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LFR funnies, MMO Champ

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Re: LFR funnies, MMO Champ

Postby Darielle » Tue Sep 20, 2011 1:01 am

Highest parses on Baleroc-25 involve Ranged who are allowed to stand wherever they want and not have anything to do with crystals (so very limited movement) while (mostly) having Legendaries which give them 20% more dps and have been bugged at various point (e.g. the ELemental Shaman who had 100% uptime on the Theralion's Mirror because of some interaction with Dragonwrath).
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Re: LFR funnies, MMO Champ

Postby Sagara » Tue Sep 20, 2011 1:04 am

Then again, median should help minimize outliers. This statistic is based on which period? Last 2 weeks?
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Re: LFR funnies, MMO Champ

Postby KysenMurrin » Tue Sep 20, 2011 1:26 am

Darielle wrote:Highest parses on Baleroc-25 involve Ranged who are allowed to stand wherever they want and not have anything to do with crystals (so very limited movement) while (mostly) having Legendaries which give them 20% more dps and have been bugged at various point (e.g. the ELemental Shaman who had 100% uptime on the Theralion's Mirror because of some interaction with Dragonwrath).

A good melee shouldn't lose any dps on Baleroc due to moving for crystals, unless their damage reduction cooldown takes a GCD (glancing at Shamanistic Rage...), so the melee and ranged should both be in ideal conditions on that fight.
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Re: LFR funnies, MMO Champ

Postby Sagara » Tue Sep 20, 2011 1:46 am

Further, we're talking about high-end results, so the melee will also probably be standing doing nothing else for meter's sake.
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Re: LFR funnies, MMO Champ

Postby Timbalcrash » Tue Sep 20, 2011 2:14 am

I am a little surprised by LFR difficulty mode Blizzard introduced.

If understood correctly, the LFR does not share lockouts with either 10 or 25 man normal/heroic raids.
The loot will be better compared to the new 5man dungeons but slightly worse compared to 10 or 25 man normal raid.

When the 10/25 man shared lockout was introduced, one argument was, that Blizzard did not want to feel players that they have to raid both to stay competetive.

Now the LFR loot is comparable in relative quality to the WotLK 10man dungeon loot.

Does the argument above still stand then?
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Re: LFR funnies, MMO Champ

Postby Sagara » Tue Sep 20, 2011 2:20 am

My take on this is they're pushing LFR more as an alternative to LFG, or maybe a step up.

The problem with 10/25 lockouts was that people felt obligated to do both the 25 and the 10-man raids to stay competitive. The logic jump they most probably did is: "like LFG, there's no true limit to how often you can do it. Therefore, they won't feel the obligation as keenly as it happened in 10/25 shared lockout, because there will be no "limit" to how often one can LFR".

I'm not certain it is a CORRECT logic jump, but that sounds logical.
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Re: LFR funnies, MMO Champ

Postby KysenMurrin » Tue Sep 20, 2011 2:25 am

Note that they're saying a low level version of T13 will be available through LFR, and will be just as valid as the higher ilevel versions for gaining set bonuses. People are still going to wind up feeling obligated to grind these so they can complete their 4-set early.
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Re: LFR funnies, MMO Champ

Postby Sagara » Tue Sep 20, 2011 2:38 am

Yeah. Not a fan: I'm really afraid of *having* to pour more time in the game to keep up.

Which is pretty much screwed up if that's what they tried to avoid...
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Re: LFR funnies, MMO Champ

Postby Mannstein » Tue Sep 20, 2011 4:06 am

Darielle wrote:I think the main reason they seem to be looking at buffing melee is just plain perception.
Melee can absolutely compete and do really well, right now.
This melee buff thing is like their way of introducing the perception

See this is the issue with personal experience or observation... Everyone has a example of their own.
Based on my observation and my guild exp. I would say that at the end of T11, melle were worst than ranged, but at T12 i see 5melle in the top10.
BUT
If i look back we used to raid with 10melle and 7ranged in T11 and now we raid with 6/7melle...
So?
Our melle were "triaged" and now only the guild's best of each class still raid... myself i'm "allways" bellow the rogues and warriors... but we allready lost 1warrior and 1rogue who couldn't quite get it.
TLDR: Goodranged>Goodmelle>Regularranged>regularmelle

P.S. If Blizzar want's to implement that then they should leverage all the melles, shammy and retri should be equal to rogue and warrior (Can't comment on the DK's)
P.P.S. This is all based on personal experience. :P
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Re: LFR funnies, MMO Champ

