Are tanks pointless?

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Re: Are tanks pointless?

Postby Sightblinder » Tue Aug 23, 2011 8:19 am

I dont think will ever be pointless, crappy dps has to have someone to blame. that is why most ppl dont like playing a tank, when you have a tank you have to pay attention and know what you are doing. you have to know when you are standing in fire or when to move the boss so on and so forth. when you get into a random troll dungeon you immidiately know on the first trash pull if you have a good tank or not. dps it doesn't matter because most classes can easily reach over 12 or 13k, i was doing that on my dps toons before my ilvl was even high enough to get in those. how many times have tanks died on the bear boss in ZG when there was only 1 ranged and a healer and melee dps wasn't smart enough to pay attention and move out so the tank ends up getting charged? but even when that happens who gets blamed? some how they still try to blame the tank or the healer. now i'm not saying all dps are not smart i've come across some awesome dps'rs, not from the numbers but by playing very smart. but thats the reason why there is such a larger number of dps than tanks.

IF A HEALER DIES ITS THE TANKS FAULT, TANKS DIES ITS THE HEALERS FAULT, DPS DIES ITS THERE OWN D@MN FAULT
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Re: Are tanks pointless?

Postby Malthrax » Tue Aug 23, 2011 8:23 am

Sightblinder wrote:IF A HEALER DIES ITS THE TANKS FAULT, DPS DIES ITS THE TANKS FAULT, TANKS DIES ITS HIS OWN DAMNED FAULT.

FTFY, sadly...
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Re: Are tanks pointless?

Postby Sightblinder » Tue Aug 23, 2011 8:30 am

As i said thats why most dps dont want to tank. all dps believe that.
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Re: Are tanks pointless?

Postby benebarba » Tue Aug 23, 2011 8:41 am

Skye1013 wrote:To be fair... most "tanks" in D&D try to stack as much armor as possible while still being able to do as much damage as possible. If you aren't a threat... you aren't likely getting attacked, so unless you have some sort of choke point to be able to stand in the way (which isn't always a possibility) then the enemies (who are smart enough) will try to avoid you while targeting the people actually doing damage.


And also, depending on the particular encounter, rules, etc, etc. - in D&D, characters tend to have more limits regarding attacks/abilities than in WoW. A low-level wizard could blow all the spells they have prepared in a relatively short encounter. Meanwhile, that fighter or barbarian can keep on beating things down though may not have some of their handy utility things available.

To see what D&D (at least 3/3.5 ed) is like computerized (complete with turn-based attacking and skills that don't affect only combat!) - check out the old Neverwinter Nights stuff. WOW is much more streamlined (and the default blizz interface is amazing compared to the original NWN interface...) and I'd argue fundamentally different because of how characters perform actions (no turns, resources to control abilities rather than # per day type stuff) and IIRC, NWN doesn't have as developed a threat concept for NPCs (that are not in GM control).
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Re: Are tanks pointless?

Postby benebarba » Tue Aug 23, 2011 8:59 am

Sightblinder wrote:As i said thats why most dps dont want to tank. all dps believe that.


I don't think that is true. I think there are probably a lot of DPS out there that understand things the first way. However the percentage that do feel it is always the tanks fault is high enough to burn out a fair portion of tanks (and perhaps healers also) and certainly aggravate the DPSers who aren't d-bags.

Also - one could probably argue that tanks are really the only role that is firmly rooted in PVE. Sure folks PVP in prot/blood - but that seems to be a niche thing, kinda like shammy tanking before 4.0.
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Re: Are tanks pointless?

Postby Lieris » Tue Aug 23, 2011 9:24 am

I don't think tanks will ever be phased out but Blizzard have sure done their best to undermine the role. What is especially frustrating is that they won't make tanking legendaries because there are too few of us: There are so few of us because even in a 25 man raid there are only 1-2 tanks because of the encounters THEY design!
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Re: Are tanks pointless?

Postby Flex » Tue Aug 23, 2011 9:27 am

They can't make a tanking legandary because nothing a tank uses is 1) used by all 4 tank classes and 2) visible.
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Re: Are tanks pointless?

Postby Relwynd » Tue Aug 23, 2011 9:39 am

The "tank" role for D&D has come back in terms of the Defender type for 4th edition. They have a mark mechanic that encourages NPC's to target them since otherwise it is frustratingly hard to hit anyone else.
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Re: Are tanks pointless?

Postby Lieris » Tue Aug 23, 2011 9:51 am

Flex wrote:They can't make a tanking legandary because nothing a tank uses is 1) used by all 4 tank classes and 2) visible.


Pretty sure they could make 1 questline with either a shield or a 2 handed mace at the end.

Alternatively have 1 mace model that can be either a 2 hander or a 1 hander.
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Re: Are tanks pointless?

Postby bldavis » Tue Aug 23, 2011 10:03 am

well i guess they could piss off alot of us and just phase out bears....
and re-instate DW tanking for dks.....

then they legendary would just have to be a 1hd sword/mace/axe
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Re: Are tanks pointless?

Postby Sabindeus » Tue Aug 23, 2011 10:12 am

I remember when Atiesh had 4 totally different configurations based on class! Doesn't seem like an issue to me.
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Re: Are tanks pointless?

Postby Lieris » Tue Aug 23, 2011 10:27 am

Or more recently Quel'dalar.
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Re: Are tanks pointless?

Postby RedAces » Tue Aug 23, 2011 10:36 am

And bears will get shafted ... "hey I have this legendary tanking staff but no one can see it :("
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Re: Are tanks pointless?

Postby benebarba » Tue Aug 23, 2011 10:41 am

RedAces wrote:And bears will get shafted ... "hey I have this legendary tanking staff but no one can see it :("


yeah, but they get shafted by design. None of their gear is ever visible while they are doing their thing and it seems blizz has all but said they're going to keep it that way.

give it an 'on equip' effect for druids like the fire kitties, though, and that'll probably make some happy bears.
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Re: Are tanks pointless?

Postby Dantriges » Tue Aug 23, 2011 10:43 am

Druids get a golden glow when equipping the legndary. :wink:
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