All about sports

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Re: All about sports

Postby halabar » Tue Feb 05, 2013 3:46 pm

Klaudandus wrote:
Flex wrote:
Klaudandus wrote:he doesn't get any flak about it but Tebow does?


He gets tons of flack from it in the DC radio market.The religious but non-Born Again think it is over the top with the common expression being "God doesn't care about football". For me hearing how Born Again people feel about Jesus Lewis' talk is pretty much exactly the same.


Don't have access to the DC Market radio shows. Not really interesting in the DC radio shows, considering I hate both the skins and the nationals...

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Now, to be honest, Tebow's overt expression of religiousness kinda rubs me the wrong way at times, but nowhere near as bad as Lewis...


That's a bit harsh on Tebow, since he's using a good part of his football money towards building an orphanage in the phillipines, if I remember correctly.

You also seem to mock Christians thanking God for anything?

Tebow has put his money and actions forward. I have yet to see Lewis do the same.
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Re: All about sports

Postby Klaudandus » Tue Feb 05, 2013 4:28 pm

I know its Tebow on the pic, and yet it's not a jab at him... in fact, I often give him a free pass, which you can tell as I often say good things about Tebow on this thread -- it's actually more of a knock on Lewis... he comes off as fake

That was actually the real purpose of the pic.

If my google-fu had found a Ray Lewis version of that pic, thanking god for getting scott-free from murder and for winning two superbowls, I'd have used that instead.
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Re: All about sports

Postby halabar » Tue Feb 05, 2013 4:32 pm

Klaudandus wrote:I know its Tebow on the pic, and yet it's not a jab at him... in fact, I often give him a free pass, which you can tell as I often say good things about Tebow on this thread -- it's actually more of a knock on Lewis... he comes off as fake

That was actually the real purpose of the pic.


Agree on Lewis, and many of the other touchdown thankers that are stopped for duis and whatnot in the offseason, and have posses the size of Cleveland.
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Re: All about sports

Postby Flex » Tue Feb 05, 2013 6:55 pm

Klaudandus wrote:If my google-fu had found a Ray Lewis version of that pic, thanking god for getting scott-free from murder and for winning two superbowls, I'd have used that instead.


Lewis was the only person involved in that to get any sort of punishment.

The two people in his entourage that were charged were acquitted because everyone's story was different.
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Re: All about sports

Postby Klaudandus » Tue Feb 05, 2013 8:46 pm

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/mlb/ne ... &eref=sihp

Braun linked to the same clinic A-Roid was using.
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Re: All about sports

Postby Shoju » Wed Feb 06, 2013 7:30 am

Klaudandus wrote:http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/mlb/news/20130205/ryan-braun-florida-clinic-records-peds.ap/?sct=hp_t2_a5&eref=sihp

Braun linked to the same clinic A-Roid was using.


Braun and his lawyers both came out and said that this guy was key in the defense he presented on taintedness.

Curious, does that make it "better" for braun, or worse? I mean. It's one thing to be a cheat, but if you use a cheat to get you out of being busted, what does that say?
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Re: All about sports

Postby halabar » Wed Feb 06, 2013 11:16 am

Shoju wrote:
Klaudandus wrote:http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/mlb/news/20130205/ryan-braun-florida-clinic-records-peds.ap/?sct=hp_t2_a5&eref=sihp

Braun linked to the same clinic A-Roid was using.


Braun and his lawyers both came out and said that this guy was key in the defense he presented on taintedness.

Curious, does that make it "better" for braun, or worse? I mean. It's one thing to be a cheat, but if you use a cheat to get you out of being busted, what does that say?


Yep. It's rather damning to use a cheat to get off.

But here's what people are missing. Braun's admission of using that guy validates the records that the newspaper got. Which means MLB has more evidence that the records are legit. Which means much more trouble for the others named.

I think we are in for another summer of steroids.
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Re: All about sports

Postby Klaudandus » Wed Feb 06, 2013 11:28 am

If you accept Braun's explanation, when he was in his darkest hour -- fighting MLB on a positive drug test -- to gather expertise he went to someone who not only is not a doctor and not licensed to practice medicine, not considered to have expertise in chain of custody issues, but who also had been connected by MLB and the DEA, and known to the players association, to the 2009 bust of Manny Ramirez; it was Bosch's father, Dr. Pedro Bosch, who wrote a prescription for a banned substance to Ramirez.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/mlb/ne ... z2K92oO1hl
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Re: All about sports

Postby Flex » Wed Feb 06, 2013 11:35 am

Did anyone really think Braun was clean after the initial suspension was overturned?
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Re: All about sports

Postby Shoju » Wed Feb 06, 2013 11:42 am

Flex wrote:Did anyone really think Braun was clean after the initial suspension was overturned?