Postby Jaitee » Tue Sep 20, 2011 6:30 am

Sabindeus wrote:
Malthrax wrote:Legendary weapons could *DROP* during the 1st tier of raiding in an expansion, and gradually grow in power over the course of the expansion. Maybe they're orange the entire time; maybe they're just really good purples for the first 2-3 tiers of raiding before finally "ripening"


They specifically don't want any gear to do that


i think they dont want gear growing in power between expansions which is a really good thing how would you feel if you where a ret pally that got sulfuras back in vanilla (ignoring the fact that ret was horrible dps back then) and blizz made sulfuras scale with level and also modified the stats to keep with the times then for 5ish years you would have been using the exact same weapon

however having a peice of loot grow over the course of an expansion is actually a pretty cool idea imho
perhaps a class quest for a relic that in t11 would have been 346 when you first got it and you get a quest to get some item off a boss in t11 reg and upgrade it to 359 then heroic to 372 etc
this would allow some cool class quests and would free us up from having to spend 960 VP each teir on an item that is to the best of my knowledge the smallest upgrade you can get
for non relic users they could get something equivalent but without the upgrade each teir (or perhaps do the same with wands)

got a little side tracked i think an interesting questline for a legendary would be that we start it one teir and finish it in the next for example in this expansion we could have started the legendary staff quest in T11 and gotten a 359 and then a 372 staff come into firelands and finish the quest off to get a 378 staff then the legendary
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Re: LFR funnies, MMO Champ

Postby Malthrax » Tue Sep 20, 2011 6:44 am

KysenMurrin wrote:Note that they're saying a low level version of T13 will be available through LFR, and will be just as valid as the higher ilevel versions for gaining set bonuses. People are still going to wind up feeling obligated to grind these so they can complete their 4-set early.


I know this is going to cause waves, but... LFR shouldn't drop tier pieces, unless the pieces are so low in iLvl that its a net-loss going for the 2-pc/4-pc bonus.

Why? Because if LFR is a way to "easily" farm up missing tier pieces, or obtain tier pieces early, to complete set bonuses that is going to result in a shit-ton of the hardcore rolling in LFR where they do not want to be in the first place and, IMO, where they do not belong.
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Re: LFR funnies, MMO Champ

Postby Archeth » Tue Sep 20, 2011 10:15 am

Except they don't really belong into heroic PUGs either but to keep the dungeon and soon raid finders stocked with players of all skill- and gear levels, it would make sense to have incentives even in the new easy mode raids.
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Re: LFR funnies, MMO Champ

Postby yappo » Tue Sep 20, 2011 10:15 am

Jaitee wrote:
however having a peice of loot grow over the course of an expansion is actually a pretty cool idea imho
perhaps a class quest for a relic that in t11 would have been 346 when you first got it and you get a quest to get some item off a boss in t11 reg and upgrade it to 359 then heroic to 372 etc
this would allow some cool class quests and would free us up from having to spend 960 VP each teir on an item that is to the best of my knowledge the smallest upgrade you can get
for non relic users they could get something equivalent but without the upgrade each teir (or perhaps do the same with wands)


This is a very good idea.

Now, I haven't really 'played' more than two toons (belf and human) in the sense of enjoying the levelling experience rather than get it over and done with as fast as possible. Until around lvl 20:ish part of the experience is making you becoming a legendary person. There are a few of those quests tied to the max level of each expansion.

So, in that respect it makes sense to have a 'red thread' running through each expansion where you struggle to be one of the movers and shakers even from an in-game lore point of view. Of course it's only an illusion as just about every interested max level toon can do it, but part of the game is upholding that illusion.

After all, even the most lore uninterested player still comment the visual experience, and a visual experience in itself is nothing but an illusion created to hide the underlying number-crunching logic behind encounters.
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Re: LFR funnies, MMO Champ

Postby Malthrax » Tue Sep 20, 2011 10:25 am

Archeth wrote:Except they don't really belong into heroic PUGs either but to keep the dungeon and soon raid finders stocked with players of all skill- and gear levels, it would make sense to have incentives even in the new easy mode raids.


You're right, they don't belong there either, and from what I've seen, they hate "having to" be there. And they tend to take their frustration at being "forced" to be there out on everyone else, especially those who don't perform at a competency level they're accustomed to.

Any kind of incentive to coerce high end players into LFR will simply proliferate the same culture-clash that LFD sees day in and day out.
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Re: LFR funnies, MMO Champ

Postby halabar » Tue Sep 20, 2011 11:14 am

There was clarification today....

LFR will drop a lower-level of tier, but it will drop tier.
All three levels of tier can be combined to make set bonuses.
10-man drop rates for tokens will be improved.

So we are going back to ToC with three levels of tier.

Nice thing is LFR will give you another path to get tier, which is why they are probably removing it from valor vendors.
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