LFR funnies, MMO Champ

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Re: LFR funnies, MMO Champ

Postby Flex » Mon Sep 19, 2011 9:24 am

Dantriges wrote:Well this whole legendary thing surprises me.

The zone buff is odd. Perhaps Blizzard is unsure if melee are so far behind to warrant a complete overhaul and just want to check the numbers or the encounters in general are melee unfriendly and they want to compensate.


The summary mentions a raid zone buff while the interview doesn't mention that at all it just mentions raid buffs buffing melee more than ranged. Could be something simple like buffing Sunder and increasing the power of Might and Battle Shout.

Also, the fact that they're revisiting my favorite quest chain from the revamped 1-60 content makes me happy.

And the End of Times 5 man looks great.
Last edited by Flex on Mon Sep 19, 2011 10:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: LFR funnies, MMO Champ

Postby twinkfist » Mon Sep 19, 2011 10:09 am

"Much like the experience in the five-player content of Icecrown Citadel, players must quest through these dungeons sequentially to unlock access to them in the Dungeon Finder. You'll also be afforded the opportunity for all-new epic loot, including new dungeon sets. While these sets aren't broken down by class and contain no set bonuses, they offer cohesive aesthetic looks for each armor type: cloth, leather, mail, and plate. These set pieces can be taken from the grasps of defeated bosses in each of the new Heroic dungeons"

from mmo-champion. so epic dungeon sets? won't be class specific...but armor specific. cloth, leather, mail, plate. that could be interesting.
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Re: LFR funnies, MMO Champ

Postby Treck » Mon Sep 19, 2011 10:13 am

Skye1013 wrote:
Treck wrote:But melee are not far behind.
Atleast rogues and warriors are very capable of beating the casters on a fight like Baleroc.
And if they are not, then they are eather undergeared or outskilled.

And this is based on what... your personal experience vs the thousands of guild's data that Blizz gets daily?

Blizzard doesnt take logs on "thousands of guilds".
Ever lost an achievement cuz it was bugged, even tho you did it? (we lost both world first glory in cata cuz of that)
Blizzard has no way of going back and checking what happened and what didnt (they can check if you were on the kill, but thats about it) so where would they suddenly get the resources to magicly log every raid to see the differance?
Sure they do their "testing" or whatever it entails, but every guild is different.

Is EVERYONE but me saying melee cant compete?
Im speaking from both observation and with personal experience.
Melee can compete, not saying they are winning every time, or loosing every time, its just that they CAN be high just like the casters.
And if thats not the case for "casual" guilds, then whats the differance?
Are they forgetting some melee raidbuff?
Are they just not as good? and casters easier to do high dps than melee?
And if thats the case, should they balance the game around people not beeing that good? That would completely break it for top guilds.

I just looked at 20 completely random 25man Baleroc kills (10on normal and 10on hc).
I saw a pretty wide veriety of dpsers "topping" the meters.
Suprisingly few was arcane mages (i guess those topping the worldwide ranks getting chain PI/tricks)
But a lot of warriors, and a lot of rogues were up there.
Some elemental shamans, a warlock or 2, hunters in rare cases, but out of 16/20 random logs, top 5 were always atleast 3 melee.
Whoever is #1 doesnt always matter, as some had legendarys etc, and sometimes the guild makes an effort to push one person to insane dps by any means nessecary.
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Re: LFR funnies, MMO Champ

Postby Flex » Mon Sep 19, 2011 10:50 am

Reading through the other interviews this is what I found about the melee change from the Tankspot interview

L: Any major class changes we should be expecting in 4.3?

GS: We are going to do a kind of a raid melee buff across the board. We're gonna take the attack power buff and have it apply more to melee attack power than ranged attack power. On a target dummy melee and ranged DPS is pretty comparable, but in the encounters over and over, melee players come to us and are like, “Why am I here? We could do better with another Hunter or Warlock.” And we're sensitive to that, so we want to make sure that melee feel like they have a place, and we're gonna do that by making sure that, when situations are optimal for them, when they have, say a Baleroc fight or something where there's not a lot of movement, not a lot of adds, that the melee really shine on those fights, because we know there will be plenty of other opportunities for everyone else to shine.


So it just sounds like they're reworking the few melee buffs brought to the raid.
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Re: LFR funnies, MMO Champ

Postby Treck » Mon Sep 19, 2011 10:58 am

I thought so to, but they also said it was going to be specific for the DW raid.
So how thats going to work out i dont know.
Maybe agi is more powerfull in the presence of DW!?
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Re: LFR funnies, MMO Champ

Postby Malthrax » Mon Sep 19, 2011 11:01 am

Treck wrote:I thought so to, but they also said it was going to be specific for the DW raid.
So how thats going to work out i dont know.
Maybe agi is more powerfull in the presence of DW!?


