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Dungeon Finder: Call to Arms

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Re: Dungeon Finder: Call to Arms

Postby bldavis » Thu Apr 07, 2011 9:21 am

what pisses me off aout this is i am fucked.....

my main is a hunter, he is the one that has my mount collection, my pet collection, my exalted reps (for the most part) and the only one with the violet proto drake

so what am i supposed to do if i want the goodie bag?
just say fuck it and throw away 2 1/2 yrs of hard work and long grinds and make one of my tanks my main?

this will also add in a crap ton of shite tanks just trying to get the bag
you will have arms/fury warrior, ret pallies, and frost/UH dks all with heroic ready dps gear, respeccing to loltankspec and going "I R TANK! I R GOD!"
not to mention kitty/boomkin druids

sure it will be nice to have a chance at some different mounts (im kinda tired of my kodo, brewfest ram, or elekks on my warrior)
but all of the things i would want to get, i want to get on my hunter...and dps will NEVER be the most in demand
/wrists
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Re: Dungeon Finder: Call to Arms

Postby sherck » Thu Apr 07, 2011 9:40 am

Malthrax wrote:Don't fool yourselves. This change will not appreciably increase the number of tanks queueing up for randoms via LFD. Not over the long term. Probably not over the short term either.

Just chalk it up to being a "token effort" by Blizzard to appease a few million whining, guildless, poor-quality DPSers.


While I agree with you that this will not appreciably increase the number of tanks queueing solo for RDF, I think that this is a bit more than a "token" effort. I think this is a good faith effort that is doomed to not be very effective.

People play this game for different reasons but I think that many people who play the game are not motivated by "eye candy" pets or mounts. I am not. I was VERY happy when I got the Headless Horseman mount of both my Pally and my Priest because that means that I never need to pull out another mount for them. I can devote 1 button for my "mount" and be done with it. Love it. I would not be movtiated by CtA for any reason.

However, biger question. If you could do anything, what would you do to increase the number of tanks in RDF or decrease the wait time of DPS ? You can make any changes at all, what would you do?

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Re: Dungeon Finder: Call to Arms

Postby Kelaan » Thu Apr 07, 2011 9:52 am

valura wrote:Looks great... but, it's not much of an incentive when your main is a tank, already in possesion of 115 mounts and 115 pets...


I don't think it's meant to be an incentive to most of us. When I log, I'll still run with friends, as getting them a Q is better (normally) than me getting pets/mounts. What it does is encourage people who (whether on alts or mains) *CAN* tank in heroics to do so. You'll see many poorer tanks, but some people would rather have a poor tank to teach to be better than no tank at all.
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Re: Dungeon Finder: Call to Arms

Postby cerwillis » Thu Apr 07, 2011 9:58 am

DC Universe handles it simply by not requiring a tank or healer to form a group. All classes have the ability to be DPS, or switch to tank, healer or controller depending on their toon. For raids, you want a balanced group of all roles, but for the 4 man "Hard Mode Alerts" AKA heroics, you can usually manage if you don't have a tank or a healer. Most characters can handle tanking even a boss for a bit, and healing barrels plus fast regen out of combat makes it so non healers can be smart and help out. I'm not suggesting this as a change for patch 4.1 but it seems to work out nicely in that game, and Q times are rarely over 10 minutes for anyone.
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Re: Dungeon Finder: Call to Arms

Postby Malthrax » Thu Apr 07, 2011 10:08 am

sherck wrote:However, biger question. If you could do anything, what would you do to increase the number of tanks in RDF or decrease the wait time of DPS ? You can make any changes at all, what would you do?

Cheers,


I would eliminate the need for a dedicated "tanking" role and, to a lesser extent, the need for a dedicated "healer" role, too. I feel the "holy trinity" concept is outdated, no longer manageable, and stands in the way of interesting encounter design.

I don't know specifically how I'd get to that end-state, but that would be my overall design goal.
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Re: Dungeon Finder: Call to Arms

Postby Shathus » Thu Apr 07, 2011 10:52 am

bldavis wrote:what pisses me off aout this is i am fucked.....

my main is a hunter, he is the one that has my mount collection, my pet collection, my exalted reps (for the most part) and the only one with the violet proto drake

so what am i supposed to do if i want the goodie bag?
just say fuck it and throw away 2 1/2 yrs of hard work and long grinds and make one of my tanks my main?

this will also add in a crap ton of shite tanks just trying to get the bag
you will have arms/fury warrior, ret pallies, and frost/UH dks all with heroic ready dps gear, respeccing to loltankspec and going "I R TANK! I R GOD!"
not to mention kitty/boomkin druids

sure it will be nice to have a chance at some different mounts (im kinda tired of my kodo, brewfest ram, or elekks on my warrior)
but all of the things i would want to get, i want to get on my hunter...and dps will NEVER be the most in demand
/wrists


Ok... other than some of the cross-faction pets he mentioned... everything available from this can be acquired through other means. Yes, you can't grind heroics (more than once a day) to get some of the mounts and such, but there's nothing stopping you from going back and doing old content.

My guess is there will be an initial surge of tanks, that will tall off after a couple weeks. It'll also be harder to tell, because of all the other RDF changes going in (both the troll heroics, and being able to do all your randoms at once).

