All about sports

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Re: All about sports

Postby Klaudandus » Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:15 pm

Teranoid wrote:The HoF is a museum of Baseball. You can't fucking ignore a segment of its history just because "oh he took steroids".

What a joke.


Only if we label those players as jokes in the process, then I don't mind having a plaque with their likeness in cooperstown.

The joke section, starting with Mcgwire, Bonds, Clemens and A-Rod.

That said... fuck the writers... it's more of a travesty that Jack Morris is not in the HoF than any of the roiders you apparently want in.
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Re: All about sports

Postby Teranoid » Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:30 pm

That and how did Biggio fall less than 40 votes short?

And I don't care if they got in. I just think it's absolutely ridiculous that they're basically refusing to acknowledge the fact that this is part of the history of the sport positive or negative.
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Re: All about sports

Postby Klaudandus » Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:32 pm

yeah, fuck baseball writers.
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Re: All about sports

Postby Teranoid » Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:33 pm

Oh and 1 writer voted for Aaron Sele.

Like I said before. What a joke.
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Re: All about sports

Postby Klaudandus » Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:37 pm

Teranoid wrote:Oh and 1 writer voted for Aaron Sele.

Like I said before. What a joke.


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God, it's been ages since I heard that name.
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Re: All about sports

Postby Fridmarr » Wed Jan 09, 2013 1:22 pm

Shoju wrote:
Fridmarr wrote:The HoF voting is a sham. The voters tend to act like the steroid era started with the McGwire and Sosa homerun chase, but it had been going strong for at least 20 years before that. EPSN had some idiot on last night, who actually has a vote, talking about how methamphetamines aren't a PED because they don't add bulk or improve your eyesight, so he was fine for voting for folks that took them...but not PEDs. It probably doesn't help that the voters comprise the most inept media category in America.

I don't think Clemens or Bonds are close, last year they were in the 40% area if I remember right, so they won't be getting in until there is a shift in thinking about PED use. It's likely that no one will get in this year. Do you know where Morris was vote wise?



Who the heck was saying that? I hope it's not one of the two Baseball Writers I actually like....
Not sure who he was, he was on with Tim Kurkjian (one of the few I like) and Buster Olney. Kurkjian had the balls to say, that he did the best he could with his ballot, but his ballot was still horrible, and everyone's ballot was horrible because the process is bullshit.

Of course this dude responded that his ballot was "right".

Teranoid wrote:The HoF is a museum of Baseball. You can't fucking ignore a segment of its history just because "oh he took steroids".

What a joke.


Well the same dude had a response to pretty much that exact question. Though I think his other point (re: PEDs) is pretty stupid, his point on this is pretty solid.

The HOF list is a portion of the museum, there are plenty things in the museum not related to the HOF, even of banned players like Rose. To that end, the accomplishments of these players are there along with their stories and paraphernalia . They aren't ignored by the museum, they just didn't garner HOF recognition, but that puts them on the same list as nearly every other player. To suggest that their accomplishments are being ignored would mean that the HOF has always ignored almost everybody's accomplishments, since very few players will make it.
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Re: All about sports

Postby Klaudandus » Wed Jan 09, 2013 2:41 pm

One of the things that bother me is that if these baseball writers had actually done their job as journalists, they wouldnt be writing a bunch of articles bitching about having to vote for steroid users.

Although they dont piss me off as much as those writers that actually write articles defending the steroid users...
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Re: All about sports

Postby bldavis » Wed Jan 09, 2013 4:30 pm

but to be competative you HAVE to use steroids!
:roll:

i view it the same way i view the Armstrong doping thing
if they were found AT THE TIME to have been using substances banned AT THE TIME, why were they allowed to compete?
if they werent found to be using them, what is the big deal?
most sports are riddled with drug use...

ffs, if you are going to strip people of titles and limit their HoF chances based on history and shit you dig up years later, why even bother have a HoF or to give out said titles
the point is you okay-ed them to compete, they did what they felt was needed to compete at the level they did
you didnt want those substances used, you should have banned them earlier and had better testing then i guess
ban them now and stop thier use in the future - ok everyone changes to something that is still legal
its just a big arms race

yes i would prefer it if no doping ever happened...but that wont happen.
so why take away achievements or keep someone out of the hall of fame just due to what had happened? i say keep them in it, but just note that they were LATER found to have used substances that were LATER banned or that were undetected at the time
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Re: All about sports

Postby Teranoid » Wed Jan 09, 2013 4:48 pm

They're so afraid of putting someone in and then years later it comes out they did roids and then OH NO MY JOURNALISTIC INTEGRITY HAS BEEN BESMIRCHED!
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Re: All about sports

Postby bldavis » Wed Jan 09, 2013 5:02 pm

so what if they used roids
if they had been caught at the time, they would have been punished
if they werent caught, great they beat the system..just add a notation to their listing
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Re: All about sports

Postby halabar » Wed Jan 09, 2013 6:09 pm

bldavis wrote:so what if they used roids
if they had been caught at the time, they would have been punished
if they werent caught, great they beat the system..just add a notation to their listing


Because they make a farce of the records. However, we'll never really know all of who was enhanced, who just took andro, and who was juiced to the gills. Especially pitchers. It's a mess with no right answer.

