3 tanks for 10 mans in 4.2 Firelands?

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Re: 3 tanks for 10 mans in 4.2 Firelands?

Postby Treck » Tue Jun 28, 2011 3:36 am

Nefarian IS more complex than some hardmodes like atramedes/halfus.
But if you still havnt killed nefarian, dont expect to faceroll normalmodes in fireland.
They are "easy" compared to bastion/blackwing heroics cuz you allready have the gear for fireland, unlike bastion/blackwing when they came out.
If you allready have the gear your suppose to have when you kill it, then fireland bosses are prolly about the same if not harder than bastion.
Meaning the progression curve for fireland is likely to be shorter than for t11, even tho the bosses arnt much easier (if not even harder)
Hardmodes are a completely different story, but even so the same is true, some heroic bosses might be dying hours after we can start on them, while even halfus stood for quite a while, for beeing a faceroll heroic cuz of the geardifferance.
Fireland hc progress doesnt look like it will stand strong for long (for top guilds)
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Re: 3 tanks for 10 mans in 4.2 Firelands?

Postby Malthrax » Tue Jun 28, 2011 8:47 am

valura wrote:yet some ppl insiste we are a progression raiding group, and because of that we need to be raiding with the big boys when 4.2 hits :?


Then your group needs to be raiding the fights that are progression FOR YOUR GROUP, and resist the temptation to skip ahead a chapter.

This is why, IMO, some fashion of instance attunement needs to be put back in place. Your group hasn't killed Nefarian (in normal mode) yet - you are not ready for the next dollop of content. But the "ooh shiney! n3w ph4t l3wtzzzz!" is too much of a temptation.

Sorry, but Bliz needs to do this. Most guilds simply aren't disciplined enough to continue to work through the progression at their own pace, and instead jump ahead and then whine continually that its "too h4rd" rather than go back and practice on the content they skipped.
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Re: 3 tanks for 10 mans in 4.2 Firelands?

Postby Flex » Tue Jun 28, 2011 9:39 am

Don't have much of a choice really.

Due to starting late, having some attendance issues and a few other things we're about 6 weeks behind other groups that raid in our guild alliance, we've had 3 nights of pulls on Nefarian, got him to about 36% on the best of them before the kiting tank bit it. We've never pulled Al'Akir because I hate that the place is in Uldum so the Conclave is always an "easy kill at the end of the night" boss.

With the 4.2 changes the normal mode fights are neutered and no longer true progression for our group as outside of a few drops we're all in full 359 gear. So for us to have real progression again it is Firelands normal as I don't feel doing any of heroic T11 should be a stepping stone for normal T12.
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Re: 3 tanks for 10 mans in 4.2 Firelands?

Postby Shoju » Tue Jun 28, 2011 9:43 am

Due to the way that we raid, I'm assuming that we will be killing Nefarian at some point soon, and then we will be using the T11 heroics to help flesh out our raiding schedule, since 7 bosses for a tier isn't going to be enough for 3 nights of raiding, and being as accomodating as we are.
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Re: 3 tanks for 10 mans in 4.2 Firelands?

Postby Nikachelle » Tue Jun 28, 2011 9:45 am

7 bosses for a tier is plenty to fill three raiding nights if you haven't killed all the bosses yet. Until you've actually got these on farm, why wouldn't you spend all your raid time trying to down the new content?
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Re: 3 tanks for 10 mans in 4.2 Firelands?

Postby Flex » Tue Jun 28, 2011 9:47 am

Plus the bird boss sounds incredibly fun and just annoying enough to piss off a few people in my raid so we shall be spending a lot of time there.
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Re: 3 tanks for 10 mans in 4.2 Firelands?

Postby Malthrax » Tue Jun 28, 2011 9:49 am

Nikachelle wrote:7 bosses for a tier is plenty to fill three raiding nights if you haven't killed all the bosses yet. Until you've actually got these on farm, why wouldn't you spend all your raid time trying to down the new content?


Dunno, you could be in a guild like my old one - 3 pulls on Ruby Sanctum and they threw in the towel.

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Re: 3 tanks for 10 mans in 4.2 Firelands?

