Game of Thrones

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Re: Game of Thrones

Postby Epimer » Thu Apr 19, 2012 2:33 pm

econ21 wrote:At the risk of you thanking me for pointing out that tall women are tall:

http://thetallwomen.blogspot.co.uk/2012 ... istie.html


Wow, ok, there's an actual 10" difference in height between her and Michelle Fairley, then. Fair enough.

I was thinking of the scene where they're both walking uphill in Renly's camp. Catelyn is always a reasonable distance behind Brienne and their feet are always out of shot - it just looked like a really clumsy attempt to make Brienne look significantly taller than Catelyn (and maybe it was!) but maybe I'm just being overly critical.
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Re: Game of Thrones

Postby Nikachelle » Thu Apr 19, 2012 5:00 pm

I thought the same at first as well. It wasn't till Invis looked her up after the episode that we both realized that she was actually that tall.
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Re: Game of Thrones

Postby Cogglamp » Thu Apr 26, 2012 10:18 am

Finally able to watch it last night (episode 3). I think I'm enjoying this season more than the first so far. Lots of tension/build up and they're doing a good job at showing the true colors of that brat Joffrey. Good stuff.
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Re: Game of Thrones

Postby fuzzygeek » Thu Apr 26, 2012 4:09 pm

It always breaks my brain when people stand around and watch their "leader" be insane. Especially here -- it's not like there isn't immediate precedent for someone stepping up and killing the goddamn Mad King.
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Re: Game of Thrones

Postby Hokahey » Fri Apr 27, 2012 1:18 am

fuzzygeek wrote:It always breaks my brain when people stand around and watch their "leader" be insane. Especially here -- it's not like there isn't immediate precedent for someone stepping up and killing the goddamn Mad King.


Right, but that only took place when it was clear that he was going to die anyways. Hence why "the Kingslayer" gets so little respect from those who fought against the Mad King- he only did it when it was completely safe to do so. Prior to that, there was plenty of insane and horrible things going on, but no one who might have had the chance stepped up to the plate (well, so far as I know) until Robert Baratheon's rebellion had pretty much already won the war. In a way, it makes what he did even worse since all he accomplished was deny Robert Baratheon and Eddard Stark the oppurtunity to kill Targaryen themselves.

Plenty of real life precedent for this, as well. For example, plenty in the upper echelons of the German military had nothing but disdain for Hitler and his policies, but few ever tried to do anything about it, and of those that did, they got screwed by their peers who were too afraid of what would happen to them if an attempt at assassination and/or coup failed.

Fear is a very effective tool in retaining a position of power (at least for a while).

Edit-Also, the chracters in the series have an even more recent example of what will happen when an attempt to remove the king fails.
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Re: Game of Thrones

Postby KysenMurrin » Fri Apr 27, 2012 1:35 am

This episode marks the biggest departures from the books so far, but it's done in a way that works. More about compressing the story and getting a bit more interaction between actors who were kept apart (Petyr acting as diplomat in the south was not shown in the books and happened later in the plot) than actually changing anything substantial to the story.

The Joffrey scene was new, but it worked. This behaviour of his doesn't show up in public all that often - the scene in court was a departure, because in the books he abuses Sansa when only the Kingsguard are around to see; he acts civil in public, most of the time. Usually the only people who see him acting that way are his family, Sansa, and the Kingsguard, and none of those are likely to do anything about it.
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Re: Game of Thrones

Postby alayire » Fri Apr 27, 2012 2:21 am

Hokahey wrote:
fuzzygeek wrote:It always breaks my brain when people stand around and watch their "leader" be insane. Especially here -- it's not like there isn't immediate precedent for someone stepping up and killing the goddamn Mad King.


Right, but that only took place when it was clear that he was going to die anyways. Hence why "the Kingslayer" gets so little respect from those who fought against the Mad King- he only did it when it was completely safe to do so. Prior to that, there was plenty of insane and horrible things going on, but no one who might have had the chance stepped up to the plate (well, so far as I know) until Robert Baratheon's rebellion had pretty much already won the war. In a way, it makes what he did even worse since all he accomplished was deny Robert Baratheon and Eddard Stark the oppurtunity to kill Targaryen themselves.

Plenty of real life precedent for this, as well. For example, plenty in the upper echelons of the German military had nothing but disdain for Hitler and his policies, but few ever tried to do anything about it, and of those that did, they got screwed by their peers who were too afraid of what would happen to them if an attempt at assassination and/or coup failed.

Fear is a very effective tool in retaining a position of power (at least for a while).