Steroid issue aside, the voting process is a total clusterfuck, and the writers are the biggest cesspool od self righteous prima donnas this side of dog show judges. When you have writers turning in blank ballots, voting for friends or hometown favorites (Sele), or not using all the available slots, plus the judgmental (he's not a first rounder) it's clear that the writers are far too swayed with their own self importance.

Given the new candidates coming next year, it's quite likely no one gets voted in again.
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Re: All about sports

Postby bldavis » Wed Jan 09, 2013 6:32 pm

the records are a clusterfuck as is
that is why i say screw it, let them all in and just note that this guy used roids and leave it at that

again i point at the lance armstrong issue
if he had been caught at the time during the race or shortly after, hell yes strip him
but dont do it 5+ years LATER

rules change, banned substances change, and if you are going to strip someone of a title without proof he used PEDs or blood boosters, why even give them out?
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Re: All about sports

Postby Fridmarr » Wed Jan 09, 2013 6:40 pm

halabar wrote:Given the new candidates coming next year, it's quite likely no one gets voted in again.

I can't imagine Greg Maddux not making it in. I think he's eligible next year.
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Re: All about sports

Postby halabar » Wed Jan 09, 2013 7:41 pm

Fridmarr wrote:
halabar wrote:Given the new candidates coming next year, it's quite likely no one gets voted in again.

I can't imagine Greg Maddux not making it in. I think he's eligible next year.


I'll bet you he doesn't get in first round, the baseball writers being the petulant group they are...

But there are enough deserving candidates that I doubt any get in.
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Re: All about sports

Postby Fridmarr » Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:18 pm

I think statistically he's like a top 10 pitcher of all time. The writers are...well everything we all already said, but I have to admit I'd be surprised if he didn't make it. I guess I shouldn't underestimate their stupidity though.
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Re: All about sports

Postby Shoju » Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:45 am

After this story in which Howard Bryant talks about sending his ballot in blank, people are calling for his, and any other writer who returned a blank ballot, vote to be taken away in the future.

Well, taking away someone's vote is well, fascist. What country are you in, anyway? Perhaps you should study civics instead of baseball.

Really? Fascist? I... must have missed that one in the definition. It isn't Fascism to remove a privilege offered to someone. It isn't Fascist when I ground my son for being a smart ass. It isn't Fascist when you are charged with contempt of court for being a dick. And it certainly isn't Fascist when your vote is taken away for being a smug asshole who thinks that they are the moral authority for a museum that is supposed to be about the history of a sporting event, accessible by the fans.

But, that's really where this all falls apart. We rely on Sports Writers to build a Hall of Fame for the accomplishments of players. And we do it, with an awful lot of the Hall of Fames. It isn't former players. It isn't Coaches. It isn't the fans. It's the writers. Who, I guess, are supposed to have some "super awesome gift of knowledge" because they are writing about it.

Ok, so I'll give you, that on average, the sports writer is going to have more knowledge of the game than the "average" fan. Maybe they are "better" than having the average fan doing the voting.

But the Players don't get involved, until it's an outright travesty that someone isn't in the hall. The "Senior" selection committee and so forth. That just doesn't seem right.

And like Jayson Stark said (He is probably my favorite Sports Writer) We need to decide what the Hall of Fame is supposed to be.

Personally? It's the history of the game. The "members" of the hall should be the greatest to play the game. They (the hall and voters) can claim that character is supposed to matter, but Ty Cobb, was a racist who stabbed a black man, and severely beat another, and Cy Young and Honus Wagner were both open about their racist tendencies. All 3 are in the Hall. Tom Yawkey, the owner of the Boston Red Sox, and openly bigoted, was the last owner to integrate in the MLB. He was enshrined.

Daryl Strawberry and Doc Gooden, both rampant Cocaine users, appeared on ballots.
Gaylord Perry admitted to cheating by doctoring the ball. He's enshrined.

But yet, we have, with no rules structure, had a silent agreement that anyone linked, mentioned, rumored, and "thought" to have used Roids/HGH, well... We're going to keep em out.

