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Re: Weirdest Guild Rules You've Ever Heard Of

Postby Passionario » Thu Jun 09, 2011 3:20 am

bldavis wrote:well since i am a HUGE wow lore nerd....
it really kicks up my OCD when someone refers to thier Forsaken toon as undead....i mean yes it is undead, but it is not one of the mindless scourge that is under the LKs control, they have thier own mind and free will
they are undead, but they are not JUST undead they are one of the Forsaken


The Forsaken are a political group/nation of Undead. Just like Darkspear Tribe is a group of Trolls.

Saying "my character is Undead" is no more wrong than calling him or her "a Dwarf" (without specifying clan allegiance).

Sabindeus wrote:Don't care about their free will, they are monsters. Abominations that need to be put down once and for all. That is what Paladins do.


There is a word for people who kill others on sight for what they are (as opposed to for what they do), but it's not "Paladins".

Besides, in the grand scheme of things, all of our characters are abominations against the Titans' will, forever tainted by the corrupting curse of the Old Gods.
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Re: Weirdest Guild Rules You've Ever Heard Of

Postby Shoju » Thu Jun 09, 2011 6:13 am

Passionario wrote:There is a word for people who kill others on sight for what they are (as opposed to for what they do), but it's not "Paladins".


Puttin' my "Derailin' " hat back on.


Yes. That word in WoW, is Human.
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Re: Weirdest Guild Rules You've Ever Heard Of

Postby Passionario » Thu Jun 09, 2011 6:48 am

bldavis wrote:LMFAO DWARVEN CAT FIGHT!
(wait wouldnt that be more of a bulldog fight? ..... :shock: *runs and hides*)


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Re: Weirdest Guild Rules You've Ever Heard Of

Postby halabar » Thu Jun 09, 2011 7:50 am

Passionario wrote:
Sabindeus wrote:Don't care about their free will, they are monsters. Abominations that need to be put down once and for all. That is what Paladins do.


There is a word for people who kill others on sight for what they are (as opposed to for what they do), but it's not "Paladins".

Besides, in the grand scheme of things, all of our characters are abominations against the Titans' will, forever tainted by the corrupting curse of the Old Gods.


So when the next zombie invasion comes, you'll be checking first for recent brain-eating activity? good luck with that.

The Forsaken are more than just a group of undead. They are humans that have died and been brought back to unlife, or been killed and converted immediately by the plague. From the human perspective, there's no way to accept that. It's zombie time.

Living out here on the left-coast, I can just imagine it being rationalized as "Well Timmy, your aunt Sue is different now. Sure she died in that car wreck, but she is alive again, sort of, and you can't hold it against here that she killed and ate Mom. Aunt Sue has the right to do that now, and because she's different we can't discriminate against her.. please Timmy, put down that Thunderfury.. Timmy, no.. don't..."
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Re: Weirdest Guild Rules You've Ever Heard Of

Postby Amirya » Thu Jun 09, 2011 8:40 am

halabar wrote:Living out here on the left-coast, I can just imagine it being rationalized as "Well Timmy, your aunt Sue is different now. Sure she died in that car wreck, but she is alive again, sort of, and you can't hold it against here that she killed and ate Mom. Aunt Sue has the right to do that now, and because she's different we can't discriminate against her.. please Timmy, put down that Thunderfury.. Timmy, no.. don't..."

I don't think Timmy the Cruel ever wielded Thunderfury in Stratholme. :D
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Re: Weirdest Guild Rules You've Ever Heard Of

Postby Kelaan » Thu Jun 09, 2011 9:23 am

Passionario wrote:There is a word for people who kill others on sight for what they are (as opposed to for what they do), but it's not "Paladins".

While I admit it sounds a lot like a Commissar or an Inquisitor (hehe), I think we do our fair share of putting things down for what they are, too. I mean ... zombies? Undead? Pest control. Granted, most of the time we're trying to combat Evil -- and in that case it's often hard to separate Being from Doing. I definitely prefer punishing actions, and encouraging redemption, rather than assuming someone is irredeemable, but I'm sure we've done our fair share of the latter.
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Re: Weirdest Guild Rules You've Ever Heard Of

Postby halabar » Thu Jun 09, 2011 9:47 am

Kelaan wrote: I definitely prefer punishing actions, and encouraging redemption, rather than assuming someone is irredeemable, but I'm sure we've done our fair share of the latter.


