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"Too Many Party Kicks" - Need Explanation

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"Too Many Party Kicks" - Need Explanation

Postby Nikachelle » Mon Aug 22, 2011 6:10 pm

So I'm a bit confused by this. I joined a group mid-run on my death knight, so I assumed they had booted someone. I got into a heated conversation with the healer and tried to have them booted (long story, pointless to repost as everyone's had some version of it in the RDF queues). It told me right off the bat "You have initiated too many party kicks" and the player cannot be kicked.

Now, I'd just joined the dungeon, so clearly I hadn't kicked anyone. Is that message related to how many kicks the entire party has done? (Which I assume was capped at one by Blizzard?) The weird part is that eventually *I* got kicked, which I don't know how that's possible if the vote system was party based and they'd already booted someone.

Unless it's based on how many people *I* regularly kick from dungeons. Which wouldn't make any sense on my death knight as today was the first time I'd even queued in RDF since Firelands got released I believe. I know that if you regularly kick people, your timer goes up and you usually get the message "this player cannot be kicked for 2 hours", but I've done pitiful few dungeons in the last three months or so that I really can't recall kicking enough players to warrant total removal of the system of my account (although I'm not sure if that's account based or toon based).

Any insight?
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Re: "Too Many Party Kicks" - Need Explanation

Postby sahiel » Mon Aug 22, 2011 6:44 pm

I get the feeling the number of kicks you initiate is account based rather than per toon, so if you kicked a bunch of people on other toons that might explain it. That said it sounds like you don't do it often so... no idea, the only thing I ever see related to it is "You cannot initiate a kick during or shortly after combat." Which is annoying, as some bad deeps realise this and chain pull vanish/feign/invis etc to keep you in combat :(
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Re: "Too Many Party Kicks" - Need Explanation

Postby Nikachelle » Mon Aug 22, 2011 7:49 pm

I'm actually pretty frequent with party kicks in general as I have little patience for sub 10k dps in troll heroics or people who complain about others but are not doing their own role effectively. I tend to warn people and if they either don't improve, toss bad language around or are rude to people, I'll initiate a kick. That being said, I never drop groups (which was a condition that would prevent you from initiating a kick.)

The thing is... I've just done so few dungeons in the last three months that it doesn't make any sense. The cooloff period would've been close to reset by now. (And I have experienced that "reset" on my paladin when I frequently ran heroics.)

Seems like you are right about account wide. And it seems to count if you also VOTE on a party kick. Think I'll keep track of how many votes/initiate kicks I do and see what happens.
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Re: "Too Many Party Kicks" - Need Explanation

Postby sahiel » Mon Aug 22, 2011 8:06 pm

Nikachelle wrote:I'm actually pretty frequent with party kicks in general as I have little patience for sub 10k dps in troll heroics or people who complain about others but are not doing their own role effectively. I tend to warn people and if they either don't improve, toss bad language around or are rude to people, I'll initiate a kick. That being said, I never drop groups (which was a condition that would prevent you from initiating a kick.)

The thing is... I've just done so few dungeons in the last three months that it doesn't make any sense. The cooloff period would've been close to reset by now. (And I have experienced that "reset" on my paladin when I frequently ran heroics.)

Seems like you are right about account wide. And it seems to count if you also VOTE on a party kick. Think I'll keep track of how many votes/initiate kicks I do and see what happens.

Aha, I bet you're right, if you vote 'Yes' on a party kick it probably records that as a kick you did, that would make a lot more sense as to how you could get a good number of kicks recorded even if you didn't initiate that many.
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Re: "Too Many Party Kicks" - Need Explanation

Postby Teranoid » Mon Aug 22, 2011 8:54 pm

There is apparently a workaround for being able to kick more than one person in a run (Why Blizzard ever thought that you'd only ever have 1 bad person in a completely random group is beyond me). Switch group lead to someone else and it should allow you to kick another person.