Yeah. That "Character" is working out great. I didn't even make a case for the gambler, or Blacksox. The Hall of Fame is a mess, Stark's right about that.

Fascist. That's what Howard Bryant said. Is there a statement that more accurately sums up the disconnect between the writers, and the fans who patronize the hall of fame?
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Re: All about sports

Postby Klaudandus » Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:52 am

http://www.csnbayarea.com/blog/andrew-b ... ds-and-hof

also worth reading... if only to show why i hate most of the writers...

Funny how he votes for Clemens and Bonds but not for McGwire...
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Re: All about sports

Postby Klaudandus » Thu Jan 10, 2013 1:22 pm

Image

*facedesk*
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Re: All about sports

Postby Flex » Thu Jan 10, 2013 1:34 pm

I get what they were going for with that line of discussion, it is just the dumbest way to ever ask it. I'm sure there is a decent chunk of Viking Fandom who think Ponder is a pussy who let down his team by not going out there with an injured passing arm. There was a good bit of discussion last year about how much Cutler let his team down by not playing through the injury.
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Re: All about sports

Postby Shoju » Thu Jan 10, 2013 1:47 pm

Browns are currently interviewing Ken Whisenhunt. Again.

Because anytime you can hire a coach that lost 12 in a row, lost 58-0, AND started 4 Qb's in the same season, you just HAVE GOT TO DO IT CLEVELAND>
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Re: All about sports

Postby Klaudandus » Thu Jan 10, 2013 1:56 pm

I get it too. But like you said, it's just the way it was phrased.

I get that Cutler got a lot of flack, and as bad as it sounds, some of that flack is deserved... Cutler is known for having a notoriously bad body language...

However, at the same time, everyone could see R♿3 was a shell of himself, could barely walk and things like that... so no one would have blamed him or shanahan if they sit him and put cousins instead, specially since Cousins actually played well when shoved into the spotlight weeks prior, including a comeback victory against the ravens.

I have no doubt that the flack cutler got was in Bobby 3-sticks mind, but I think he also knew he would not have gotten that flack... I'm think he was running on bravado... trying to be the hero...

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Well, the Jags fired Mularkey... I guess they really want to go with Tebow time!
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Re: All about sports

Postby Shoju » Thu Jan 10, 2013 2:17 pm

Klaudandus wrote:I get it too. But like you said, it's just the way it was phrased.

I get that Cutler got a lot of flack, and as bad as it sounds, some of that flack is deserved... Cutler is known for having a notoriously bad body language...

However, at the same time, everyone could see R♿3 was a shell of himself, could barely walk and things like that... so no one would have blamed him or shanahan if they sit him and put cousins instead, specially since Cousins actually played well when shoved into the spotlight weeks prior, including a comeback victory against the ravens.

I have no doubt that the flack cutler got was in Bobby 3-sticks mind, but I think he also knew he would not have gotten that flack... I'm think he was running on bravado... trying to be the hero...


After learning more about Cutler, his Diabetes, and how hard game days can be for him,

eat 2hrs before game, test 1hr before game, at kickoff, after 2nd series, at mid of 2nd Q, at halftime, mid third, mid 4th, and after game and then make sure to take insulin / eat as needed to keep his Blood Sugar under control (in 4-6 hours, that's almost 2 days worth of testing, plus, any corrective action that needs take)

I give him a pass on body language, and the injury thing is such a non issue for me. He was hurt, confirmed hurt (grade II MCL Sprain/Tear)
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Re: All about sports

Postby Jabari » Thu Jan 10, 2013 2:23 pm

Shoju wrote:Browns are currently interviewing Ken Whisenhunt. Again.

Because anytime you can hire a coach that lost 12 in a row, lost 58-0, AND started 4 Qb's in the same season, you just HAVE GOT TO DO IT CLEVELAND>


Hey now, Whis is a good coach!

(As long as you have Kurt Warner for your QB :wink: )


Edit: The guy who got screwed the most by the HoF vote was Kenny Lofton...
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Re: All about sports

Postby Flex » Thu Jan 10, 2013 2:40 pm

The NFL you're one "I'm injured coach" away from losing your job if your sub plays well, just look at the 49ers QB situation. Id argue that the 49ers aren't a noticeably better team with Kaepernick at QB over Smith and there have been some games where CK has been pretty bad, but Smith is done in SF. Heck, Baltimore is probably one Ray Rice injury (or playoff fumble) away from him never playing for them again.
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Re: All about sports

Postby Klaudandus » Thu Jan 10, 2013 6:54 pm

Well, so much for Tebow with the Jags

Also, it seems ND's Kelly and Lovie Smith are talking to the Smeagols.
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