There's the crux of the problem. Are the Forsaken redeemable? What are they really? Even as an Orc I would have slim hopes for that.

But at a core level, saying they need to be redeemed implies that they are wrong. In human terms, yes, they are an abomination, and need redeeming (at the heavy end of a mace). Of course, the Forsaken would say they don't need to be redeemed, and they should be allowed to spread the plague as they see fit, and there's not really any middle ground there.

Sometimes conflicts simply don't have neutral "enlightened" higher solution. It really is Red or Blue.
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Re: Weirdest Guild Rules You've Ever Heard Of

Postby Passionario » Thu Jun 09, 2011 10:00 am

halabar wrote:So when the next zombie invasion comes, you'll be checking first for recent brain-eating activity? good luck with that.


Funny that you should mention that. As far as I recall, during the darkest hour of the last zombie invasion, when the combined efforts of the Horde, Alliance and Argent Dawn have failed to stem the brain-hungry tide, it was the Royal Apothecary Society - arguably the most evil and cruel sub-faction of the Forsaken - who came up with the miraculous cure.

That's right. Every single man, woman and child in Azeroth owns their lives to Putress. :twisted:

halabar wrote:But at a core level, saying they need to be redeemed implies that they are wrong. In human terms, yes, they are an abomination, and need redeeming (at the heavy end of a mace). Of course, the Forsaken would say they don't need to be redeemed, and they should be allowed to spread the plague as they see fit, and there's not really any middle ground there.

Sometimes conflicts simply don't have neutral "enlightened" higher solution. It really is Red or Blue.


And from Algalon's perspective, humans (and other fleshy races) are an abomination that needs to be redeemed via re-origination. Perhaps the same logic that is used in the resolution of that encounter can be applied here. Since the Forsaken managed to survive and persist against all odds, maybe they have a higher purpose in the grand scheme of things.
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Re: Weirdest Guild Rules You've Ever Heard Of

Postby Fetzie » Thu Jun 09, 2011 10:06 am

And from Algalon's perspective, humans (and other fleshy races) are an abomination that needs to be redeemed via re-origination. Perhaps the same logic that is used in the resolution of that encounter can be applied here. Since the Forsaken managed to survive and persist against all odds, maybe they have a higher purpose in the grand scheme of things.


they beat me up so I'm going to continue watching them and leave them alone? And who said violence was not the answer :D
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Re: Weirdest Guild Rules You've Ever Heard Of

Postby halabar » Thu Jun 09, 2011 11:23 am

Passionario wrote:
halabar wrote:But at a core level, saying they need to be redeemed implies that they are wrong. In human terms, yes, they are an abomination, and need redeeming (at the heavy end of a mace). Of course, the Forsaken would say they don't need to be redeemed, and they should be allowed to spread the plague as they see fit, and there's not really any middle ground there.

Sometimes conflicts simply don't have neutral "enlightened" higher solution. It really is Red or Blue.


And from Algalon's perspective, humans (and other fleshy races) are an abomination that needs to be redeemed via re-origination. Perhaps the same logic that is used in the resolution of that encounter can be applied here. Since the Forsaken managed to survive and persist against all odds, maybe they have a higher purpose in the grand scheme of things.


That argument would be stronger (from the human perspective) if Sylvanas (sp?) wasn't actively "recruiting" with plague-spreaders. But since she is, that sets up the either-or dilemma.
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Re: Weirdest Guild Rules You've Ever Heard Of

Postby Brekkie » Thu Jun 09, 2011 11:37 am

Moral relativism is an intrinsically short-sighted, illogical position.

Applying moral relativism to undead that are actively doing great evil in the world by ANY standard of neutral evaluation by saying that they are only following their self interest is retarded.
There is nothing equally moral about following your self-interest when doing so means committing evil on others.

The horde were active pawns of the Burning Legion in the very recent past. Their entire plot line is about redemption from being the agents of the destruction of the entire world. There is no way whatsoever you can ever portray the horde as "just as good as" the alliance. I've played both, so I have no bias, but claiming otherwise is extremely selective revisionist history.
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Re: Weirdest Guild Rules You've Ever Heard Of

Postby fafhrd » Thu Jun 09, 2011 11:50 am

The fuck...

