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Interesting Lore Discussion Thread

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Re: Interesting Lore Discussion Thread

Postby Shoju » Mon Jul 25, 2011 1:22 pm

HEY LOOK! SHOJU WAS RIGHT ABOUT SOMETHING
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Re: Interesting Lore Discussion Thread

Postby bldavis » Mon Jul 25, 2011 1:40 pm

Shoju wrote:HEY LOOK! SHOJU WAS RIGHT ABOUT SOMETHING

it was a fluke....
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Re: Interesting Lore Discussion Thread

Postby Skye1013 » Tue Jul 26, 2011 1:30 am

bldavis wrote:
Shoju wrote:HEY LOOK! SHOJU WAS RIGHT ABOUT SOMETHING

it was a fluke....

Keep spouting random stuff and you're bound to be right eventually... :D
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Re: Interesting Lore Discussion Thread

Postby alayire » Tue Jul 26, 2011 7:18 am

Shoju wrote:A.) You're right. No connection, no shared experiences :roll: I forgot there are no orcs that ever were 'slaves' and manipulated at the hands of the burning legion.... That is completely far fetched...... :roll: while on the other hand, the race that they BETRAYED who has been HUNTING and EXTERMINATING them somehow finding a way to forgive them isn't far fetched at all.........

B.) Yes, the Gnomes thing was an OBVIOUS Stretch, meant for sarcasm.... I thought the part where I said the Gnomes thought they would be epic ground mounts gave it away....

and yes. The Dwarves (wildhammer in particular) are incredibly Shamanistic.
it seems that you and I have a different understanding of what connection means. the orcs had no interaction with the satyrs and I spelled it out specifically. one rarely allies with a race with whom it had no prior interaction.
You are assuming there will be interaction and as such there will be a connection.
On the other hand I merely pointed that interaction between the elves and satyrs existed and still exists. you cry out that it's hostile interaction, I'm pointing out that it merely exists.
for there to be any alliance with whomever the Satyrs, or at least part of them need to renounce their ways. If said event would implicate any of the 2 parties (Alliance, specifically NE or Horde) it can go both ways. I'm assuming it's more likely the NE then the Orcs because they have interest in the matter. The Horde atm have none. that is exactly my train of thought.

and yes the WildHammer clan lore seems to show they are shamanistic. the other 2 clans are most certainly not. It's a gray area granted.
but I'd like to point something out to you: the Taurens have tribes that are druidic like Mistrunner and Runetotem. they also have (I'd say that they have stretched this thin) tribes that have recently embraced the Light. yet the Taurens are a shamanistic race.
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Re: Interesting Lore Discussion Thread

Postby Aerron » Tue Jul 26, 2011 8:04 am

alayire wrote:I'm assuming it's more likely the NE then the Orcs because they have interest in the matter. The Horde atm have none. that is exactly my train of thought.


Again, you're ignoring the fact that the Horde has as many Elves with as much of a connection to the Satyrs as the Alliance.
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Re: Interesting Lore Discussion Thread

Postby Dantriges » Tue Jul 26, 2011 8:15 am

IIRC most satyrs are still in Kalimdor with the exception of a few rogues. The War of the Ancients was 10.000 years ago and the Blood Elves never were immortal.
I have never seen a quest involving the relations between Blood Elves, who were former Highborne and the Nightelves.

So it´s seems to be more a connection like the one between Turkey and France being former provinces of the Roman Empire influencing their current diplomatic issues. Not at all.

Perhaps less, if the Bloodelves have no formal schoolsystem with history in class.

