Massive Firelands Nerfs Starting Next Week

Anything, including off-topic posts

Moderators: Fridmarr, Worldie, Aergis, Sabindeus, PsiVen

Re: Massive Firelands Nerfs Starting Next Week

Postby Klaudandus » Tue Sep 13, 2011 6:46 am

Treck wrote:
You know what I noticed? Nobody panics when things go according to plan. Even if the plan is horrifying. If tomorrow I tell the press that like a gang banger will get shot, or a truckload of soldiers will be blown up, nobody panics, because it's all, part of the plan. But when I say that one little old mayor will die, well then everyone loses their minds!

Quoted since its the truth!


Here we go~
The Element of Forum Hyperbole
Image
---
Flüttershy - Draenei Protection Paladin, Aerie Peak
Klaudandus - BE Protection Paladin, Feathermoon (Semi-retired)
User avatar
Klaudandus
 
Posts: 11217
Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2009 7:08 am
Location: Texas' Armpit

Re: Massive Firelands Nerfs Starting Next Week

Postby Malthrax » Tue Sep 13, 2011 6:49 am

Treck wrote:
I can understand them nerfing normalmodes, IF they feel it should be puggable,


Unfortunately, Cataclysm's guild-centric focus, coupled with only a single raid lockout per toon per week, pretty much negates the ability to PUG much of anything.

Nobody PUGs, since PUGing doesn't benefit their precious guild.
Nobody PUGs, since they're already locked to their guild's one and only run for the week.
Nobody PUGs, since alts are already committed to guild alt-runs.


Blizzard... Y U SO BIPOLAR? Y U NO MAEK UP UR MIND?

There's really no need to nerf Firelands yet. Hell, they could crank the difficulty up a few notches, and it would have next to no impact on the ability for uber-casuals to PUG raid content and get those completion percentages up.
User avatar
Malthrax
 
Posts: 729
Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2009 11:23 am

Re: Massive Firelands Nerfs Starting Next Week

Postby Malthrax » Tue Sep 13, 2011 6:53 am

Nikachelle wrote:
KysenMurrin wrote:
Bandit2568 wrote:We didn't nerf T11 heroics so why gets T12 heroics nerfed.

I suspect they looked at their data gathering for how many people ran Heroic T11 content post-4.2.

Didn't help that they also nerfed valor points coming from those heroic bosses.


Why would anyone want to run that old, dusty, boring Heroic T11 for a ton of shiite gear, when they can go throw themselves at Shannox for a few hours (days? weeks?) and get a single piece of shiney new i378?

/sarcasm
User avatar
Malthrax
 
Posts: 729
Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2009 11:23 am

Re: Massive Firelands Nerfs Starting Next Week

Postby Passionario » Tue Sep 13, 2011 7:17 am

Clearly, they should have just used the same solution as last time:

By now you’ve seen that the new Ethereal NPCs and the revamped Darkmoon Faire are on the PTR, featuring all-new transmogrification and Void Storage mechanics, updated replicas of the classic sets, and new horses for worgen players to ride.

You may be asking, "where's Deathwing?”

Our goal with each major patch release, and especially with each expansion, is to learn from the past and use that knowledge to improve the game as we move forward. One of our biggest regrets in the pacing of Wrath of the Lich King was the Crusaders' Coliseum. The Trial of the Champion 10- and 25-player raid was released while many raiders were still busy with Ulduar, which meant a premature end to Ulduar raiding -- and a lot of players didn't get a chance to experience all of Ulduar's content during the normal expansion progression.

Having learned that lesson in pacing from Wrath of the Lich King, we don’t feel Cataclysm needs a new raid tier just yet. We’re close, though, and Deathwing's Lair will be part of patch 4.4, which is expected to hit the PTR very soon after 4.3 goes live.

One of our long-standing development goals has been to release more regular content updates for you to enjoy. Our plan is to package features like raids, dungeons, and daily quest hubs into smaller content updates and release them as soon as possible, rather than wait and release them as large but infrequent updates.

This new flexible approach to updates allows us to release content like Transmogrification and Darkmoon Faire so that you'll have more challenges to overcome while we make the shadowflames of Neltharion even hotter and the final showdown with the Aspect of Death even more climactic.

Development for both patches is currently well in progress.
If you are not the flame, you're the fuel.
User avatar
Passionario
 
Posts: 3373
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 2:52 am

Re: Massive Firelands Nerfs Starting Next Week

Postby Shoju » Tue Sep 13, 2011 8:10 am

Klaudandus wrote:
Treck wrote:
You know what I noticed? Nobody panics when things go according to plan. Even if the plan is horrifying. If tomorrow I tell the press that like a gang banger will get shot, or a truckload of soldiers will be blown up, nobody panics, because it's all, part of the plan. But when I say that one little old mayor will die, well then everyone loses their minds!

Quoted since its the truth!


Here we go~



This is OT, but in the current train of thought.

In PuGs, whenever I pull a boss, it always starts with the same line.

