 Yds lost per sack
52 - 179 | 31 - 132 Rushing Attempts / Yards
2 | 0 Rushing TDS
7 | 3 Fumbles


Smith had better Comp Rates,
Better Yards Per Game
More TD's
Less Int's
More mobile

Dilfer
Lost less yards per sack

They both fumble.

To me, Saying Smith is a game manager is a fallacy, because of his horrible coaching situations. Learning new schemes, learning new things, never having a good solid core group on the team.

Suddenly, when harbaugh Shows up, and starts working with him, he improves. In the second year, he was fantastic. He was a good, not great QB, on a good team. Every QB is asked to go out on the field, and "Not Lose the Game". That's sort of the point.

Now you could make a case that Smith wasn't being asked to win the games. But, how many Qb's are really asked to go out there and win the game. Smith is an upgrade at QB for a lot of teams.
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Re: All about sports

Postby Klaudandus » Fri Mar 01, 2013 2:19 pm

What amazes me is that the skins didnt shop Cousins around.

Also, on other NFL news, Falcons release Turner.
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Re: All about sports

Postby Shoju » Fri Mar 01, 2013 3:06 pm

Klaudandus wrote:What amazes me is that the skins didnt shop Cousins around.

Also, on other NFL news, Falcons release Turner.


I think they're afraid that RGIII is a Ming Vase that has been wrapped poorly, being delivered by that guy who throws TVs over fences.
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Re: All about sports

Postby Klaudandus » Fri Mar 01, 2013 3:14 pm

Well, I hate the skins, so.... =P
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Re: All about sports

Postby Klaudandus » Mon Mar 04, 2013 12:32 pm

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Re: All about sports

Postby Teranoid » Mon Mar 04, 2013 12:37 pm

Wakka Flocka Flacco gets the biggest contract for a QB in history. Going to be somewhat amusing if he gets Trent Green'd in a game a year into that contract.

I mean don't get me wrong winning a playoff game every year since you've been drafted and a ring is worth a payday but jesus.. 120 mil over 6 for a guy whose career could end up being over in the blink of an eye with almost half of that guaranteed money?
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Re: All about sports

Postby Koatanga » Mon Mar 04, 2013 1:14 pm

Klaudandus wrote:http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Manti-Teo-says-he-ran-in-46-range-in-training-for-combine.html?sct=uk_t2_a9

Yeah, and his girlfriend was real.

Who do you think timed his 4.6?
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Re: All about sports

Postby Koatanga » Mon Mar 04, 2013 1:19 pm

Teranoid wrote:Wakka Flocka Flacco gets the biggest contract for a QB in history. Going to be somewhat amusing if he gets Trent Green'd in a game a year into that contract.

I mean don't get me wrong winning a playoff game every year since you've been drafted and a ring is worth a payday but jesus.. 120 mil over 6 for a guy whose career could end up being over in the blink of an eye with almost half of that guaranteed money?

It was a perfect storm for his agent. Flacco just won the Super Bowl, the free agent market for QBs is abysmal, and the draft looks like crap. If the Ravens didn't keep Flacco, then it's either hope Barkley falls to #32, trade the Seahawks for Flynn, or it's Tebow Time. Flacco had them over a barrel.
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Re: All about sports

Postby Klaudandus » Mon Mar 04, 2013 1:26 pm

Koatanga wrote:
Klaudandus wrote:http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Manti-Teo-says-he-ran-in-46-range-in-training-for-combine.html?sct=uk_t2_a9

Yeah, and his girlfriend was real.

Who do you think timed his 4.6?


His gf, but I think she was talking about his time in bed. =P

Te'o look awful against 'bama.
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Re: All about sports

Postby Flex » Mon Mar 04, 2013 1:41 pm

Koatanga wrote:
Teranoid wrote:Wakka Flocka Flacco gets the biggest contract for a QB in history. Going to be somewhat amusing if he gets Trent Green'd in a game a year into that contract.

I mean don't get me wrong winning a playoff game every year since you've been drafted and a ring is worth a payday but jesus.. 120 mil over 6 for a guy whose career could end up being over in the blink of an eye with almost half of that guaranteed money?

It was a perfect storm for his agent. Flacco just won the Super Bowl, the free agent market for QBs is abysmal, and the draft looks like crap. If the Ravens didn't keep Flacco, then it's either hope Barkley falls to #32, trade the Seahawks for Flynn, or it's Tebow Time. Flacco had them over a barrel.


NFL contracts are a joke. Brady restructures his deal every few years to get more guaranteed money and lessen his cap hit. Flacco's 6 year deal is a three year deal because if he continues being playoff Flacco-like in getting to and winning in the playoffs they'll resructure for year 4 or he could be regular season Flacco-like and have 8 duds a year and not make the playoffs and get cut and they'll eat the cap hit or whatever.
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Re: All about sports

Postby Paxen » Mon Mar 04, 2013 2:36 pm

Plus, the cap keeps rising at irregular intervals, so it's hard to compare a contract signed this year with one signed just one or two years ago.
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Re: All about sports

Postby Shoju » Tue Mar 05, 2013 9:24 am

I for one don't have a problem with the Flacco deal. Good for him. The guy is a much better QB than people give him credit for. His numbers look a little less "impressive" than some other Qb's, because he has

a Great Defense
A Great running Game

He's still a great QB. Look at the playoff games this season. He was great.
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Re: All about sports

Postby Flex » Tue Mar 05, 2013 11:06 am

Shoju wrote:He's still a great QB. Look at the playoff games this season. He was great.


I think by the numbers he had the second or third best playoffs of any quarterback. The issue is that 3 to 5 times a season he just isn't good. He's not just bad he's putrid, like worst QB you've ever seen.
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Re: All about sports

Postby Shoju » Tue Mar 05, 2013 11:17 am

Flex wrote:
Shoju wrote:He's still a great QB. Look at the playoff games this season. He was great.


I think by the numbers he had the second or third best playoffs of any quarterback. The issue is that 3 to 5 times a season he just isn't good. He's not just bad he's putrid, like worst QB you've ever seen.


Only if you don't watch Browns games.
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Re: All about sports

Postby CrimsonEyes » Tue Mar 05, 2013 2:26 pm

Well, yes, but could you really keep a straight face while calling anyone under center for the Browns a QB?

Or, for that matter, Gabbert, Cassel, Vick, etc?

Flacco is at least (most of the time), a QB. Those lot? Not at all worth the title.
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Re: All about sports

Postby Koatanga » Tue Mar 05, 2013 8:14 pm

My new benchmark for QBs is Russell Wilson. If a player is as good or better than Wilson, then he's a real QB. If not, he's a pretender.
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Re: All about sports

Postby Shoju » Wed Mar 06, 2013 9:05 am

For me, Wilson is a one season wonder so far. I'm not putting stock in him, or any other young QB until they show that they can be good for multiple years.

I mean, I could use Derek Anderson. That 2007 season was awesome.

Don't get me wrong, I think that Wilson, and Luck, and Even RGIII (if he can stay healthy) will be great QB's in the league, but I wont use them as a benchmark until they have shown they can do it for a few years.
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