The Nightelves and the Satyrs are still living in the same area. Well their relations aren´t very friendly. Perhaps the orcs who recently moved in, have some dealings with the satyr and could negotiate an alliance against the Night Elves. Orc troops are probably stretched a bit with the recent human attack in the Barrens and the satyrs don´t like being persecuted by the Night Elves.
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Re: Interesting Lore Discussion Thread

Postby Shoju » Tue Jul 26, 2011 9:57 am

alayire wrote:[it seems that you and I have a different understanding of what connection means. the orcs had no interaction with the satyrs and I spelled it out specifically. one rarely allies with a race with whom it had no prior interaction.
You are assuming there will be interaction and as such there will be a connection.
On the other hand I merely pointed that interaction between the elves and satyrs existed and still exists. you cry out that it's hostile interaction, I'm pointing out that it merely exists.
for there to be any alliance with whomever the Satyrs, or at least part of them need to renounce their ways. If said event would implicate any of the 2 parties (Alliance, specifically NE or Horde) it can go both ways. I'm assuming it's more likely the NE then the Orcs because they have interest in the matter. The Horde atm have none. that is exactly my train of thought.

and yes the WildHammer clan lore seems to show they are shamanistic. the other 2 clans are most certainly not. It's a gray area granted.
but I'd like to point something out to you: the Taurens have tribes that are druidic like Mistrunner and Runetotem. they also have (I'd say that they have stretched this thin) tribes that have recently embraced the Light. yet the Taurens are a shamanistic race.


The more I read of what you post in response to what I said, the more I realize that you at best skimmed it over, and are just trying to debate things because you feel the need to be right, without actually having read what I posted. You should really go back and read the whole thing.


Here, I will help you out, since you can't do it yourself.



Shoju wrote:My original hope was that perhaps even just a "tribe" of satyrs joined the Horde. Maybe some tribe already in game, or even better, a tribe we haven't met. They break free of Xavius and realize the folley of their ways. They join the Horde because the Nelves don't trust them, and want to KoS.

For the Alliance, I was thinking about Ogres, though... they are REALLY big.

It is a shame that they want the silhouettes to be so noticeable. I would love to be able to choose Satyr / Ogre and then choose which faction I roll with.

Say.... you have a starting area similar to the Worgen area. Alliance and Horde both rushing in from opposite sides, looking for something other than the race that is there. It would work better with the Satyr, because it could be some thing they need to fend off the legion, and you kill the 'lead' satyr in the final quest, and gain part / half / all of the artifact from killing him, and you can then give it, or have used the help of, the faction that you wish to join. It would be a REALLY cool starting zone, and would introduce incredible player choice.


Personally, I would love this if implemented.



This kind of lays out the idea that

the legion is coming (hey the orcs know about the legion)
the satyr in the area have realized they don't want to be part of it
the satyr in the area have something that will help fend off the legion
it sets up the idea of the horde and alliance moving on the area by referencing how the worgen starting area takes place, only in this scenario, the horde isn't gunning you down as you run away.
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Re: Interesting Lore Discussion Thread

Postby Mcduffie » Tue Jul 26, 2011 10:55 pm

Have we considered a "neutral" faction? Like, what if you were "race x." And the starting zone ended with you choosing which side you wished to join, Alliance or Horde. Their home city would be a sanctuary, like Dalaran.

Ehhh? Ehhh??
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Re: Interesting Lore Discussion Thread

Postby Skye1013 » Wed Jul 27, 2011 2:11 am

alayire wrote:...one rarely allies with a race with whom it had no prior interaction...

Out of legitimate curiousity (I'll readily admit I don't keep track of WoW lore) but what connection did the Draenei have with the Alliance? Did the Forsaken have previous connections with the Horde, or were they shunned by the Alliance and the Horde said "the enemy of my enemy is my friend..."? What connection did the Blood Elves have before they joined the Horde? What about the Goblins, other than conveniently landing in Azshara (by Org's back door?)
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Re: Interesting Lore Discussion Thread

Postby Levantine » Wed Jul 27, 2011 2:14 am

The Forsaken were shunned by the Alliance, the Blood Elves were betrayed by humans and had Sylvanas and the Forsaken linking them to the Horde and the Goblins were met with open hostility by the Alliance in their starter zone quests.
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Re: Interesting Lore Discussion Thread

Postby Skye1013 » Wed Jul 27, 2011 2:15 am

Right... so hostility from the Alliance pushed pretty much all of them into the Horde... why would the Satyrs be any different?
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Re: Interesting Lore Discussion Thread