[/p or /raid] And, Here. We. Go.
User avatar
Shoju
 
Posts: 6388
Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 7:15 am

Re: Massive Firelands Nerfs Starting Next Week

Postby Sabindeus » Tue Sep 13, 2011 8:13 am

I think if I were still raiding, I'd be pissed
Image
Turn In, an NPC interaction automator - http://wow.curse.com/downloads/wow-addo ... rn-in.aspx
User avatar
Sabindeus
Moderator
 
Posts: 10475
Joined: Mon May 14, 2007 9:24 am

Re: Massive Firelands Nerfs Starting Next Week

Postby Aanar » Tue Sep 13, 2011 8:15 am

Treck wrote:Now, we have a raid with 7bosses, first 6 beeing pretty much the same difficulty, and then number 7 much harder (this is true in both normal and heroic).
What we should have is 7 bosses, with difficulty from faceroll - easy - medium - hardish - hard - pretty damn hard.


Agreed. They seem to have tried to position nerfed T11 to fill in for easy raiding but the problem was that for casuals, it makes more sense in a lot of ways to run a zul for valor than try to put together a raid for 359 gear. If they had made the cap for valor from Zuls around 3x140 instead of the 7x140 and had valor drop from t11 at the start of t12, nerfed t11 might have had a chance to see some pickup action.

I guess the downside with that is that people that only do 5 mans would see the 10 weeks needed to get all valor pieces go up to ~23 weeks. (ouch) But they'd probably not burnout as fast doing 7x zuls a week. So I dunno. I tend to lose interest running 5 mans on a character when I run out of JP items to buy. Whatever VP I have I spend and then just wait until the next tier.

Back when Cataclysm anounced that there was going to be 3 different raids for T11, I wrongfully assumed they finally figured out that they needed to make easy, medium, and hard raids all within the "normal" setting and then notch them all up for "heroic" setting so there's a reasonablly smooth progression.

By the end of WotLK, ICC did get pretty old, but at least it was pretty easy to join a pug and go ~6/12 and often take a shot at some other ones. I always thought they should have split the first four (or maybe 6) ICC bosses into its own raid so that once you had all the drops you needed from there you could skip them and not get saved to a fail pug that only made it to 4/12.


I wonder if another problem is that the motivation to keep up your gear (and thus raid as much as possible) is quite a bit less when you know it will be relatively easy to catchup at the start of the next tier.

-Aanar

Disclaimer: I was only 4/12 pre nerf on T11, 12/12 post nerf, and am still 0/7 on T12 :?
Aanar
 
Posts: 201
Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2008 9:26 am

Re: Massive Firelands Nerfs Starting Next Week

Postby Amirya » Tue Sep 13, 2011 8:34 am

valura wrote:All to many times, ppl will not join (queue) for a Zul, because thay are valor capped from the raid. Not even the goodie bag will motivate tanks or healers, when there’s nothing to be gained by doing a heroic, except the <1% odd chance to get a rare mount or pet…

The other part of this, I think, is that people are just sick of the troll instances. I know I am, and I only do them in a group that's majority people I know.

I'm 1.5/7 (.5 because we made decent progress on Rhyolith last time we raided in Firelands), and yeah, these nerfs are too soon. Also, the announcement of said nerfs are too soon. If Blizzard had said a month ago, "oh, and we'll be nerfing this shit in September," it would have been an annoyance, but it'd have more time to assimilate than, "GOOD LUCK IN THE NEXT WEEK, YO."

Also, nerfing heroic t12 but not heroic t11? I don't get it.
Image

Fetzie wrote:The Defias Brotherhood is back, and this time they are acting as racketeers in Goldshire. Anybody wishing to dance for money must now pay them protection money or be charged triple the normal amount when repairing.
Amirya
Maintankadonor
 
Posts: 3991
Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2007 2:59 am

Re: Massive Firelands Nerfs Starting Next Week

Postby Threck » Tue Sep 13, 2011 8:39 am

The also seem to fail to realize that they went from T11 with 3 raid instances and 13(?) bosses to once instance with 7 bossess. That compression has caused issues with raiding guilds and casuals alike.

I do support the nerfs, but they should be gradually rolled in. NOT a 20% whack all at once.
Threck
 
Posts: 19
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 8:54 am

Re: Massive Firelands Nerfs Starting Next Week

Postby Threck » Tue Sep 13, 2011 8:41 am

Aanar wrote:
Treck wrote:Now, we have a raid with 7bosses, first 6 beeing pretty much the same difficulty, and then number 7 much harder (this is true in both normal and heroic).
What we should have is 7 bosses, with difficulty from faceroll - easy - medium - hardish - hard - pretty damn hard.


I wonder if another problem is that the motivation to keep up your gear (and thus raid as much as possible) is quite a bit less when you know it will be relatively easy to catchup at the start of the next tier.



