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4.2 PTR discussion

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Re: 4.2 PTR discussion

Postby Shoju » Wed Jun 15, 2011 12:20 pm

fafhrd wrote:As repgrinds to unlock a pattern to make money with or a mount go, this one is a completely trivial one. No idea why you feel the need to bitch about it.


I'm not unhappy about the rep grind. It was mentioned that I "don't need to go there." My comment was "Well... If I want the new patterns so that I can sell them, Yes. I do need to go there.

Teranoid wrote:I am astounded by the amount of people complaining about having to go back to finish a lvl 80 questing area and the amount of people who complained that there wasn't enough content to people who couldn't/didn't want to raid.

Hilarious.



Teranoid wrote:As Flex said you don't even have to finish the entire zone.

Seriously you're going to bitch about spending what is literally 2 hours blowing through 60-80 quests to unlock it? Have fun then.


I will answer the pair of these together. I completed them, once, on my main at the time. You have NEVER heard me complain that there wasn't enough content. Not once. You are taking two different stances from two different people, and trying to get holier than thou because of it, without bothering putting much effort into the thought process.

The point is, This is level 85 "END GAME CONTENT" according to Blizzard, that is now requiring that I do 2 hours of work on an entry level zone from 6 months ago. Hell, previous Daily Questing Hubs in game did not require you to go back and put work into entry level content.

1.) Isle of Quel'Danas - No other content required. You could, if you so chose, go back to areas of the game to do dailies in "lower level zones", but these zones were also segregated from the rest of the "low level zone" by being accessible only to those with flight, which at the time meant level 70.

2.) Argent Tournament - You didn't need to do a single quest in Icecrown to have access to every single part of the Argent Tournament. Yes, the tournament itself led to other phasing problems, but phased questing areas had no bearings on your ability to participate in the event. You didn't even need to do the intro line to Icecrown for the Argent Crusade, the faction who sponsored the daily questing area.

I did the questing once. I hated the completely linear feel of cataclysm questing, and I didn't want to do it again. When I changed Mains, I got everyone to friendly, and dungeon ran the reps. Why should anyone be required to complete an OPTIONAL LEVELING ZONE to take part in what Blizzard is calling End Game Content?

And before you say "Well this is just dailies!" No. it isn't. They even came out and stated, that the reason Firelands is so small, was because they had put so much effort and work into make this daily quest hub / experience that much better. This is part of the end game content. Like it or not, Those aren't my words, they are Blizzards. Even before the giant gutting of attunements in TBC, you didn't have to do quests in low level areas to get attuned for raid content. The Attunements all took place involving end of game / end of leveling cycle appropriate content. You weren't "screwed" If you skipped Zangarmarsh and went straight to Terokkar Forest, or Skipped TF and went straight to Nagrand.
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Re: 4.2 PTR discussion

Postby Cogglamp » Wed Jun 15, 2011 12:30 pm

/shrug

Things change as do games. Frankly, I'm going to enjoy the new content on all my alts. It's no skin off anyone's nose really. I can think of lots more things to complain about in my life.

I just hope I get the chance to scoop up rabbits and squirrels again as the world around them rages in an inferno. That was the hardest quest for me...seriously. Damn squirrels are waaaayyy to cagey for me to catch.

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Re: 4.2 PTR discussion

Postby fafhrd » Wed Jun 15, 2011 12:33 pm

If your preferred model for getting recipes is grinding thorium brotherhood rep via turnins for a month, or farming MC for 5 years hoping for a schematic drop, or camping the AH for a world drop JC recipe, feel free to suggest it, I don't see either as an improvement.

No, letting you buy the recipes on day 1 from a vendor wouldn't be an improvement either.
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Re: 4.2 PTR discussion

Postby Flex » Wed Jun 15, 2011 12:36 pm

The logical thing is "How can you help them in their fight to protect Hyjal and invade the Firelands if you've not helped protect Hyjal?" This is a continuation story, doing the first part isn't a lot to ask.
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Re: 4.2 PTR discussion

Postby Shoju » Wed Jun 15, 2011 1:07 pm

fafhrd wrote:If your preferred model for getting recipes is grinding thorium brotherhood rep via turnins for a month, or farming MC for 5 years hoping for a schematic drop, or camping the AH for a world drop JC recipe, feel free to suggest it, I don't see either as an improvement.