Edit-Also, the chracters in the series have an even more recent example of what will happen when an attempt to remove the king fails.
I don't want to turn this into something else that it's not but .. your example of Hitler and German military is not exactly on the spot. the SS certainly knew about it, the Army itself was for the most part in the dark, because the SS was not part of the Army. Maybe they heard rumors about the genocides, maybe they had some knowledge about it, yes, but it's not like they witnessed it first hand and did nothing about it. The German Army officers for the most part were noblemen and quite civil. Hitler only started on berating and flailing and showing his true colors to the Army when they started losing in the East front. And it's not like they didn't try to save the country, they did and failed to kill Hitler. that failed attempt only fueled his madness. And it's not like Hitler was like that from the begging(he saved them from a depression and pulled the country back from brink of disaster way before the war). there is much more to say about it, but I don't want to turn this into something not about Game of Thrones.

anyway .. KysenMurrin said it better, only few people knew about them actually turning mad. it's hard to justify such actions to the public, when they do not see the same man you know. It's true however that in the movie Joffrey only seems to be this spoiled brat and acting mad, there is no real scene in which he acts as a real king for his people, maybe that's why we get this impression that he's mad( just to note, I had the same impression, haven't read the books ).
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Re: Game of Thrones

Postby KysenMurrin » Fri Apr 27, 2012 2:40 am

Oh, Joffrey's still pretty bad in the books (he uses a crowd of peasants protesting about lack of food as crossbow practice at one point*), but he didn't do stupid things like have his fiancee beaten in front of the whole court.

*I hope this scene will appear in the series, because it establishes context for another big event that should be happening soon.
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Re: Game of Thrones

Postby econ21 » Fri Apr 27, 2012 3:13 am

fuzzygeek wrote:It always breaks my brain when people stand around and watch their "leader" be insane. Especially here -- it's not like there isn't immediate precedent for someone stepping up and killing the goddamn Mad King.


It takes time to organise a rebellion or coup. However, almost the whole story of this season and the next few books are the different people not standing around but trying to get rid of their awful new leader. Even among the Laninsters, Tyrion is restraining Joffrey - in this very scene - presumably with the implicit support of Tywin. Cersei herself seems uneasy about the extremes Joffrey is going to, but has lost her grip over him.

Bear in mind that Joffrey is young, only just coming into maturity and as such inevitably something of an unknown commodity to most people. Rather than Hitler, I think a closer historical analogy is with Caligula.
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Re: Game of Thrones

Postby fuzzygeek » Fri Apr 27, 2012 7:57 am

KysenMurrin wrote:The Joffrey scene was new, but it worked. This behaviour of his doesn't show up in public all that often - the scene in court was a departure, because in the books he abuses Sansa when only the Kingsguard are around to see; he acts civil in public, most of the time. Usually the only people who see him acting that way are his family, Sansa, and the Kingsguard, and none of those are likely to do anything about it.


This makes a lot more sense. I'd read the first two books when they came out (1999? 2000?), so don't remember a lot of particulars. I'm waiting for the series to be finished before reading, so I don't know what in the fuck we're doing watching the goddamn thing. Maybe because it's fricking everywhere in the geekosphere.

Lord Shithead seems to always be fondling his crossbow, so I imagine they're setting up for shooting peasants. Also, the spoiler avoidance is much appreciated.

I don't remember the last time I enjoyed a character as much as I'm enjoying Tyrion.
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Re: Game of Thrones

Postby Brekkie » Fri Apr 27, 2012 12:45 pm

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I can't stop laughing.
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Re: Game of Thrones

Postby Fenrìr » Fri Apr 27, 2012 3:53 pm

Eh...I didn't find it that amusing tbh. Mostly because I don't give 2 cents about the political nature of my country.
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Re: Game of Thrones

Postby Torquemada » Fri Apr 27, 2012 6:13 pm

Fenrìr wrote:Eh...I didn't find it that amusing tbh. Mostly because I don't give 2 cents about the political nature of my country.


The fact that so many people are of the same sentiment is probably why we have such crappy leaders in the first place. That and the fact that by electing tripe and entrails to public office we give fodder to Lewis Black and Jon Stewart, and owe it to ourselves to give them fuel to keep us laughing.
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Re: Game of Thrones

Postby Hokahey » Sat Apr 28, 2012 1:37 am

alayire wrote: I don't want to turn this into something else that it's not but .. your example of Hitler and German military is not exactly on the spot. the SS certainly knew about it, the Army itself was for the most part in the dark, because the SS was not part of the Army. Maybe they heard rumors about the genocides, maybe they had some knowledge about it, yes, but it's not like they witnessed it first hand and did nothing about it. The German Army officers for the most part were noblemen and quite civil. Hitler only started on berating and flailing and showing his true colors to the Army when they started losing in the East front. And it's not like they didn't try to save the country, they did and failed to kill Hitler. that failed attempt only fueled his madness. And it's not like Hitler was like that from the begging(he saved them from a depression and pulled the country back from brink of disaster way before the war). there is much more to say about it, but I don't want to turn this into something not about Game of Thrones.