Yes, they should be staggered more, and yes, the gear of the next tier is just a grind away. That is a problem, even for the casuals.
Threck
 
Posts: 19
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 8:54 am

Re: Massive Firelands Nerfs Starting Next Week

Postby Chicken » Tue Sep 13, 2011 8:44 am

Threck wrote:I do support the nerfs, but they should be gradually rolled in. NOT a 20% whack all at once.
If you read carefully that's what they'll be doing. It's planned to be done through a series of hotfixes, not just them hitting a switch on the 19th which immediately makes every NPC in the Firelands 20% weaker.

... Also these names are getting confusing. Now we actually have Theck, Treck and Threck.
Image
User avatar
Chicken
 
Posts: 1597
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 2:19 pm

Re: Massive Firelands Nerfs Starting Next Week

Postby Shoju » Tue Sep 13, 2011 8:45 am

Amirya wrote:
valura wrote:All to many times, ppl will not join (queue) for a Zul, because thay are valor capped from the raid. Not even the goodie bag will motivate tanks or healers, when there’s nothing to be gained by doing a heroic, except the <1% odd chance to get a rare mount or pet…

The other part of this, I think, is that people are just sick of the troll instances. I know I am, and I only do them in a group that's majority people I know.

I'm 1.5/7 (.5 because we made decent progress on Rhyolith last time we raided in Firelands), and yeah, these nerfs are too soon. Also, the announcement of said nerfs are too soon. If Blizzard had said a month ago, "oh, and we'll be nerfing this shit in September," it would have been an annoyance, but it'd have more time to assimilate than, "GOOD LUCK IN THE NEXT WEEK, YO."

Also, nerfing heroic t12 but not heroic t11? I don't get it.


The simple solution to people being bored with the trolls?

Retro-fit a couple more heroics. Test them. Patch them in.

They need to be "shortish".
They need to be "popular".

Awesome
Scarlet Monastary
Graveyard: You have a spot for 2 bosses, add in 1 somewhere in the Graveyard.
Library: houndmaster, one in the Athenaeum (make it pat, make an achievement for tanking it all over the place) and then "Doan".
Armory: one in the Grass Area. One at the top of the Steps. "Herrod"
Cathedral: one outside. The two inside. And the optional.

Give it the DM treatment where you re-use models. Add some new models, make it all 353/359 gear. Update some mechanics, and RUN the PTR. If they recycle models from The Scarlet line up, they have SM / Old Tyr's Hand / Hearthglen / and Northrend to pull from.

Give us some shoehorned in plot device about how the remnants of the Scarlet Crusade are trying to make inroads into the fight between the forsaken and the Gilneans.

Seriously. I could imagine this being far better received than nerfing current raiding content, and keeps people from bashing their skulls against the Z's all day long.
User avatar
Shoju
 
Posts: 6388
Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 7:15 am

Re: Massive Firelands Nerfs Starting Next Week

Postby Klaudandus » Tue Sep 13, 2011 8:50 am

Threck wrote:The also seem to fail to realize that they went from T11 with 3 raid instances and 13(?) bosses to once instance with 7 bossess. That compression has caused issues with raiding guilds and casuals alike.

I do support the nerfs, but they should be gradually rolled in. NOT a 20% whack all at once.



Which is why loot tables are a mess currently in T12

Havent seen a piece of tank gear in a month and a half...
The Element of Forum Hyperbole
Image
---
Flüttershy - Draenei Protection Paladin, Aerie Peak
Klaudandus - BE Protection Paladin, Feathermoon (Semi-retired)
User avatar
Klaudandus
 
Posts: 11217
Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2009 7:08 am
Location: Texas' Armpit

Re: Massive Firelands Nerfs Starting Next Week

Postby halabar » Tue Sep 13, 2011 8:57 am

Chicken wrote:
Threck wrote:I do support the nerfs, but they should be gradually rolled in. NOT a 20% whack all at once.
If you read carefully that's what they'll be doing. It's planned to be done through a series of hotfixes, not just them hitting a switch on the 19th which immediately makes every NPC in the Firelands 20% weaker.

... Also these names are getting confusing. Now we actually have Theck, Treck and Threck.


They allude to that, but it's not entirely clear what they'll be doing.
Last edited by halabar on Tue Sep 13, 2011 9:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
Amirya wrote:... because everyone needs a Catagonskin rug.

twinkfist wrote:i feel bad for the Mogu...having to deal with alcoholic bears.
User avatar
halabar
 
Posts: 9379
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2007 8:21 am
Location: <in the guild that shall not be named>

Re: Massive Firelands Nerfs Starting Next Week

Postby Rhiannon » Tue Sep 13, 2011 8:59 am

Wrong log-in? o:
Rhiannon
 
Posts: 1061
Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2008 8:17 am

PreviousNext

Return to General

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Google [Bot] and 1 guest

Who is online

In total there are 3 users online :: 2 registered, 0 hidden and 1 guest (based on users active over the past 5 minutes)
Most users ever online was 380 on Tue Oct 14, 2008 6:28 pm

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Google [Bot] and 1 guest