I kill gnomes because I like the sound they make as they die, that's about it. You people are crazy.
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Re: Weirdest Guild Rules You've Ever Heard Of

Postby Sabindeus » Thu Jun 09, 2011 12:01 pm

fafhrd wrote:The fuck...

I kill gnomes because I like the sound they make as they die, that's about it. You people are crazy.


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Re: Weirdest Guild Rules You've Ever Heard Of

Postby Sabindeus » Thu Jun 09, 2011 12:02 pm

Brekkie wrote:The horde were active pawns of the Burning Legion in the very recent past. Their entire plot line is about redemption from being the agents of the destruction of the entire world. There is no way whatsoever you can ever portray the horde as "just as good as" the alliance. I've played both, so I have no bias, but claiming otherwise is extremely selective revisionist history.
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Re: Weirdest Guild Rules You've Ever Heard Of

Postby sahiel » Thu Jun 09, 2011 1:06 pm

Brekkie wrote:The horde were active pawns of the Burning Legion in the very recent past. Their entire plot line is about redemption from being the agents of the destruction of the entire world. There is no way whatsoever you can ever portray the horde as "just as good as" the alliance. I've played both, so I have no bias, but claiming otherwise is extremely selective revisionist history.


Orcs != The Horde.

An orc may run the Horde but claiming every single part of a multiracial, multifactional group to be at fault for the actions of a single part of that group, from before they joined is just as ridiculous. Otherwise we can label the entire Alliance as genocidal murderers intent on the ending of all life. After all, Arthas and the Scourge were human...

If being mind controlled (Arthas) by the Burning Legion (Ner'zhul) and forced/tricked into unleashing wholesale slaughter and devastation upon the world doesn't count for the Alliance. Then being mind controlled (Hellscream) by the Burning Legion (Mannoroth) and forced/tricked into unleashing wholesale slaughter and devastation upon the world doesn't count for the Horde.
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Re: Weirdest Guild Rules You've Ever Heard Of

Postby masterpoobaa » Thu Jun 09, 2011 3:36 pm

Horde Vs Alliance... Alliance Vs Horde... does it really matter?

I think we can ALL agree that Gnomes are weird, and sound really funny when they die. And I'm on the Alliance side!

Its a shame they never allowed the Gnome Hunter class. I would play one and just sit there and press FD all day long :twisted:
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Re: Weirdest Guild Rules You've Ever Heard Of

Postby RedAces » Thu Jun 09, 2011 4:31 pm

I really like my gnome warrior ... during ICC times I tanked for our 2nd 10m grp and I was the living cannonball ... 2 charges + rocket boots ... I never stood still and all the healers were like "wheres this fast little thing that I'm supposed to heal?!?!"
And now I'm the fury warrior with the manliest name ever - Ronarr (with 3 arrrrrrrrrrrrrrr)! Always on the right behind the left foot of the mob, always interrupting (yay for 5% Damage increase on rupting!) and nearly always #1 in Deaths AND dps!!
I really like my gnome warrior...!
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Re: Weirdest Guild Rules You've Ever Heard Of

Postby masterpoobaa » Thu Jun 09, 2011 6:55 pm

You sound like a lock i once knew.
#1 dps, and #1 in avoidable deaths through massive overaggro'ing on trash pulls in ICC.
It became a running guild joke:
"What, Alex DIDN'T die on trash before Marrowgar? Whats wrong mate?!?!"
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Re: Weirdest Guild Rules You've Ever Heard Of

Postby Amirya » Thu Jun 09, 2011 9:40 pm

masterpoobaa wrote:You sound like a lock i once knew.
#1 dps, and #1 in avoidable deaths through massive overaggro'ing on trash pulls in ICC.
It became a running guild joke:
"What, Alex DIDN'T die on trash before Marrowgar? Whats wrong mate?!?!"

Your lock sounds like mine, Geoff.

It's not a real run until he dies.
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Re: Weirdest Guild Rules You've Ever Heard Of

Postby masterpoobaa » Thu Jun 09, 2011 10:16 pm

He was pretty much the reason why I installed Tidy Plates - Threat Plates. :D
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Re: Weirdest Guild Rules You've Ever Heard Of

Postby RedAces » Thu Jun 09, 2011 11:00 pm

masterpoobaa wrote:"What, Alex DIDN'T die on trash before Marrowgar? Whats wrong mate?!?!"


yeah... they sacrifice gnoms for better loot ... But it doesn't work I tell you!!!