Postby Levantine » Wed Jul 27, 2011 2:18 am

I don't know/care, I was just pointing out there were legitimate reasons for the rest of the races joining the horde.
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Re: Interesting Lore Discussion Thread

Postby alayire » Wed Jul 27, 2011 5:27 am

Shoju wrote:The more I read of what you post in response to what I said, the more I realize that you at best skimmed it over, and are just trying to debate things because you feel the need to be right, without actually having read what I posted. You should really go back and read the whole thing.
you started from something you want to happen then go on from there, I was basing my ideas on current existing lore. Look if something were to happen to Satyrs, Blizzard can concoct anything they want in order for it to go both ways and make it stick, just like you did.

But if it were a choice between NE and Orcs, my gut feeling is it wouldn't be the Orcs. You keep pushing for this Burning Legion slavery link, but the origin of the Satyrs enslavement was arcane magic, while Orcs were enslaved by demonic magic. Also the Orcs relied on their shamanic powers/background to free themselves from it, while Satyrs at best can probably find some druidic heritage. So yes, while both were slaves to the Burning Legion, they are very different as races. Not to mention the huge amount of time since the War of the Ancients, since the Satyrs have been enslaved and they have yet to break free.

When I first replied to you and mentioned that I see Satyrs more likely to join the Alliance rather then the Horde I actually started out with the Ogre part and there was a reason for it. Ogres have more more in common with the Horde then with the Alliance, especially with the shamanistic angle. If you look at how the Orcs allied themselves with the Tauren and the Trolls, it actually was the "oh no .. we have the same enemy" approach, but that was just the beginning of a journey, where their spiritual heritage played a very big role.

Yes I realize that since then Blizzard made a mess of it. The adherence of the Forsaken to the Horde was a big black mystery lore wise and controversially it was due to the Scourge and not the Alliance. The Blood Elves were more neatly integrated yet still axe chopped in, if you've done the BE starting quests you should know that Thrall himself accepted the Blood Elves on Sylvanas word, but taking note of their accomplishments. I haven't finished the Goblin starting area, so while I do know that you help rescue Thrall, I don't really know what else was involved. But none of the races that joined the Horde joined just because "we don't like the Alliance", they have done other things to prove themselves(like in the Goblins case or Blood Elves, survived near extinction showing strength and ingenuity).

Just because lore wise, the new Horde appears to be changing it doesn't mean it will(more then normal). Cairne died trying to protect this very ideals, we have yet to see if his death was in vain, but from the looks of it his son is a chip of the old block(hinted by his handling of Garosh in his short story).

So it's not that I didn't understood you, it's just that I don't see it. Others might, lore is not something set in stone as we all know. It's just how I feel about it. please stop being so condescending and aggressive in your posts, I don't think I've used the same tone.
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Re: Interesting Lore Discussion Thread

Postby Mukat » Wed Jul 27, 2011 8:31 am

If satyrs were to join the game as a playable race, I can guarantee it will be after a model change. Not only do the current satyr models have zero personality (like old worgen and goblin models i might add) theyre also woefully low on polygons. Let's also not mention goat eyes. What will most likely happen is a break from the Legion, from some deus ex machina such as Sargeras weaking just a little bit (ala Forsaken) or something disrupting timespace/fel links/ozone layer that causes the satyr to start devolving or otherwise changing from their current state, along with a change of thinking. I'm not quite keeping the idea together at this point, but I'm sure I'm making some kind of point.
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Re: Interesting Lore Discussion Thread

Postby Dantriges » Wed Jul 27, 2011 12:53 pm

The Deus Ex machina could be a bit in the past. Sargeras lieutenants are dead. Perhaps his grip is really weakening, because well no general can control his army alone. Sargeras is more than mortal but the legion has several worlds under control. So I could imagine, that some guys on an unconquered planet, like the satyr, who play a very minor role in the Legion, could slip loose or jusst leave the Legion of Losers.
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