Postby Shoju » Tue Jun 28, 2011 9:52 am

Nikachelle wrote:7 bosses for a tier is plenty to fill three raiding nights if you haven't killed all the bosses yet. Until you've actually got these on farm, why wouldn't you spend all your raid time trying to down the new content?



Due to being inclusive of anyone who wants to raid, we will probably be weaving in Heroic T11 stuff as well so that each night can at least get some VP. Multiple nights of wiping and wiping and wiping with no VP for some of the more casual people and we start losing signups, people start getting cranky, and then the drama starts.

Its the way we do things. Its the way we have always done things. Inclusion is our biggest positive, and it is also our single biggest flaw. We accommodate people like myself who raid 1 night a week. We accommodate people like Hal who raid 2, and when we have a weekend night running, we accommodate people who want to raid 3 nights. Part of that is trying to make sure that there are very few nights when you show up and beat your head against the wall for hours on end without at least something dead.
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Re: 3 tanks for 10 mans in 4.2 Firelands?

Postby KysenMurrin » Tue Jun 28, 2011 10:06 am

Flex wrote:Plus the bird boss sounds incredibly fun and just annoying enough to piss off a few people in my raid so we shall be spending a lot of time there.

I love Alysrazor. I've only watched a video, but I just know it's going to be a really fun fight. And yes, there will be a lot of people in my raid group who will die repeatedly to the tornado phase and go on about how much they hate this boss. Thankfully, the ones who aren't like that are most likely the ones who'll be flying (me and the DK; though with our guild shakeup don't know if we'll have 3 ranged dps any more).

To my eyes, it's a pretty simple fight for all roles except the people who have to fly, and even then it's only bad if you can't do the 3d movement.
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Re: 3 tanks for 10 mans in 4.2 Firelands?

Postby Shathus » Tue Jun 28, 2011 10:28 am

KysenMurrin wrote:
Flex wrote:Plus the bird boss sounds incredibly fun and just annoying enough to piss off a few people in my raid so we shall be spending a lot of time there.

I love Alysrazor. I've only watched a video, but I just know it's going to be a really fun fight. And yes, there will be a lot of people in my raid group who will die repeatedly to the tornado phase and go on about how much they hate this boss. Thankfully, the ones who aren't like that are most likely the ones who'll be flying (me and the DK; though with our guild shakeup don't know if we'll have 3 ranged dps any more).

To my eyes, it's a pretty simple fight for all roles except the people who have to fly, and even then it's only bad if you can't do the 3d movement.


Yah, I've already got the "flyers" picked out and another group of people I hope never have to do that role lol.

While we're talking about that fight, what pushes her from Stage 1 to Stage 2? Is it HP related, a timer, something to do with Molten Power? I've never really seen it mentioned anywhere. I'll find out soon enough, but was just wondering
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Re: 3 tanks for 10 mans in 4.2 Firelands?

Postby KysenMurrin » Tue Jun 28, 2011 10:42 am

I believe it's all time based - in different parts of the fight she gains or loses molten power at different rates (for example gaining a certain amount per second in the burned out phase then gaining it faster once ignited, both from a buff on the boss that you can't control). I think the one variable is the adds in the recharge phase can make her come back up faster if they're not locked down.
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Re: 3 tanks for 10 mans in 4.2 Firelands?

Postby Shathus » Tue Jun 28, 2011 10:47 am

KysenMurrin wrote:I believe it's all time based - in different parts of the fight she gains or loses molten power at different rates (for example gaining a certain amount per second in the burned out phase then gaining it faster once ignited, both from a buff on the boss that you can't control). I think the one variable is the adds in the recharge phase can make her come back up faster if they're not locked down.


Yah, you're correct. Actually had it on http://www.icy-veins.com, pretty well done site so far. Stage 1 lasts 3 minutes according to that.
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Re: 3 tanks for 10 mans in 4.2 Firelands?

Postby KysenMurrin » Tue Jun 28, 2011 10:55 am

The vids I saw were on learntoraid.com; they didn't have all of them and the narrator is irritating, but they're thorough in explaning the fights. I'll take a look at Icy Veins next time I have a chance.
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