4.2 PTR discussion

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Re: 4.2 PTR discussion

Postby KysenMurrin » Fri May 13, 2011 4:25 pm

Until I see a confirmation, I'm going with "tooltip writer got confused with the old version".

Edit: Hrm. The Holy Shield on MMO's spell database is "Mod Block Percent" value 5. The meta gem (old version sitll) is "Mod Shield Block %" value 1. So the spell datamining seems to have it at block chance, not block amount.

Then again, MMO's database also still has the damage proc from the old version.


Of course, the other possibility is that they're planning to rework our Mastery to avoid the block cap problem.
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Re: 4.2 PTR discussion

Postby RedAces » Fri May 13, 2011 4:47 pm

and the meta got buffed to 3% ...
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Re: 4.2 PTR discussion

Postby Cema » Fri May 13, 2011 4:55 pm

If they want to nerf our block (and I still don't see the reason. Are we so much better than warriors, druids and Dk?) they should nerf the amount of block holy shield gives, something like 10% block amount -> 5% block amount
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Re: 4.2 PTR discussion

Postby Fetzie » Fri May 13, 2011 5:10 pm

Jumping to conclusions won't help anybody, this is a change isolated from any others that may be coming, the PTR hasn't even been online for a week. Give it time.
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Re: 4.2 PTR discussion

Postby Arianne » Fri May 13, 2011 6:12 pm

Holy Shield now increases block chance by 5% while active, instead of increasing the amount of damage blocked by 10%.


/sigh Even more nerfs to our survivability. Gain 3% of it back from the new block meta. Wonder what the new numbers are for our mitigation vs everyone else.
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Re: 4.2 PTR discussion

Postby Fetzie » Fri May 13, 2011 6:19 pm

warriors get the 3% too
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bldavis wrote:we are trying to extend it as long as we can...it just never seems to last very long
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Re: 4.2 PTR discussion

Postby Fenris » Fri May 13, 2011 6:23 pm

Meh...cant understand what they are going to do now....Unless they are going to change our mastery too :|

Oh well,we'll see....
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Re: 4.2 PTR discussion

Postby Arianne » Fri May 13, 2011 6:30 pm

I just think it's funny that people were saying that we were going to have to take a mitigation nerf if we didn't want WoG nerfed and instead we get both! Huzzah?

Is there a point of having Holy Shield up now? I guess it's 5% that we don't have to get from gear (398.40 mastery rating). Who knows if that's going to be useful in firelands or not.
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Re: 4.2 PTR discussion

Postby Arincia » Fri May 13, 2011 6:35 pm

Sigh that's a really stupid nerf to holy shield because it was the only thing keep the disparity equal between us and warriors tanks with their crit block. If they changed our mastery to be more like X scaling for increased block damage and Y increase to block chance it would probably be fine. 1 mastery = (.5 to 1) blocked damage increase and 2(ish) block rate% would be fine.

Either way i really hope that change doesn't go through it will be such a massive nerf (going from 59% blocked damage to 67% is huge)

If its for balance warriors i feel its a huge problem cause of how warriors should scale into damage taken as we progress through more tiers.
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Re: 4.2 PTR discussion

Postby Treck » Fri May 13, 2011 6:53 pm

//Its sad to see holy shield getting "nerfed", i wouldnt say its going to have to much of an inpact eather way tbh.
Missread, thought the change made it give 5% block value, its apparently 5% block chance.
I dont think this will cripple us however, were gonna stop hording mastery tho, as its going to be rediciously easy to block cap, esp with firelands gear.
But i dont really see us to be overpowered eather, DKs seems great, warriors are more than ok, and druids, well they might have drawn the short stick, think its pretty ok as it is now, im guessing the folks on blizz knows the firelands fights, and are tuning accordingly?
Its still sad to see.
What i am worried about is when warriors are block capping without to much issues. Atm a lot of warriors goes all out for mastery trying to cap it as good as possible, if thats gonna be possible to be gained from just gear, they are gonna be strong.

