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New-ish Player Looking to Start Raiding

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New-ish Player Looking to Start Raiding

Postby Wonton » Tue Aug 23, 2011 1:03 pm

First off, I'm really new to the game (started in July), and this tank is my first character. Meaning, I've NEVER done a raid before. However, I have almost all the non-VP gear I can get without raids (still working on TB trinket, maybe King of Boars, and maybe some BoEs from the AH), and ZA/ZG are starting to get boring and easy.

So:

1) What are the new things I have to know for a raid? How many tanks are in a 10 man? How does tanking work when there's more than one of us?
2) I'm in a tiny guild that doesn't have enough people for a 10 man. Should I just try responding to "LFM need tank"?
3) Which raids should I start on?

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Re: New-ish Player Looking to Start Raiding

Postby Nikachelle » Tue Aug 23, 2011 1:09 pm

Any youtube guides are helpful to read before you go into a fight. Make sure you know exactly what's going on, or at least have a solid idea of what's expected of you. You can also read www.icy-veins.com for boss strats. There are generally two tanks for 10 man raids. It's pretty much required that one tank will need a dps offspec. So you either need one or your co-tank will need one.

I was going to say start with Baradin Hold, but nobody does Argaloth anymore, and he was fairly straightforward. Not sure I'd recommend starting with Occu'thar as pugs can get verrrryyy touchy if that tank doesn't know what they're doing. So you'll probably just want to start with T11 runs - Blackwing Descent and Bastion of Twilight. But like I said before, look up boss strats and make sure you have an idea of the fight before trying to execute it yourself.
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Re: New-ish Player Looking to Start Raiding

Postby sherck » Tue Aug 23, 2011 1:27 pm

1A. Tanks typically are expected to know the encounters before they walk into them (just like 5-mans, what else is new?). Recommend you go view some of the instance encounters at places like TankSpot or Learn2Raid on Youtube before you ever step foot in a raid instance. Then, admit you are a new raid tank, ask for any advice someone is willing to give and execute the plan your raid leader gives you to the best of your ability. Fess up when you make mistakes and correct them.

1B. If you do not currently run addons like Omen (threat), DBM (Dungeon Boss Mod? which announces when boss abilities are going to happent) and a visual threat addon like Tidyplates/Threatplates then you might consider loading them. They assist you greatly in doing your job of being the meat shield that shelters the rest of the raid.

1C. In 10-man raids, trash is typically 2 tanks required for many packs and boss encounters will require 1 or 2 tanks depending upon design. Having a credible DPS off-spec is useful in securing a raid position.

1D. Often, trash packs will be built to have different priorities upon who to kill. Often, say, a 5 mob trash pack will have 2 spell casters and 3 melee. Perhaps the way your raid group will handle it is to CC one of the casters, have 1 tank pull the other caster away and with DPS killing it while the other tank holds the three melee mobs. Perhaps the pack has one "big" dangerous mob and a lot of little "less dangerous" mobs where one tank hold the big one and the other tank holds all the smaller one who are killed by AoE. Some trash requires a "tank swap" where one tanks holds him for a while and then the other tank has to "taunt" off the first tank because of a debuff. All of these strats will need to be explained by a raid leader and you need to execute your assignment and ask when you don't understand.

2A. Right now, Baradin Hold would be considered the "easiest" raid to participate in. Look at those fights on video strat guides (TankSpot or Learn2Raid) to figure out where you probably need to stand and how you need to hold threat. After that, you want to start in Tier-11 raid instances (Bastion of Twilight or Blackwing Descent) even if you over gear them. Since everyone is typically stronger thant those instances are designed for, any mistakes are a lot more forgiving than trying to jump into Firelands.

2B. You might want to look on the WoW forums for your realm for guilds trying to recruit tanks. Some are open to a "trial" period where you might tank for an alt run for them or something but not join the guild (this is assuming you want to stay in your small, non-raiding guild). Honestly, the best way to secure a tanking position is to respond to a request to fill out a partial guild run and impress them. Filling a tank position in a PuG is not as good because the raid leader / better players may have no interest in any long-term relationship. However, helping fill out a partial guild run could lead to a longer term tanking relationship. If you are going to advertise, I recommend something along the lines of:

/2 361 geared tank LF BH/BoT/BWD. Need experienced raid leader and/or partial guild run because I am a brand new raider. Have watched video strats of all fights and am ?/4 BoT and ?/7 BWD

Obviously, add the last bit after you have gotten into the instances once and twice and seen the encounters and UNDERSTAND the encounters.


Not much more to say, other more experienced tankadins and/or raid leaders, guild leaders might give you better advice. If you are not wedded to your current guild, than actually joining a raiding guild that understands you are a new tank might be a path to the best tanking education you can have.

Anyway, good luck and let us know of your progress.