During Ulduar we had a mage that did the craziest stuff (and always died b/c of that) and we had no first kill without him dead to stupid things... there were times we accidently killed him in order to hope for a better try :D
Fun times!
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Re: Weirdest Guild Rules You've Ever Heard Of

Postby Hokahey » Thu Jun 09, 2011 11:42 pm

fafhrd wrote:The fuck...

I kill gnomes because I like the sound they make as they die, that's about it. You people are crazy.


The Goblin death is so much more entertaining. I had friend roll a Goblin Hunter just so she could Feign Death to see and hear it more often.

sahiel wrote:
Brekkie wrote:The horde were active pawns of the Burning Legion in the very recent past. Their entire plot line is about redemption from being the agents of the destruction of the entire world. There is no way whatsoever you can ever portray the horde as "just as good as" the alliance. I've played both, so I have no bias, but claiming otherwise is extremely selective revisionist history.


Orcs != The Horde.

An orc may run the Horde but claiming every single part of a multiracial, multifactional group to be at fault for the actions of a single part of that group, from before they joined is just as ridiculous. Otherwise we can label the entire Alliance as genocidal murderers intent on the ending of all life. After all, Arthas and the Scourge were human...

If being mind controlled (Arthas) by the Burning Legion (Ner'zhul) and forced/tricked into unleashing wholesale slaughter and devastation upon the world doesn't count for the Alliance. Then being mind controlled (Hellscream) by the Burning Legion (Mannoroth) and forced/tricked into unleashing wholesale slaughter and devastation upon the world doesn't count for the Horde.


...and how does the Alliance regard Arthas? How does the Horde in general feel about Hellscream? Lets keep in mind that, in the lore, Hellscream was violent and bloodthirsty *without* being mind controlled, and willingly offered himself and his people up to said mind control *twice*.
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Re: Weirdest Guild Rules You've Ever Heard Of

Postby Passionario » Fri Jun 10, 2011 12:22 am

Brekkie wrote:Moral relativism is an intrinsically short-sighted, illogical position.


Oh, I'm all in favor of universal moral absolutes.

It's just that one of said absolutes happens to be "genocide is a bad, BAD thing". Yes, even if the subjects of said genocide are already undead.
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Re: Weirdest Guild Rules You've Ever Heard Of

Postby theckhd » Fri Jun 10, 2011 5:19 am

Not really a guild rule, but more of a custom - the raiders in my old guild used to delight in dropping a mole machine on top of fish feasts, soulwells, or any important interact-able object during raids in Wrath. It used to drive me up a wall (which, of course, just made them do it more).

At one point I made a ThatJustHappened rule to detect who put it down and say in /raid "<Player> opened a portal to hell."

That really didn't deter them either. But at least it made me chuckle.
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Re: Weirdest Guild Rules You've Ever Heard Of

Postby Darielle » Fri Jun 10, 2011 6:13 am

If being mind controlled (Arthas) by the Burning Legion (Ner'zhul) and forced/tricked into unleashing wholesale slaughter and devastation upon the world doesn't count for the Alliance. Then being mind controlled (Hellscream) by the Burning Legion (Mannoroth) and forced/tricked into unleashing wholesale slaughter and devastation upon the world doesn't count for the Horde.


I don't think you can really compare the two.

Arthas did horrific things in the name of revenge. Burning Stratholme, the destruction of the ships back to Lordaeron and then blaming the Mercenaries, willingly accepting that his soul would be scarred if he took up Frostmourne as long as he got to kill Mal'ganis, then trying to take over the world and being stopped because we went up into ICC and beat him up.

vs.

The Orcs being tricked by a Shaman who was tricked by Kil'Jaeden pretending to be his wife's spirit and then blackmailed by his evil underling, invading Azeroth, Hellscream fighting to get his people freed while they were in Internment camps, killing Cenarius after refreshing his Blood Curse, being freed by Thrall+Jaina, going off and dying in the act of killing Mannoroth freeing the Orcs from the effects of drinking Mannoroth's blood.

Not that the actions of one individual reflect the entire race to begin with, but yeah.
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