No, letting you buy the recipes on day 1 from a vendor wouldn't be an improvement either.


No where have I said that I had a problem with the rep grind. NO WHERE. My problem is getting to the rep grind. My problem isn't the 1 month to get it all unlocked, My problem isn't that the daily rep craftables are middle of the tier instead of 'as good as' the raid gear. My problem isn't the abysmally awful itemization of the rep gear. My problem isn't any of that. My problem is the simple 2 hour 60-80 quest requirement that feels tacked on to yet again to slow things down, and force a linear progression path of questing in this expansion that I don't particularly care for.


Flex wrote:The logical thing is "How can you help them in their fight to protect Hyjal and invade the Firelands if you've not helped protect Hyjal?" This is a continuation story, doing the first part isn't a lot to ask.


And you know, that is a fairly logical stance to take on it. I agree wholeheartedly with you on that. And if everything in this game worked on logic, there were be more facepalm and more rejoicing at the same time. When and how the "Logic" used in this regard is deployed is another topic though.

Also, wouldn't the logical extension of that be, "I'm already exalted with you people. I'm out there blowing shit up in other places, in your name while you are here!" Shouldn't that be enough?

I get it. I do understand it, and I get why they are doing it. I just don't like it. I don't like that it is 'entry level content' that is required, and I 'chose poorly' when choosing how to level what was at the time an alt, that turned out to be my main.

Christ sometimes I feel like the ability to voice dislike or unhappiness of something on these boards has been revoked unless you are part of a select group of posters. This is the third time in recent memory that I have expressed my displeasure with something and the attitude taken in response to my stance has ended where I feel the need to defend myself and my opinion.

I didn't bring up my point so that we could get shitty about it, and blow things out of proportion and not read what was posted, or pull out a portion of what I said so that you could argue something that I didn't even say.

I think I'm taking a break from this place for a bit. Maybe some time away will do me some good, because I have a feeling I know what will happen if I don't.
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Re: 4.2 PTR discussion

Postby fafhrd » Wed Jun 15, 2011 1:20 pm

Shoju wrote:
fafhrd wrote:If your preferred model for getting recipes is grinding thorium brotherhood rep via turnins for a month, or farming MC for 5 years hoping for a schematic drop, or camping the AH for a world drop JC recipe, feel free to suggest it, I don't see either as an improvement.

No, letting you buy the recipes on day 1 from a vendor wouldn't be an improvement either.

My problem is the simple 2 hour 60-80 quest requirement that feels tacked on to yet again to slow things down, and force a linear progression path of questing in this expansion that I don't particularly care for.


Your concern then seems a pretty trivial one that didn't need to be couched in a "omg what a let down this patch is, i don't want to participate" post. They are definitely going to put a quest preface to something as big as opening up an elemental plane, and if they think putting those quests in a zone that doesn't exist unless you've spent a trivial amount of time questing in there, that's a completely reasonable expectation on their parts.

As for why people ask you to defend all the bitching you do, it's because you keep bitching about how tough life is for you when others don't see any particular evidence of that. You have been doing that for over a year now, it gets old.
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Re: 4.2 PTR discussion

Postby Malthrax » Wed Jun 15, 2011 1:30 pm

fafhrd wrote:As for why people ask you to defend all the bitching you do, it's because you keep bitching about how tough life is for you when others don't see any particular evidence of that. You have been doing that for over a year now, it gets old.


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Re: 4.2 PTR discussion

Postby Amirya » Wed Jun 15, 2011 1:37 pm

Re Firelands and AoH quest hub, my only peeve with it is the same as Shoju's, though not for the same reasons.

In Wrath, you had to do...5? 6? quests before you were able to start gaining rep towards Sons of Hodir, though you didn't see any evidence of that until you spoke to Thorim and watched your rep shoot from "KoS" to "HEY BUDDY!"