Also, everyone needs to keep in mind that they are pretty much setting out these class changes ONLY to balance for firelands.
When the next raid is incoming, they are going to change much again, one way or another, and its very much possible to see the very nerf come back as a buff again, depending all on how the different classes scale with gear.
Sucks if your not doing firelands, since then your class is balanced around firelands with that kind of gear, if your still doing early cata raids the raid can be heavily outbalanced.
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Re: 4.2 PTR discussion

Postby Arincia » Fri May 13, 2011 7:31 pm

My biggest complaint with this is that once a paladin reached block cap we reach our max damage reduction (generally for all intents and purposes) and thus this would a huge nerf to those at or near that point. ( fast math 35% avoidance rest block with meta pre-change=39% damage taken, post change=44% damage taken.) So a block capped paladin takes 44% physical damage and it's not going to drop at all from that point realistically. So we have our max damage taken already. Other tanks will not see max damage taken until the final tier of the expansion. The problem with that is our mastery wasn't done so that we would scale to have max damage reduction at the end of the expansion instead of the start.

I'm just bitching at this change cause lack of foresight on blizzards end shouldn't be a drastic change on a mechanic when blizzard made a knob to adjust it if needed easier (mastery).
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Re: 4.2 PTR discussion

Postby Cema » Fri May 13, 2011 7:48 pm

I quickly made the math to see at which point mastery would become more interesting than parry would this change go live

The parry rating for 1% parry where you should go for mastery would be : 179,8 * ((100/33)/2,25) ~ 240 parry rating for 1% parry. I just swapped a few pieces of gear to see what it gives in total % and it seems that the point where mastery becomes more attractive is now around 14% parry and 13% dodge
But it doesn't mean that should this change happen we should drop our mastery for parry because mastery has the advantage to make damage easier to foresee. Dodge and parry mean spiky damage

My biggest concern is that our 40% block value was here to balance the warrior critical block. We loose our 10% from holy shield but warriors still have their critical block which basically means that warriors would mitigate much more than paladin if it was to happen.

Wait and see ... but I don't like this stuff
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Re: 4.2 PTR discussion

Postby Fetzie » Fri May 13, 2011 8:00 pm

I'm just bitching at this change cause lack of foresight on blizzards end shouldn't be a drastic change on a mechanic when blizzard made a knob to adjust it if needed easier (mastery).


Still, saying "ups, paladins weren't supposed to be getting block capped yet, any ideas?"..."yeah, we'll just make them get 10% less block from mastery" isn't exactly what I would call an elegant solution. We won't be taking less damage and from now on in pretty much all that will be changing are our hit points and threat, and we are looking at the second content patch and probably two more tier levels until the next expansion. As for an alternative for our mastery rating, they could lower the chance to block slightly and in it's place add some block value which would secure a more long term solution.

Sinply changing how much and how often we block by altering a single talent every patch just isn't a good thing IMO.

A change is needed, but this is not the right one.
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Re: 4.2 PTR discussion

Postby Cema » Fri May 13, 2011 8:30 pm

A change is needed, but this is not the right one.


Is a change needed really?

In fact I don't mind being block capped cause it would allow me to focus on expertise and get a bit rid of the "dodge dodge parry parry dodge miss .. " effect. I foresaw month ago that we would block cap ourselves in fireland but I never complained on the forums because I thought "good. when I will be capped I will focus on expertise and have a bit more fun while tanking instead of always struggling for my threat during the 30 first seconds of a fight"

This change only make us weak, really weak compared to warriors with block cap who get critical block too. Currently on the PTR it's :
Pally : Hi I'm a paladin I block for 33%
Warrrr : Hoy ! I'm warrior I block for 33% but 1/3 of the time for 63%
Pally : wait what?
Warrrr : What?



I believe it's just a bug on the PTR cause it makes no sense
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Re: 4.2 PTR discussion

Postby towelliee » Fri May 13, 2011 8:44 pm

I think the change is perfectly fine.

The issue with block capping in most cases was that your HP pool was very miniscule for lets say Heroic Modes. Now with this change, all those mastery/stamina gems can be turned into Stamina gems and we can be Block Capped while having a bigger health pool to work with.


Currently on the PTR I hit my macro and I went from 100.63% to 105.63% so this is a straight up 5% increase toward our unhittable. Which gives us more room to reforge to stats such a hit/exp and also regem to stamina.

Also note this percentage is without even having Horn of Winter or Battleshout.
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