They could just boost STR & AGI melee AP coefficient; give 2.2AP per str/agi instead of 2.0
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Re: LFR funnies, MMO Champ

Postby Flex » Mon Sep 19, 2011 11:03 am

Treck wrote:I thought so to, but they also said it was going to be specific for the DW raid.
So how thats going to work out i dont know.
Maybe agi is more powerfull in the presence of DW!?


I thought it was more pronounced in raids without affecting solo/pvp play.
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Re: LFR funnies, MMO Champ

Postby Treck » Mon Sep 19, 2011 11:13 am

Well, they specificly want them to NOT get buffed much in arena/bgs, while they are more dependant on those stats in pve than pvp, people do still gem for str/agi in pvp dont they? meaning that they would get stronger in any case, if its going to change much however, i dont know.

It might also be something like might giving more AP than currently, horn giving more agi/str, and maybe cat buff increasing critt by more.
That way the differance will be very small in arena/bgs, but in a raid its going to be everyone who benefits from it, will get it.

Im leaning more towards raidbuffs beeing stronger than simply boosting the coefficients.
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Re: LFR funnies, MMO Champ

Postby Amirya » Mon Sep 19, 2011 11:18 am

Does anyone else feel that legendaries aren't really, well, legendary anymore? There's what, 9 of them that have existed in game, and we're in the midst of expansion 4?

My druid has managed to get a start on the current legendary staff, but frankly, I'm not going to bother with it. It's not worth it.

Also, MeleePlus Radiance just sounds like a bad idea. "We'll do what we want, then just radiance what needs to be fixed later."
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Re: LFR funnies, MMO Champ

Postby Flex » Mon Sep 19, 2011 11:21 am

Amirya wrote:Also, MeleePlus Radiance just sounds like a bad idea. "We'll do what we want, then just radiance what needs to be fixed later."


It is like you didn't even read the quotes about this change.
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Re: LFR funnies, MMO Champ

Postby Amirya » Mon Sep 19, 2011 11:23 am

You're absolutely right, I recant that. It sounds like a bloody brilliant idea!
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Re: LFR funnies, MMO Champ

Postby Flex » Mon Sep 19, 2011 11:23 am

Treck wrote:It might also be something like might giving more AP than currently, horn giving more agi/str, and maybe cat buff increasing critt by more.
That way the differance will be very small in arena/bgs, but in a raid its going to be everyone who benefits from it, will get it.


Which is basically what I posted previously.

10% AP might become something like 15% melee AP/10% ranged AP
Sunder effects might get a boost to 16% or so.
SoE: 1000str/600Agi since agi melee still get 1AP from Str and it wont affect hunters as much.
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Re: LFR funnies, MMO Champ

Postby Darielle » Mon Sep 19, 2011 11:37 am

I think the main reason they seem to be looking at buffing melee is just plain perception.

Melee can absolutely compete and do really well, right now. But with that said, players get perceptions based on thigns like fight design - when 3 fights heavily favour multi dotting, Shadow Priests and Boomkins and Locks get some huge benefits. People complain that it's hard to see things like traps in a 25-man raid (I have never ever understood this complaint as a Kitty - 10-man, 25-man, more melee, less melee, dodging bad is the exact same. You either tunnel vision or you don't) when there's more melee. People complain that ranged are favourable for air phases. People complain that what melee used to have (interrupts) is being taken over by Shaman and tanks. People complain that fight mechanics that "require X ranged" favour ranged (even though the reason they favour ranged and therefore require X ranged is because it would be unfair if those mechanics targetted melee)

This melee buff thing is like their way of introducing the perception "Yes, all of this is true, and fight design can let ranged get "special cases", so we're going to buff melee numbers which will let melee push ahead during parts of the fight where you're on the boss and bursting - and THAT's what melee is for", as opposed to actually feeling that say, Warriors can't put out competitive numbers.
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Re: LFR funnies, MMO Champ

Postby Flex » Mon Sep 19, 2011 11:41 am

How come no one asked about elemental shaman T12 2piece becoming a talent?

I'd imagine it would be pretty impossible for two gear slots and a 4 piece bonus to provide as much DPS as the potential DPS that this bonus provides.

To put it in perspective on 10 man normal Beth'tilac burn phase our Elemental shaman does 21.6K DPS, toss in his elemental and he does 26.3K DPS. Basically going from worst to first.
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Re: LFR funnies, MMO Champ

Postby Teranoid » Mon Sep 19, 2011 11:55 am

Flex wrote:How come no one asked about elemental shaman T12 2piece becoming a talent?

I'd imagine it would be pretty impossible for two gear slots and a 4 piece bonus to provide as much DPS as the potential DPS that this bonus provides.

To put it in perspective on 10 man normal Beth'tilac burn phase our Elemental shaman does 21.6K DPS, toss in his elemental and he does 26.3K DPS. Basically going from worst to first.


Because we're used to being completely ignored by devs for tiers at a time?
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