I was holding a slim chance of "hope" that it really was something stupid, and not that he was dirty. It's part of me trying to "reclaim" my belief in the sport of baseball. But, this killed any chance of the sport being clean in my eyes for a very long time.
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Re: All about sports

Postby Klaudandus » Wed Feb 06, 2013 11:44 am

Yeah, I was gonna say that as far as I recall from the huge Braun brouhaha several months ago, the only one that defended Braun was Shoju =P

Although it was more like a Devil's Advocate thing, dealing with the chain of custody, and not actually defending Braun per se.
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Re: All about sports

Postby Shoju » Wed Feb 06, 2013 11:46 am

Klaudandus wrote:Yeah, I was gonna say that as far as I recall from the huge Braun brouhaha several months ago, the only one that defended Braun was Shoju =P


Braun was on a short list of players that I would say "no way!" about. But after this? I just... I can't honestly look at a single ballplayer and say "Yeah, I think they're clean".

When I first heard his explanation, I was like "oh, well that makes sense." but then I was reading another article, and it's just... so unbelievable. What did you go to him for? What expertise? Whatever. Bunch of cheats.
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Re: All about sports

Postby Klaudandus » Wed Feb 06, 2013 11:49 am

Well, like I said, if I recall correctly, the crux of your argument was the chain of custody, the personnel in charge of taking the sample, and the manner it is collected.
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Re: All about sports

Postby Klaudandus » Wed Feb 06, 2013 12:00 pm

Colin Cowherd and Curt Schilling discuss Braun, A-Rod and Biogenesis or whatever it was called
http://espn.go.com/espnradio/play?id=8921054&s=espn
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Re: All about sports

Postby Shoju » Wed Feb 06, 2013 12:15 pm

Klaudandus wrote:Well, like I said, if I recall correctly, the crux of your argument was the chain of custody, the personnel in charge of taking the sample, and the manner it is collected.


Which, I still stand by being a very serious thing. Chain of Custody is the integrity of the system, but I'm not going to get back into that again.

But this? Ugh. This is ridiculous. I just can't believe that this is someone he went to for help on chain of custody. This guy has no expertise in chain of custody, and is little more than a pill peddler.

It's hard to be a realistic sports fan right now, and tell your kids that drugs are bad. How do you explain to a 16 year old gunning for a starting varsity CF spot that doing it "clean" is the right way, when there is so much evidence piling up that shows the best and brightest stars in the game have been anything but clean for longer than the kid has been alive?

How does his coach tell his team that? I hate using the "Think of the kids!" type of lines, but man... This is tough. My son wants to be the Starting CF on Varsity this year. He's got the speed, but he's lacking in arm strength a little, and he could use some more pop at the plate.

If it wasn't for his mother, I'd be really worried about him taking PED's to gain that edge. Thankfully, her junkie lifestyle for the better part of 6 years has made him phobic to take too much Nyquil, let alone anything else. I guess the old adage is true "You're never truly worthless, you can always be used as a bad example"
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Re: All about sports

Postby Klaudandus » Wed Feb 06, 2013 12:17 pm

Yes. Just saying that it confirms that it was getting away with it on a technicality.
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Re: All about sports

Postby halabar » Wed Feb 06, 2013 12:39 pm

Shoju wrote:
Klaudandus wrote:Yeah, I was gonna say that as far as I recall from the huge Braun brouhaha several months ago, the only one that defended Braun was Shoju =P


Braun was on a short list of players that I would say "no way!" about. But after this? I just... I can't honestly look at a single ballplayer and say "Yeah, I think they're clean".

When I first heard his explanation, I was like "oh, well that makes sense." but then I was reading another article, and it's just... so unbelievable. What did you go to him for? What expertise? Whatever. Bunch of cheats.


You giving up on the NFL as well? Or does it not matter then?

Any pro sport may have cheaters now, it has to be taken as a given. The question is, is the testing good enough that fans know that it's kept under control?

While the old school "purity" of baseball was nice, that notion really went out the window with the modern free agent contracts and owners like Loria in FL that don't give a damn about winning.

As for your son, anyone cheating in the minors or college will likely get caught, unless they have a sugar daddy.
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Re: All about sports

Postby Flex » Wed Feb 06, 2013 12:48 pm

I like reading old stories about baseball players you were basically taking meth to get up for the game.
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Re: All about sports

Postby halabar » Wed Feb 06, 2013 12:54 pm

Flex wrote:I like reading old stories about baseball players you were basically taking meth to get up for the game.