The "you cannot initiate any more party kicks" is completely separate from your own kick timer which maxes at 4 hours now and is account wide.
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Re: "Too Many Party Kicks" - Need Explanation

Postby Nikachelle » Mon Aug 22, 2011 9:27 pm

You got a source for that? I'd be curious to read more.
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Re: "Too Many Party Kicks" - Need Explanation

Postby PsiVen » Mon Aug 22, 2011 9:55 pm

It seems to me that there is a large number of people getting immunity to kicks because of the number of times groups have voted to kick them, which I've always assumed was intentional and incredibly stupid. After experiencing that multiple times I've tried not to think too much about how it really works. I constantly get "You cannot kick this person for 2 hours" when I haven't even done a 5-man in a week.
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Re: "Too Many Party Kicks" - Need Explanation

Postby culhag » Tue Aug 23, 2011 3:09 am

From what y'all are saying, it seems that the kick cooloff is based on your runs, not the time passed. If you don't run any instance your timer doesn't lower.

(this is all just conjecture based on your posts here)
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Re: "Too Many Party Kicks" - Need Explanation

Postby Fetzie » Tue Aug 23, 2011 4:02 am

I'm very sure that you need to complete dungeons without kick-voting anyone out to reduce the cooldown on the vote kick. Kind of to prove that you are really a nice person or something. So if you only do three heroics in a month 10 days apart, but kick a player in each of them, then it is the same as someone who runs three consecutive instances each with a votekick.
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Re: "Too Many Party Kicks" - Need Explanation

Postby Nikachelle » Tue Aug 23, 2011 6:11 am

I worry about the system really, as after I posted this last night, I was able to kick two members from the group. Two DCers. (One even said "sorry, gotta go!" Then logged out without leaving the group.) If THAT kind of kick warrants increasing your timer, then that's seriously fucked.

If it's based on total runs, I suppose that makes a lot more sense.
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Re: "Too Many Party Kicks" - Need Explanation

Postby KysenMurrin » Tue Aug 23, 2011 7:45 am

I don't think I've ever seen a kick on an offline player fail. It could be built in that way.
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Re: "Too Many Party Kicks" - Need Explanation

Postby Teranoid » Tue Aug 23, 2011 8:48 am

Nikachelle wrote:I worry about the system really, as after I posted this last night, I was able to kick two members from the group. Two DCers. (One even said "sorry, gotta go!" Then logged out without leaving the group.) If THAT kind of kick warrants increasing your timer, then that's seriously fucked.

If it's based on total runs, I suppose that makes a lot more sense.


Offline vote kicks do not count towards your total.

That being said the vote kick system in the RDF is so horribly flawed its almost sad. Only being able to kick one person from the party per run despite the fact the entire group voted to remove that player, being unable to kick the fifth if you are in a 4/5 guild group, the kick immunity for people who are apparently bad enough that they've been vote kicked from so many instances. It's all ridiculous.

The rules should basically state "Well if you get one bad player you have a 50/50 chance of getting yet another bad player that you're either forced to carry or glhf waiting in queue again" because that's essentially what it is. I run a lot of heroics on alts and I'm basically used to the idea of having a constant 4 hour kick timer because I refuse to spend 2 hours in a 45 minute or less heroic run and would much rather either requeue or just not even bother than deal with people in pvp gear whose resilience is higher than their dps.
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Re: "Too Many Party Kicks" - Need Explanation

Postby Bladesong » Tue Aug 23, 2011 9:33 am

"Bad" is a relative term, so I'd guess that Blizzard has set up the system to be "Are you *really* sure that you want to use your limited number of kicks on this guy?". Using the above example where someone is doing sub 10k dps in a Troll Heroic there could be various outcomes. It could be that the rest of the group can't make up the difference and you wipe repeatedly on a boss and can't progress. It could be that it just slows you down and the other four have to work harder to keep things going. And it could be that while it offends someone's sensibilities about how much damage someone else should be doing, you still get through the instance with no wipes.

So, Blizzard probably wants the vote kick to be used only for the first example (and griefers and afkers). The easier it is to kick people, then the more likely it is that the kick will be used for the second two examples, which I don't think they want. The downside is that a group could kick someone who is legitimately the cause of their wipes and then by luck of the draw get a replacement who is just as problematic.

Of course, this is all supposition on my part.
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Re: "Too Many Party Kicks" - Need Explanation

Postby Party Cat » Tue Aug 23, 2011 10:43 am

Hey guys, Party Cat here. I'm a bit confused with the notion of "too much party anything," so I'll just leave you with this.

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Re: "Too Many Party Kicks" - Need Explanation

Postby Nikachelle » Tue Aug 23, 2011 10:59 am

Party Cat is such a smug bastard.
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