All about sports

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Re: All about sports

Postby Shoju » Mon Feb 11, 2013 12:12 pm

Had him. Don't want him back.
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Re: All about sports

Postby Koatanga » Mon Feb 11, 2013 12:38 pm

Shoju wrote:Sure, if you are looking at the overall median of all QB's who start, it is a massive difference. But the more apt analogy would be to compare him to a list of QB's that include

Cam Newton
Andy Dalton
Blaine Gabbert
Andrew Luck
RG III
Brandon Weeden.

You can't compare him to Tom Brady and Peyton Manning in terms of salary. Experience, track record, winning, those are all things that have given them the resume to have large amounts of money.

Is he underpaid? Probably, but it's not by 27 million dollars over three years.

In the post above yours, I did compare him to Luck, whose contract is similar to RGIII's. The difference is $18 million over their 4-year contracts. They, too, are hampered by the rookie cap situation.

This year's Franchise Tag number for QBs, which is the average of the top 5, is $24 million. The $30 million over 3 years figure was regarding the median salary, not anywhere near what the top guys get.
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Re: All about sports

Postby Shoju » Mon Feb 11, 2013 1:05 pm

I understand what you are saying. What I'm saying, is that you can't compare the guys who just got hired to the median, because the median includes the guys who have been on the job for a while with track records of success.

For a real world example, I graduated college. In my field, the Median Salary across the US was 46,000. Now, there are factors that create that. Cost of Living - Experience - Years on the Job, to name a few. Comparing one guy, to the median is just not going to create an accurate picture.

In an NFL QB situation, you have factors and variables of the workers that play into the median salary.

So, he makes less than RGIII and Luck. Ok. Well, Why? Because they were drafted in the first round, and he was drafted in the 3rd. They were expected to come in, and set the world on fire. He was expected to bounce passes off the backs of his OL. Is it right? Is it fair? On one hand, no. It's not fair that he's locked into the contract. On the other hand, Yeah. It's Fair. It happens. He got drafted in the 3rd round. It's what happens.

But we also need to be realistic. We are talking about someone outplaying a rookie 4 year contract after year 1. I don't want to sound rude, but would it really be a shocker if he came in next year and stunk up the joint? (Historically speaking)

No. It wouldn't be surprising. He wouldn't be the first QB to enjoy one raging year of success, only to turn out to be a dud. (cough cough Derek Anderson cough cough)

So while I find it unfortunate, that RW broke the system, and isn't going to be paid as much as "he's worth", I'm not sure I'm ready to overhaul the system over it.
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Re: All about sports

Postby Flex » Mon Feb 11, 2013 2:16 pm

Remember when Josh Freeman had an amazing year? Heck, remember when Matt Cassel played like one of the best in the league?
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Re: All about sports

Postby Klaudandus » Mon Feb 11, 2013 2:18 pm

Matt Cassel is a product of the system. The jury is still out on Flynn though, seeing as he didnt play this year (being stuck behind Rodgers and Wilson)
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Re: All about sports

Postby Flex » Mon Feb 11, 2013 2:20 pm

Klaudandus wrote:Matt Cassel is a product of the system. The jury is still out on Flynn though, seeing as he didnt play this year (being stuck behind Rodgers and Wilson)


He had a great year with the Patriots and a great year with the Chiefs. Pretty sure this year broke the every other year trend he was on.
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Re: All about sports

Postby Klaudandus » Mon Feb 11, 2013 2:23 pm

And now rumors that the NFL is considering widening the field, make it more like the CFL
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Re: All about sports

Postby Koatanga » Mon Feb 11, 2013 5:30 pm

Shoju wrote:I understand what you are saying. What I'm saying, is that you can't compare the guys who just got hired to the median, because the median includes the guys who have been on the job for a while with track records of success.

For a real world example, I graduated college. In my field, the Median Salary across the US was 46,000. Now, there are factors that create that. Cost of Living - Experience - Years on the Job, to name a few. Comparing one guy, to the median is just not going to create an accurate picture.

In an NFL QB situation, you have factors and variables of the workers that play into the median salary.

So, he makes less than RGIII and Luck. Ok. Well, Why? Because they were drafted in the first round, and he was drafted in the 3rd. They were expected to come in, and set the world on fire. He was expected to bounce passes off the backs of his OL. Is it right? Is it fair? On one hand, no. It's not fair that he's locked into the contract. On the other hand, Yeah. It's Fair. It happens. He got drafted in the 3rd round. It's what happens.

But we also need to be realistic. We are talking about someone outplaying a rookie 4 year contract after year 1. I don't want to sound rude, but would it really be a shocker if he came in next year and stunk up the joint? (Historically speaking)

No. It wouldn't be surprising. He wouldn't be the first QB to enjoy one raging year of success, only to turn out to be a dud. (cough cough Derek Anderson cough cough)

So while I find it unfortunate, that RW broke the system, and isn't going to be paid as much as "he's worth", I'm not sure I'm ready to overhaul the system over it.