Yeah, anything past the 50's or early 60's can't really be counted as clean, unless those greenies that trainers put out in dishes in the late 60s and 70's were really M&Ms.
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Re: All about sports

Postby Shoju » Wed Feb 06, 2013 1:19 pm

For some reason, and I know this is a double standard, I just don't care as much about PED'S in football. Maybe because Football has always been violent and bloody? Maybe because we haven't had someone tear the fabric of the game the way that Canseco did with baseball? Maybe because no one "Super Famous" has been suspended for testing positive? Maybe, because my children have no desire to play football.

As for young kids, especially in High School, There is NO year round testing. They are conditioning now, and there isn't even random testing. Random Testing doesn't being for another 60 ish days. And then it only runs until your team is done in the tournaments. Even then, it isn't a guarantee to be tested even once in a season, since it's run by conferences, not local schools here.

You could juice from August to March, while working in the off season, and it would never be an issue here. Now, keeping that all going during the season would be tough, i don't know the regimens, but 8 months out of the year, there is no accountability, no questions, no anything.
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Re: All about sports

Postby halabar » Wed Feb 06, 2013 1:40 pm

But the notion of baseball being truly clean vanished a long time ago.

So it's ok for the football "warriors" to juice?

This reminds me of all the old farts that still complain about post strike baseball, who supported the owners with no idea of the pockets that the owners were lining. Gimme a break.
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Re: All about sports

Postby Shoju » Wed Feb 06, 2013 1:52 pm

halabar wrote:But the notion of baseball being truly clean vanished a long time ago.

So it's ok for the football "warriors" to juice?

This reminds me of all the old farts that still complain about post strike baseball, who supported the owners with no idea of the pockets that the owners were lining. Gimme a break.


I admitted that it's a double standard. You just don't hear as much about it. Maybe it's the way the league handles it business. You get suspended for PED's, and that's all that's said. It's not just me. Or maybe, It's Because we as a culture just don't care.

To be honest? I don't really want to listen to more stories about PED's. I'm burnt out. I don't care. I'm nauseated by it. I didn't watch ESPN for almost 10 days while the Lance Armstrong interview was going. I didn't want to listen anymore.

I only care about PED"s enough to try and keep my kids away from them. While my kids LOVE Sports, none of them are on their way to careers that would be defined as "athlete". I don't care about them it as much anymore. I've already said, let the ones who are associated with it in the hall, and let the biography and history of the game sort it out when it comes to the MLB.

The Medias coverage of PED's has been exhausting. I only cared to research this new story when Braun's name came up. And only because I had been a "believer" of his story.
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Re: All about sports

Postby Paxen » Wed Feb 06, 2013 2:31 pm

We don't care about football because the NFL is far, far better at handling the media angle. As long as there's no direct evidence that there's widespread cheating, fans turn a blind eye to it. And the NFL knows that.

Given that the NFL is a for-profit corporation, with no external oversight (except lawmakers who have tons of other things to worry about), who really has an interest in digging for dirty secrets? A single reporter? See how well that worked out for David Walsh when he took on Lance Armstrong.
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Re: All about sports

Postby Klaudandus » Wed Feb 06, 2013 4:17 pm

On other MLB News

Brandon Webb to retire, and Chris Carpenter might follow suit, due to injuries.
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Re: All about sports

Postby Klaudandus » Wed Feb 06, 2013 4:44 pm

And an extra twist in the Biogenesis thing
Detroit Tigers shortstop Jhonny Peralta is named in the records of Tony Bosch, the director of the Biogenesis wellness clinic in Coral Gables, Fla., that is the target of an MLB investigation into performance-enhancing drugs, according to sources familiar with the records.

Peralta brings to 12 the number of baseball players connected to Bosch's notes, and adds to one of the two threads that have emerged in the Biogenesis case: Peralta is the fifth client of the ACES agency of Seth and Sam Levinson and with an association with Juan Nunez, a former runner for the agency, to be connected to clinic records.

Previous ACES clients named in reports are Rangers outfielder Nelson Cruz, Nationals pitcher Gio Gonzalez, Mariners catcher Jesus Montero and Blue Jays outfielder Melky Cabrera. Nunez was banned by baseball after he was tied to Cabrera's attempt to stage a web site selling a fake PED.

Peralta does not appear to be directly tied to PEDs in the records, as was the case with Montero. The Levinsons referred comment to an attorney for Peralta, Barry Boss, who released this statement on behalf of Peralta: "I have never used performance enhancing drugs. Period. Anybody who says otherwise is lying."

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/mlb/ne ... z2KAKhk1tY
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