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Re: New-ish Player Looking to Start Raiding

Postby cerwillis » Tue Aug 23, 2011 1:29 pm

A few things that I would suggest for your first raid, as I'm a bit bored of earthquakes:

-Bring flasks, PUGs will give you shit if you don't. Also, armor pots are a big help.
-Don't taunt trash off of the other tank, unless the strat calls for it, or you're standing there doing nothing and he has 10 mobs on him. Likewise have your taunts well placed, as you WILL need them to tank most bosses.
-Establish a marking order, and get a marking addon or bind them to keys.
-Threat meters aren't AS important as they once were, but are useful, most use Omen.
-Deadly Boss Mods, or equivalent addon is almost required, unless you are a purist, and VERY observant.
-Ventrilo is the standard on most servers, but Teamspeak and Mumble are also used, figure out what your server uses and get it, voice chat is required for raids. (also a headset)

For someone that just started 2 months ago, you are already way ahead of the curve. Keep at it and I'm sure you'll be answering questions for the rest of us by the next expansion.
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Re: New-ish Player Looking to Start Raiding

Postby bldavis » Tue Aug 23, 2011 1:39 pm

another thing i found INSANELY helpful when i first started was try to find an established tank (like most of us) and see if you could be their apprentice.

almost all tanks will help someone new to tanking, and if you get lucky, they may be looking for a new co-tank!
if you do find a tank to hang with, try to absorb as much of how they pull, where they position the mobs, when/where they move this will help alot when it is your turn to tank

listen to your RL/MT and make sure you understand the fights.

having said that, Welcome to the wonderful world of tanking!
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Re: New-ish Player Looking to Start Raiding

Postby Wonton » Tue Aug 23, 2011 1:39 pm

Interesting. From what I've read on Icy Veins, Argaloth sounds easier as a boss than most Heroic bosses... just switch tanks every Meteor Slash and don't stand in the fire. Having said that, after a tank taunts off you, how do you avoid pulling off of him? Is this where Hand of Salvation (you know, that ability I've never used once in 5-mans, given my 2 taunts...) comes in?
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Re: New-ish Player Looking to Start Raiding

Postby bldavis » Tue Aug 23, 2011 1:41 pm

Salv does help, but you can also just stop doing your rotation for a few seconds.
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Brekkie:Tanks are like shitty DPS. And healers are like REALLY distracted DPS
Amirya:Why yes, your penis is longer than his because you hit 30k dps in the first 10 seconds. But guess what? That raid boss has a dick bigger than your ego.
Flex:I don't make mistakes. I execute carefully planned strategic group wipes.
Levie:(in /g) It's weird, I have a collar and I dont know where I got it from, Worgen are kinky!
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Re: New-ish Player Looking to Start Raiding

Postby Sabindeus » Tue Aug 23, 2011 1:41 pm

Wonton wrote:Interesting. From what I've read on Icy Veins, Argaloth sounds easier as a boss than most Heroic bosses... just switch tanks every Meteor Slash and don't stand in the fire. Having said that, after a tank taunts off you, how do you avoid pulling off of him? Is this where Hand of Salvation (you know, that ability I've never used once in 5-mans, given my 2 taunts...) comes in?


Turn off Righteous Fury. (remember to turn it back on before it's your turn to taunt)
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Re: New-ish Player Looking to Start Raiding

Postby cerwillis » Tue Aug 23, 2011 1:52 pm

Sabindeus wrote:
Wonton wrote:Interesting. From what I've read on Icy Veins, Argaloth sounds easier as a boss than most Heroic bosses... just switch tanks every Meteor Slash and don't stand in the fire. Having said that, after a tank taunts off you, how do you avoid pulling off of him? Is this where Hand of Salvation (you know, that ability I've never used once in 5-mans, given my 2 taunts...) comes in?


Turn off Righteous Fury. (remember to turn it back on before it's your turn to taunt)

Be VERY careful with this. Power Auras is good for a reminder if you are going to toggle RF. Usually going to autoattack is enough to deal with a tank swapping situation. If your co-tank does his/her rotation correctly, it shouldn't be too big of an issue. This is where it is helpful to have a feel for the skill of your co-tank.
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Re: New-ish Player Looking to Start Raiding

Postby Wonton » Tue Aug 23, 2011 1:57 pm

So is deadly boss mods pretty much required and used by all raiders? Because I'm a bit of a purist - I'd rather not install SO many add-ons that the game just plays itself. I don't want it to get to the point where instead of actually watching my screen, I'm just pressing the buttons that my add-ons tell me to press. If I wanted to do that, I'd go play DDR, not WoW.
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Re: New-ish Player Looking to Start Raiding

Postby Amirya » Tue Aug 23, 2011 2:02 pm

DBM doesn't play the game for you. It gives you warnings:

"Hey, retard, get out of the fire!"

The better version, though, is, "WARNING: Boss Ability B is due to happen in x amount of time."

This way, if you need to do something superduperhandydandy, you can get ready for it - move the boss, move to ready to pick up adds, etc. It allows you to be more proactive than reactive.

Speaking of proactive, don't be afraid to use the abilities you have.
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Re: New-ish Player Looking to Start Raiding

Postby KysenMurrin » Tue Aug 23, 2011 2:03 pm

You can play without it if you have good encounter awareness, but it helps, and there are certain fights where accurate timers make things much less painful.
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Re: New-ish Player Looking to Start Raiding

Postby Crimsonheart » Tue Aug 23, 2011 2:24 pm

theres also ways to check if its installed (not necessarly turned on though). Any decent raid leader will check it to make sure their people have it and boot you if you dont.
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Re: New-ish Player Looking to Start Raiding

Postby culhag » Tue Aug 23, 2011 3:21 pm

Woah! you started playing not even two months ago and you're already on a theorycrafting site trying to get into raiding ?!
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Re: New-ish Player Looking to Start Raiding

Postby cerwillis » Tue Aug 23, 2011 4:18 pm

culhag wrote:Woah! you started playing not even two months ago and you're already on a theorycrafting site trying to get into raiding ?!

inorite? I think by 2 mos in I realized that aspect of the cheetah is what was causing my hunter to get dazed.
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