I do understand your position, but I do reckon it's OK to look at the median because Wilson out-performed the median by a fair amount while making (by cap figure) 1/20th of their income.

I can understand half because he's a rookie, or even a third, or at a stretch 1/4 of the vet's pay. But 1/20th? That's ridiculous.

In your field, the median salary is 46,000. Do people start at 2,300/yr? Would you think it reasonable as a "rookie" pay scale in your field?

I do agree there are flash-in-the-pan players. I am not suggesting any salary increase should be compulsory. However, I am suggesting that if a team wants to pay a player more, they shouldn't have to wait 3 years if they are pretty sure the player is the real deal.

And for the record I would be completely shocked if Wilson's performance declines next season. His work ethic and preparation will prevent it, and he will probably get some actual people to throw to in the off-season.
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Re: All about sports

Postby Koatanga » Mon Feb 11, 2013 5:42 pm

Here are the 2012 figures for projected starters in the NFL. These are *salary only*, excluding amortised signing bonus, so they are not the cap figures. Signing bonuses would increase the amounts across the board.

1. Peyton Manning, Broncos - $19.2
2. Ben Roethlisberger, Steelers - $17
3. Michael Vick, Eagles - $16
4. Tom Brady, Patriots - $15.7
5. Eli Manning, Giants - $15.27
6. Drew Brees, Saints - $14.4 (Franchise Tagged in 2012)
7. Phillip Rivers, Chargers - $14.04
8. Sam Bradford, Rams - $13
9. Kevin Kolb, Cardinals - $12.6
10. Matthew Stafford, Lions - $12
11. Matt Ryan, Falcons - $12
12. Mark Sanchez, Jets - $11.64
13. Tony Romo, Cowboys - $11.17
14. Aaron Rodgers, Packers - $10.83
15. Carson Palmer, Raiders - $10.75
16. Matt Cassel, Chiefs - $10.5
17. Jay Cutler, Bears - $10
18. Ryan Fitzpatrick, Bills - $9.8
19. Matt Schaub, Texans - $8
20. Alex Smith, 49ers - $8 (new contract for 2012)
21. Matt Hasselbeck, Titans - $6.67
22. Matt Flynn, Seahawks - $6.5
23. Joe Flacco, Ravens - $6
24. *Andrew Luck, Colts - $5.9
25. Cam Newton, Panthers - $5.5
26. *Robert Griffin, Redskins - $5.4
27. Josh Freeman, Bucs - $5.2
28. Chad Henne, Jaguars - $3.38
29. David Garrard, Dolphins - $3.35
30. *Brandon Weeden, Browns - $2.8
31. Christian Ponder, Vikings - $2.54
32. Andy Dalton, Bengals - $1.3

Russell Wilson, Seahawks - $0.39

That's way out of whack.
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Re: All about sports

Postby halabar » Mon Feb 11, 2013 8:42 pm

Shoju wrote:Had him. Don't want him back.



Well, you signed Bourn, best bat left on the market.
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Re: All about sports

Postby Klaudandus » Tue Feb 12, 2013 7:08 am

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Re: All about sports

Postby Shoju » Tue Feb 12, 2013 9:39 am

halabar wrote:
Shoju wrote:Had him. Don't want him back.



Well, you signed Bourn, best bat left on the market.



I know... I'm... shocked? WTF?! It's like the someone slipped the Dolan's a laxative, because the wallet fell out, and money poured out in Cleveland like bad diarrhea after taco bell. Sorry, That was a gross analogy, but really, it's the only thing I can come up with to explain the sudden maniacal money spending that they have gone on. To some, it doesn't seem like much, but when you as a fan are used to Casey Kotchman being the "Prize" catch of your Off Season Free agency signings, seeing then drop around 100m in Free Agency, you are shocked.

4 yr 56m for Swish
4 yr 48m for Bourn
1 yr 7m for Myers
1 yr 1.5m for matsuzaka
1 yr 6m for reynolds
1 yr 1m for giambia

Thats 119.5 Million Dollars they doled out to players this offseason, and that doesn't include the players that we picked up in trades.

I'm excited. My Indians Fandom is.... more than just a "Hey how are the tribe doing" and check the stats. I want to watch games. I'm thinking I might actually want to take my kids to a game.

Which is saying something, since before this all started, You had Shapiro flapping his gums like an idiot and telling fans not to bother if they wanted to see a winner, and the Dolan's have had a history of shedding payroll, and not replacing it.
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Re: All about sports

Postby Jabari » Tue Feb 12, 2013 12:16 pm

Most people want the wealth produced by a society with limited government distributed to them more generously by bigger government.
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Re: All about sports

Postby Klaudandus » Tue Feb 12, 2013 2:06 pm



I'd rather them drop ping pong
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Re: All about sports

Postby Fridmarr » Tue Feb 12, 2013 3:35 pm

Ugh what a terrible decision. I expect wrestling is likely to have a little uptick resulting from the growing popularity of UFC types of leagues.
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