The statement by blizzard that bothers me was something about the 'unacceptable queue times' for dps players. Did they actually expect queues for everyone to pop every 5-10 minutes? What IS an acceptable queue time. If it drops to 25 minutes, is blizzard happy, or is anything over 15 bad. Especially comparing to having to put your groups together in trade/lfg and then fly to the location, 30 minutes isn't that bad. (Yes, I am spoiled by my tank queue times, I also have 2 dps alts I queue with on occasion and just farm/dailes while I wait).
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Re: Dungeon Finder: Call to Arms

Postby Shoju » Thu Apr 07, 2011 10:57 am

knaughty wrote:
If you want to queue together, queue together.

If you want bag of goodies, you queue solo and four people from the queue get a tank. Not three. Not two. Not one. Four.

Maximum benefit to the queue is their desired outcome. This provides their desired outcome. Four > three.


And I will continue to tank guild only runs, and forget that there are people that pug in the RDF 90% of the time. I'm NOT solo queuing just because it will help 4 people instead of 3 or 2 or hell even 1 person get out of the queue.

Maximum Benefit gets the rewards for sure, but I just don't care enough about the rewards to deal with 4 randoms on an even semi regular basis, or enough to tell my guildies to piss off.
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Re: Dungeon Finder: Call to Arms

Postby Aerron » Thu Apr 07, 2011 11:07 am

Shoju wrote: I just don't care enough about the rewards to deal with 4 randoms on an even semi regular basis, or enough to tell my guildies to piss off.


And that's really the beauty of the new system, right? They're offering rewards that some people care about, but not everyone.

They didn't make it so that as a Tank, we're sitting there going "oh god, I still have to get my random solo-queue in today so I can get <BiS Item X>." It's completely a matter of choice, not "I'm gimping my guilds raid progression if I don't do this."

Instead, they're offering something that's Fun, but not Necessary. People like Dashdar or you don't care enough to be bothered, and you'll live. But players like Aubade who've been pursuing some of the rewards anyway now have incentive to queue, and they'll benefit.
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Re: Dungeon Finder: Call to Arms

Postby Thornir » Thu Apr 07, 2011 11:09 am

Shoju wrote:
knaughty wrote:
If you want to queue together, queue together.

If you want bag of goodies, you queue solo and four people from the queue get a tank. Not three. Not two. Not one. Four.

Maximum benefit to the queue is their desired outcome. This provides their desired outcome. Four > three.


And I will continue to tank guild only runs, and forget that there are people that pug in the RDF 90% of the time. I'm NOT solo queuing just because it will help 4 people instead of 3 or 2 or hell even 1 person get out of the queue.

Maximum Benefit gets the rewards for sure, but I just don't care enough about the rewards to deal with 4 randoms on an even semi regular basis, or enough to tell my guildies to piss off.


So this change doesn't affect you at all. However, just because it doesn't increase your incentive to solo queue doesn't mean it doesn't for others.

There are some people that are willing to queue in the RDF for the extra stuff. This change is aimed at them.

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Re: Dungeon Finder: Call to Arms

Postby fuzzygeek » Thu Apr 07, 2011 11:14 am

Don't like it? Don't use it. It's not like they're saying "TANKS CAN NO LONGER QUEUE FOR LFD IN A PARTY HAHAHA GET FUK." :roll:

The rewards are small perks that, frankly, are probably more efficiently attainable by dps (as far as farming speed goes).

Handwringing is silly.
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Re: Dungeon Finder: Call to Arms

Postby halabar » Thu Apr 07, 2011 11:33 am

bldavis wrote:what pisses me off aout this is i am fucked.....

my main is a hunter...


As long as they don't introduce something new only available this way, it's annoying from a pure dps class perspective, but not game breaking.

The funny thing is the queue has always been a problem, even before there was a queue. Back in the day, a dps class that wasn't in a solid guild might not ever see some of the dungeons due to lack of tanks and healers. The old LFG system and the new RDF only quantify what the imbalance is, but it's always been there.
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Re: Dungeon Finder: Call to Arms

Postby Shoju » Thu Apr 07, 2011 11:46 am

The problem is, I AM farming these things that they are now giving away to the "called to arms" (tanks) specs. The Solo Queue is BS IMO.

BLizzard: Hey! We are really going to push towards getting everyone in guilds! Guilds are cool guilds are fun! Guild are AWESOME!

Blizzard: Hey! We don't want you to actually "do" things with these awesome people. We want you to still run around with people that you don't know to get awesome goodie bags and buffs, and the rewards that we were going to give you for doing things together? Yeah.... We changed our minds.

Sorry, this is just another poor choice in an expac that was supposed to be very guild centric.
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Re: Dungeon Finder: Call to Arms

Postby Flex » Thu Apr 07, 2011 11:48 am

Shoju wrote:Sorry, this is just another poor choice in an expac that was supposed to be very guild centric.


But as Knaughty has stated its goal is to maximize the randomness in the RDF.
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Re: Dungeon Finder: Call to Arms

Postby Nikachelle » Thu Apr 07, 2011 11:49 am

TBH, aside from the ONE guy in this thread that said he enjoys pugging, for how many is this actually going to change their behaviour? Is anyone here more likely to queue for a heroic dungeon by your lonesome?
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Re: Dungeon Finder: Call to Arms

Postby thatguy » Thu Apr 07, 2011 11:54 am

I think I will. My guild is usually in a raid when I'm able to log on so I'll be taking advantage of this. Then again, I'm already doing this so Blizzard hasn't gained a new tank to the queue. Only people like Aubade who are after the "goodies" will help the system but it's not a long term fix.
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