That's fair enough.

alayire wrote:anyway .. KysenMurrin said it better, only few people knew about them actually turning mad. it's hard to justify such actions to the public, when they do not see the same man you know. It's true however that in the movie Joffrey only seems to be this spoiled brat and acting mad, there is no real scene in which he acts as a real king for his people, maybe that's why we get this impression that he's mad( just to note, I had the same impression, haven't read the books ).


All I'm saying is it still works, according to what we know of human behavior. Its been demonstrated time and again that its a lot more difficult to stand up to injustice than people believe. As long as he is perceived to have the unwavering support of the all (or at least the vast majority) of the strong men with swords that are standing around in the immediate vicinity, he can get away with just about anything, regardless of his audience.
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Re: Game of Thrones

Postby econ21 » Sat Apr 28, 2012 4:23 am

Fenrìr wrote:Eh...I didn't find it that amusing tbh.


But you've got to admit "Always going on about climate change" is a good one.

Who's the politician counterposed with Tyrion?
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Re: Game of Thrones

Postby Klaudandus » Sat Apr 28, 2012 5:33 am

econ21 wrote:
Fenrìr wrote:Eh...I didn't find it that amusing tbh.


But you've got to admit "Always going on about climate change" is a good one.

Who's the politician counterposed with Tyrion?


Stephen colbert. Comedian and satirist. He passes his hosts his show as a faux conservative pundit... Sometimes convincingly enough to fool republican politicians... Heck, he got invited to host the press dinner party hosted by the white house and spent the whole night grilling bush, cheney and others.

And yeah, he would prolly do a better job than most politicians.
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Re: Game of Thrones

Postby fuzzygeek » Sat Apr 28, 2012 7:13 am

Klaudandus wrote:And yeah, he would prolly do a better job than most politicians.


Most of the problem with politicians is that they're politicians. I would attribute the majority of systemic problems to the fact that there's such a thing as a "career politician."

But getting back on topic.

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Re: Game of Thrones

Postby Fetzie » Sat Apr 28, 2012 8:52 am

I never really understood who that guy next to danaeris is. Could somebody please enlighten me as to who he is, where he is from and why he has been traipsing around with a nomadic tribe of horse riders?
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Re: Game of Thrones

Postby Klaudandus » Sat Apr 28, 2012 8:58 am

Pyrea wrote:I never really understood who that guy next to danaeris is. Could somebody please enlighten me as to who he is, where he is from and why he has been traipsing around with a nomadic tribe of horse riders?


That is ser jorah mormont, exiled lord of the bear islands of the north, he had befriended illyrio (the dude that set up vyseris and daeherys) with the dothrakhi so he decided to hang out as a sort of liaison as he had more knowledge of he dothraki culture and the other free cities than vyseris and daenerys.

He is also the son of lord mormont, lord commander of the nightwatch.
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Re: Game of Thrones

Postby Fenrìr » Sat Apr 28, 2012 9:12 am

If I remember right, he's in a self imposed exile to avoid having his head on a pike by Lord Stark for selling slaves.
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Re: Game of Thrones

Postby Brekkie » Sat Apr 28, 2012 1:46 pm

Pyrea wrote:I never really understood who that guy next to danaeris is. Could somebody please enlighten me as to who he is, where he is from and why he has been traipsing around with a nomadic tribe of horse riders?


Did you not watch season one? He explains his whole story.

*possible spoilers*


He fell in love with a noblewoman and brought her back to his bleak northern estate, and she hated it in the North and demanded increasingly expensive distractions and luxuries. He fell into debt trying to please his wife until finally in desperation, he sold some of his vassals into slavery to eastern traders. This was in violation of King Robert's laws, as well as bringing great shame on the North as a whole, and Lord Eddard Stark found out about it and determined to behead Jora for his crime. Jora was forced to flee into exile.

He originally stuck with Dany and her brother because he was working as a spy for Varys the Spider, hoping for a royal pardon allowing him to return to his home. However he becomes loyal to Dany, and prevents the assassination attempt against her in Season One.
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Re: Game of Thrones

Postby Fetzie » Sat Apr 28, 2012 2:12 pm

I must have forgotten, thanks for the refresh :D
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Re: Game of Thrones

Postby KysenMurrin » Sat Apr 28, 2012 3:46 pm

It was not his vassals - it was some criminals that he sold instead of sending to the Night's Watch.
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Re: Game of Thrones

Postby Nakama » Sat Apr 28, 2012 9:22 pm

KysenMurrin wrote:It was not his vassals - it was some criminals that he sold instead of sending to the Night's Watch.


I've never read the books, but in the series they were poachers on his land that he sold into slavery.

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Re: Game of Thrones

Postby KysenMurrin » Sun Apr 29, 2012 1:36 am

Poachers would be criminals. ;)
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