In Cataclysm, for the same rep item (shoulder enchant), you not only have to do 5-6 quests, you have to clear a whole goddamn zone. And for me, I cannot stand questing in Deepholm (it's a beautiful zone, well done, but...it depresses me). So I did it once to exalted, and once to honored, and that's it.

Now we're seeing the same thing - clear half a zone. The zone clear isn't an issue, my main is a Cataclysm Loremaster and most of my alts have cleared up through that far in Hyjal. It's the principle, for me.

Is it easy enough to do? Sure it is. I don't think there's any dispute there...
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Re: 4.2 PTR discussion

Postby Koatanga » Wed Jun 15, 2011 1:41 pm

We're probably coming form opposite perspectives, because I disliked Vashj and leveled through Hyjal on all my toons, so for me this is a good use of phasing.

It shows that the efforts of my character made a difference. Lands that were destroyed are now in recovery.

I recall doing the Darkshore quests ages ago, and it made no difference how many sick animals you saved, or how many herbs you collected to heal someone, because there were always sick animals and people. Your efforts there did nothing.

This is different. You did something.

I will probably be really annoyed when 4.x comes out and there is a phased part of Vashj that becomes the new area for rep dailies, because I hated all the swimming and "is this quest thing on this level, or the next one, or the other one?" stuff. And, honestly, I didn't care about the naga story in Vashj. I can relate to elves and their tree-hugging attitude (not to mention bear-cub throwing!), but living out the back-story of some moistened trollops was a massive yawn-fest for me.
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Re: 4.2 PTR discussion

Postby Flex » Wed Jun 15, 2011 1:44 pm

It was about 30 quests to open up sons of Hodir. A few lead ins from the Goblin town. All of the quests in village and then a few more past that for Thorim. At the end you turn in two quests that bumps you up to daily level and at release of WotLK you'd have to do a few to continue the main storyline quest since you'd be below the require rep level to continue.
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Re: 4.2 PTR discussion

Postby Amirya » Wed Jun 15, 2011 1:51 pm

Flex wrote:It was about 30 quests to open up sons of Hodir. A few lead ins from the Goblin town. All of the quests in village and then a few more past that for Thorim. At the end you turn in two quests that bumps you up to daily level and at release of WotLK you'd have to do a few to continue the main storyline quest since you'd be below the require rep level to continue.

I was counting the K3 as what led to it, because then you started dealing with Loken in drag. But yes, that's a more accurate assessment.

Either way, that was annoying enough (especially when non-epic fliers did only 60% speed). Then Deepholm was *really* annoying. And now this.

I'm with Koatanga, I dread to see the Vash'jr daily quest hub.
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Re: 4.2 PTR discussion

Postby halabar » Wed Jun 15, 2011 2:00 pm

Koatanga wrote: will probably be really annoyed when 4.x comes out and there is a phased part of Vashj that becomes the new area for rep dailies...


Oh dear Light no...
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Re: 4.2 PTR discussion

Postby Taeron » Wed Jun 15, 2011 2:15 pm

Don't look at it at forced entry content needed to be done so you can see the dailies. Look at it as a bunch of quests you can do to keep you busy until the patch, that will also bring some gold coins in your purse and some BoE's to turn into enchanting materials you will need for new items you'll get in 4.2.

Plus, Hyjal will be mostly deserted at this point, so while you'll be quickly finishing up the quests, you'll find some raw materials if your professions are friendly to them. I bet the quests will just fly by.
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Re: 4.2 PTR discussion

Postby Flex » Wed Jun 15, 2011 2:31 pm

120/140 VP for Firelands/New BH Boss boss kills in 10/25 player now. No need to do heroics/BH for 25 man raiders.
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Re: 4.2 PTR discussion

Postby Mukat » Wed Jun 15, 2011 2:43 pm

The only reason you're required to do quests in Hyjal to unlock the new dailies is simply that half of Hyjal is/was on fire before you complete Aessina's miracle, restoring it to a recovering state of foresthood. If you started doing dailies to plant seeds in the Regrowth and it was still on fire, that would just be confusing and nonsensical.
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